[ARCHIVED THREAD] - messicans (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 8/16/2007 6:46:35 PM EDT
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I met one today who presumably came over the border about 10 years ago or so and some how escaped INS by getting married and having kids. Super nice dude, and spoke English very well. We were out there in Red Rock, OK at a coal burning powerplant, on the job, 100+ degrees having a conversation while loading my truck. Point is, the guy isn't a leach on society by sitting at home on welfare. He works his arse off in construction, and has been with the same company for many years. It has really changed my opinion of 'lets throw them all out.' There has got to be a way of seperating the leaches from the good ones. I could never look at the man I met today and tell him "go back to Mexico!" But, at the same time, the ones who come here and join gangs or get on public assistance are destroying us. If the ones that work for my dad on the rig don't get 80 hours, they quit and go find another job. 80 hours...I don't think they have time to cause trouble or create chaos. Can we seperate the good ones from the bad ones and just deport the bad ones? |
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NO. If they didn't bother to sign the guestbook on the way in, they can go back where they belong until they decide to come back using the legal channels. NO. I don't care how nice they are or if they are 'good guys', do it right or get the fuck out. "That's all I have to say about that." |
I agree; welcome those who entered our country legally and deport the "criminal element" who chose to break the law and entered illegally. All of those who entered illegally are part and parcel of the criminal element; they need to be shown the door regardless of how "nice" they appear to be. |
Edited to please the grammar NAZIs. Happy? They have the option to leech legally,they are Americans. I agree with your feelings about the leeches, but they are simply allowed to do so by the government. They, and I mean everyone, have a right as human beings to not do a fucking thing and it just so happens that our gov. will pay them for it. |
If you don't mind my asking, what are they paid for each of those 80 hours they work? |
I think you're not using "right" in the proper sense. There is a right to bear arms. There is not a right to not work. I'll trade a hard worker for a leech any day. I gives a shit where either of them were born. |
Why is blanket deportation not an option? I'm sure they wouldn't deport everyone in the same day. Money? Make them pay the cost themselves by taking everything they own and liquidating it.Second confiscate all the illegal money they made here, illegally. Seems a start. |
Actually many of them do. And the subject of this thread is probably one of them. They will buy a Social Security number and use that to get a job. Taxes are withheld and sent to the .gov. But then these people don't usually claim on the money. So the .gov gets free money. And it's little wonder that the .gov isn't so keen on sending them back. 
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would work, even be efficent if done right. But the proper process would not by happy, fluffy and wonderful for those caught in it, and it shouldnt be |
That's my point, I would happily trade the domestic leeches for the foreign hard workers. I dont care where they come from, but do it legally. The goverment really needs to cut back on these social programs, or refine the system. It's taken advantage of so bad. |
Here's a thought for them. Life's tough,get a helmet. |
Sucking 10-20 million people out of the economy is simply not an option. Aside from the simple logistics of the operations - you're going to find lots of places in New Mexico, Arizona, California where there aren't enough people to support the city. Large sections of housing empty that turn into slums, stores closing down causing joblessness and homelessness, revenues from sales tax plummeting, essential needs like plumbers and electricians are either unavailable or priced out of the market, road crews vanish, restaurants close. Gee, sounds like paradise to me. I don't buy the "they didn't do it illegally and so we should take everything away from them." You want to boot them out thats fine but if you take what they rightfully earned you're nothing but a robber. |
So how did this get done prior? Also may clean up some of the crime areas in the process, but we dont want an abandoned ghetto do we. Less taxes, true and less people leeching on that tax money. Also lower demand for fuel and other items a few percent, might drop some prices |
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Identity theft = Felony Fraud (both state and federal)= Felony Has he been paying into Social Security for ALL of the years he has been in the US? You know that fund that ALL US Citizens pay into to help with retiremen...the one that the Senate (now Democratically Controlled) wants to open up to benefit ILLEAGAL imagrants...the people that haven't put a penny in...????? |
I don't think its ever been done previously. Even in a ghetto you're going to have legit people running businesses, trying to make a living. A housing wasteland is going to make property value for miles around it PLUMMET. You can revitalize a ghetto. You can't revitalize an area with no one living in it I don't know of any studies that show the contribution/consumption of illegals in tax-based programs. So this is a toss up. It's safe to say that schools (usually funded by property and sales tax) are going to crumble, as its a lot better to have 1000 people pitch in a buck than have 100 people pitch in 2. Fuel is an uncontrolled variable, and most migrants use mass transit. |
FUCK THAT SHIT! If they are here illegally they didn't 'rightfully' earn a damn thing! Sure, they worked and worked hard but they are not supposed to be here in the first place and falsified documents to get the damn job. If someone breaks into your house and cleans it out are they to keep what they stole? I mean they worked very hard at it and did a superb job, they cleaned that house right out and even relieved you of all that food in the fridge that you would've had to cook. What guys! They're greeeeat aren't they? Swell folks they are. And you thouhgt they were there to just do your yard? |
Choo choo. It's the reality train. There is not a single dime in the social security fund, they've been raiding it for years on both sides of the aisle for every shitty project that comes up. Not just for "ILLEAGAL imagrants." |
Your labor + skill + time = earnings Taking what somebodies else earned ≠ earnings. If someone cuts your hair and then you find out they aren't an accredited barber does that mean you don't have to pay them? Your strawman is burning. |
My wife cuts my hair. Fire out. |
Years back when this problem began to fester into what is now a boil on the ass of the American People, we were lulled to sleep by the folks who used exactly the opposite argument to convince us that the influx of illegals posed no problems at all for our society. Presently the very same individuals now tell us that the problem is "suddenly" too big to be solved and we have no recourse but to cowtow to the illegals who sneaked into our country over the years. We were told that the illegals only take jobs that Americans refused to do; except they now include skilled trades such as plumbers and electricians who used to be able to find work at wages with which they were able to support their families. With an American standard of living. The word which describes the tactics used by those who llulled the nation to sleep as the problem grew to enormous proportions, and who now try to frighten the American people into believeing that the problem is to big to address since there are too many invaders here, and the country can't survive without their sevices is: subversion. 
