.45 GAP > General Discussion

Posted: 8/14/2007 5:14:20 PM EDT

What the hell is it? How does it compare to .45ACP? More power? Less power? Superior ballistics? What is this stuff...and why did Glock chamber a pistol in it?

Posted: 8/14/2007 5:15:17 PM EDT

[#1]

It's an answer to a question no one asked.

Posted: 8/14/2007 5:29:09 PM EDT

[#2]

Stick a Fork in it, it's done.

Posted: 8/14/2007 5:29:43 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
the grip sizes are not THAT different from 45acp and the cost just doesn't justify it in my mind

I completely disagree.

The difference between a G21 (.45 ACP) and a G17 (9mm) is huge in my opinion. The .45 GAP is built on the same size frame as a G17.

I like the big Glocks too (see user name), but I certainly prefer the G17/G19/G26 sized pistols (in .40 S&W of course) grip.

Posted: 8/14/2007 5:32:16 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the grip sizes are not THAT different from 45acp and the cost just doesn't justify it in my mind

I completely disagree.

The difference between a G21 (.45 ACP) and a G17 (9mm) is huge in my opinion. The .45 GAP is built on the same size frame as a G17.

I like the big Glocks too (see user name), but I certainly prefer the G17/G19/G26 sized pistols (in .40 S&W of course) grip.

Gaston kinda threw all that out the window though when the G21SF was introduced. Admittedly, I haven't held an SF yet, but from what I've read it's noticeable compared to a normal G21.

Posted: 8/14/2007 5:55:16 PM EDT

[#5]

Well my department just went with the GAP. Give it a couple of months and we'll see how it works.

Posted: 8/14/2007 5:57:40 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Well my department just went with the GAP. Give it a couple of months and we'll see how it works.

are you kidding or joking or serious?

If you are serious I would like to hear their rationalization for it.

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:07:26 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well my department just went with the GAP. Give it a couple of months and we'll see how it works.

are you kidding or joking or serious?

If you are serious I would like to hear their rationalization for it.

New York State Police adopted 45 gap. It let Glock use their regular size frames and get 45 acp performance. I laughed when I first saw it unveiled at the Shot Show but I suspect it's here to stay if they are getting large departments to accept it. What little I have heard so far has been positive. I'm tempted to get one.

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:22:50 PM EDT

[#8]

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:26:17 PM EDT

[#9]

Notice that the comparison chart does NOT list any .45acp +P.

Also, .45acp runs at a lower pressure then GAP rounds, something else that is not mentioned all to often in the magazines.

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:27:27 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the grip sizes are not THAT different from 45acp and the cost just doesn't justify it in my mind

I completely disagree.

The difference between a G21 (.45 ACP) and a G17 (9mm) is huge in my opinion. The .45 GAP is built on the same size frame as a G17.

I like the big Glocks too (see user name), but I certainly prefer the G17/G19/G26 sized pistols (in .40 S&W of course) grip.

Gaston kinda threw all that out the window though when the G21SF was introduced. Admittedly, I haven't held an SF yet, but from what I've read it's noticeable compared to a normal G21.

I've held both at the same time, I wasn't impressed that there was that huge of a noticeable difference.

+1

I own a G17, G20, and the new G21SF.

To be PERFECTLY honest, I went to the store to get a G21.

I didn't even know it was an SF until a couple of weeks later.
(gun shop swapped the one I picked for this one, without telling me)
I didn't notice the difference between it's frame and my G20.

I suppose for someone who was borderline on not liking the full size frame,
the G21SF is a great design change. But I wasn't borderline. I like the full size frame.

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:28:03 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
img71.imageshack.us/img71/6091/xdmotivate6ce.jpg

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:30:15 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Gaston kinda threw all that out the window though when the G21SF was introduced. Admittedly, I haven't held an SF yet, but from what I've read it's noticeable compared to a normal G21.

I honestly couldn't tell the difference either by looking at them side by side or holding them.

Unless I happened to be holding a standard-sized G21 with an ambi mag release and a picatinny rail...?

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:33:40 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Notice that the comparison chart does NOT list any .45acp +P.

Also, .45acp runs at a lower pressure then GAP rounds, something else that is not mentioned all to often in the magazines.

Yep.

Shorter case means that the .45 GAP runs roughly the same chamber pressures as the .45 ACP +P.

Still, it's 10,000 psi less than the .40 S&W and that can't be bad when we're talking Glocks!!

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:35:45 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Gaston kinda threw all that out the window though when the G21SF was introduced. Admittedly, I haven't held an SF yet, but from what I've read it's noticeable compared to a normal G21.

I honestly couldn't tell the difference either by looking at them side by side or holding them.

Unless I happened to be holding a standard-sized G21 with an ambi mag release and a picatinny rail...?