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You're right; we don't need no fucking laws. Everybody just takes what they want. 
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I'm sure she does a fine job. And if one of the neighbors came over and offered her 5 bucks to trim her sons hair and she took it the state cosmetology board would nail her to the wall for thousands of dollars. How jolly. Does this still fall under "WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?" |
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My mother-in-law and father-in-law came here from Mexico legally. Why should I cut people who didn't any slack or give them extra credit for not being a welfare leech? What would happen to me if I was caught in Mexico illegally? What happens to Guatemalans caught in Mexico illegally? |
Nope,she has a liscense. Fire still out. Try again. On top of that she does all her cuts for free so no taxes. She does it for fun while remaining liscensed.. Try putting some tread on those tires so you get traction next time. |
Look, I have no problem with securing the border. But you're truly living in some happy candyland with singing unicorns if you think a mass deportation scheme has any chance of working, and wouldn't cause havoc. Fix the border. Tell the people here illegally that they have ONE SHOT. Get pulled over for DUI, shoplifting, anything and your ass is gone and absolutely 100% not coming back. This is really the only option you have. If you go into parts of LA or El Paso and start loading people onto trucks then you better cue up the bagpipers because a lot of blue uniforms are going into the ground. Looking at the problem without blinders on isn't kowtowing. No, point blank, lots of places in the US can't survive without the illegal immigrant population. No amount of holding your breath and wishing it weren't so will change the fact. |
My question to the OP still remains unanswered. What are the ones who work for you dad paid for each of those 80 hours/week that they work? While we're at it, let's bring back the eighty hour week for everyone and send our wives and kids back to the sweatshops; those lazy Americans need to compete for jobs with the swell, hardworking illegals you know. |
Basic respect for human rights and dignity are precisely why we are NOT a third-world country. |
I'm not sure you've thought that one through very well. Here's the flip side to that arguement. "Legal" Mexican workers that are here get SS#'s to work. They usually work here for 10-15 years so that they can go back to Mexico to retire, NEVER TO SEE A SINGLE PENNY FROM THE SS SYSTEM THEY PAID INTO. On the other hand "illegals" that "steal" a SS# to work, usually end up PAYING INTO someone elses SS "account" (although we no that no actual account exsists...) Again they'll never see a dime of that money, but someone else will... Last time I checked the definition of STEALING, it meant to TAKE something from someone, not give without re-payment... Now, FTIW Democrats are nuts for wanting to give "illegals" access to the SS program, and they'd be nuts to WANT to be in the SS system. It's a freaking scam in the highest order. The Dems just want more $$$$$$$ to spend..... |
Look. You can circumstance you way out of this all you want. You still haven't answered any of the questions. The exact scenario I asked you about happens with some regularity. Since you can't answer the general question without invalidating your fed opinion I'll assume you'll keep side stepping. |
Read what I have posted and then look in the mirror. 
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Oh right. I'm subversive, no doubt a liberal-hippy-democrat-moonbat-fucktard-apologist-immigrationist-jyhadist-socialist-communist-nazi-homosexual Another classic ARFcom rhetorical strategy.  |
Maybe you're just misguided.
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| OK I will give you the ss scam...I don't figure I will ever see a penny. But Identity Theft...you need to study some...granted it will vary by state...consists of willfully obtaining, recording or transferring personal identifying information of another person without the authorization or consent of that person and with the intent to defraud that person or another....so payment has NOTHING to do with identity theft. And hopefully for the victem his/her credit won't be hurt and the IRS doesn't come after them because of the income that they didn't claim because some other person was working using their personal information. |
It's easy to reconcile these feelings when you look at certain full auto, SBR, supressor friendly countries that severely restrict or even disallow immigration.. |
Every single attempt to establish some kind of guest worker ID program is met by choruses of "you're rewarding people for breaking the law!" |
Not so; the bracero program worked quite well; of course the braceros entered the country legally and the jobs performed by them consisted of farm labor rather than replacing and/or driving down the wages of American skilled tradesmen, meatpackers factory workers and others. You yourself, stated that the illegal workers are necessary in areas where American skilled tradesmen are being priced out of the market. They're being priced out of the market by illegal invaders who will work 80 hours a week for crap, and eventually, since Americans won't be able to find skilled work at American wages, fewer and fewer will spend the time necessary to train themselves and enter the trades. Then there will indeed be a shortage of those skilled American workers. Your friends the illegals will then be needed to fill the gap. They cause the problem and according to individuals who think such as yourself, they become the only "solution". Illegal aliens are our salvation, how did our country exist before we let them over run us? Oh, and the guest workers under the bracero program went home when their work was done and reentered legally when they were needed again. |
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The point is you equivocated stealing with earning, and then equivocated stealing with being and working here illegally. The question is, who did they steal from - what "preexisting" property did they steal by coming up here and doing carpentry? Or do you just think you're entitled to a job? Your argument of a black and white interpretation of "illegal" is the same philosophy that landed a 15-year old girl in trouble for operating a successful hair braiding studio without a license. The state cosmetology board stripped here of all her earnings because she wasn't licensed. There's was the same logic you used "what part of 'illegal' don't you understand?" If you believe people aren't entitled to the product of THEIR OWN labor then you're in the business of slavery. That's like saying someone should forfeit a days pay if they jaywalk on their way to work. What part of illegal don't you understand? |