There's no such animal that I know. Ambi mag release + picatinny rail = G21SF.

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:45:02 PM EDT

[#15]

Cartridge:  45 Glock Auto
Load Type:  Pistol 
 Starting Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Maximum Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Order BW Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure       

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
185 GR. HDY XTP  185  Longshot  .451"  1.060"  6.5  923  16,400 PSI  7.5  1075  22,500 PSI        
185 GR. HDY XTP  185  HS-6      .451"  1.060"  8.0  890  17,700 PSI  9.0  1017  22,500 PSI        
185 GR. HDY XTP  185  Universal .451"  1.060"  5.5  864  17,700 PSI  6.3  1027  22,300 PSI        
185 GR. HDY XTP  185  HP-38     .451"  1.060"  4.8  841  18,200 PSI  5.5   951  21,500 PSI        
185 GR. HDY XTP  185  Titegroup .451"  1.060"  4.3  875  18,200 PSI  4.9   974  21,300 PSI        
185 GR. HDY XTP  185  Clays     .451"  1.060"  3.7  816  18,800 PSI  4.1   881  21,400 PSI        
185 GR. HDY XTP  185  231       .451"  1.060"  4.8  841  18,200 PSI  5.5   951  21,500 PSI

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

Cartridge:  45 ACP
Load Type:  Pistol 
 Starting Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Maximum Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Order BW Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure       

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
185 GR. HDY JSWC  185  Longshot  .451"  1.195"  7.2  919  11,300 CUP  8.2  1044  17,000 CUP        
185 GR. HDY JSWC  185  HS-6      .451"  1.195"  8.6  888  12,200 CUP  9.5   996  16,800 CUP        
185 GR. HDY JSWC  185  Universal .451"  1.195"  6.0  908  13,100 CUP  6.4   977  16,800 CUP        
185 GR. HDY JSWC  185  HP-38     .451"  1.195"  5.0  762  12,000 CUP  5.9   906  15,800 CUP        
185 GR. HDY JSWC  185  Titegroup .451"  1.195"  5.0  892  14,600 CUP  5.5   956  17,000 CUP        
185 GR. HDY JSWC  185  Clays     .451"  1.195"  4.5  855  14,500 CUP  4.9   981  17,400 CUP        
185 GR. HDY JSWC  185  231       .451"  1.195"  5.0  762  12,000 CUP  5.9   906  15,800 CUP         
185 GR. JHP       185  WSF       .451"  1.275"  7.2  920  15,600 PSI  7.9  1035  19,700 PSI        
185 GR. JHP       185  WST       .451"  1.275"  5.1  875  17,100 PSI  5.6   935  19,800 PSI        
185 GR. JSWC      185  WSF       .451"  1.275"  6.0  775  12,800 PSI  7.0   950  17,600 PSI        
185 GR. JSWC      185  WST       .451"  1.275"  4.3  745  13,400 PSI  5.3   890  19,000 PSI

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:47:24 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
It's an answer to a question no one asked.

Also known as a "Fad."

It'll pass like many other wildcats. It would have had no popularity if not for Glock pushing it in everyone's faces.

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:51:03 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Notice that the comparison chart does NOT list any .45acp +P.

First thing I noticed. Wondered where the Ranger +P was...

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:53:52 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's an answer to a question no one asked.

Also known as a "Fad."

It'll pass like many other wildcats. It would have had no popularity if not for Glock pushing it in everyone's faces.

You call this popular?

Posted: 8/14/2007 6:55:46 PM EDT

[#19]

PA State police have also adopted the 45 GAP. Glock is probably giving the GAP pistols to the dept for free as a promotion and then selling the current trade-ins on the market.

Posted: 8/14/2007 7:06:18 PM EDT

[#20]

I thought the Georgia State Patrol was suppose to go GAP as well.

Posted: 8/14/2007 7:08:08 PM EDT

[#21]

I have an XD in .45 GAP if anyone would like to trade for it. I'll consider any .45 ACP pistol.

Posted: 8/15/2007 4:25:28 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well my department just went with the GAP. Give it a couple of months and we'll see how it works.

are you kidding or joking or serious?

If you are serious I would like to hear their rationalization for it.

No, I'm not kidding at all. Our current weapons are getting old, plus we've had several shootings were the 180 gr SXT 40's did not perform. One of the last shootings I was talking to the ER Dr. and she asked, "What are you guys using? Full metal jackets?" I know she wasn't impressed at all with the wounds that the 40 produced. Probably the bottom line for their rationalization was a damn good deal from Glock. One interesting this is that the supplier will give officers the department's price for ammo so it won't be to cost prohibitive to practice.

Posted: 8/15/2007 4:35:19 AM EDT

[#23]

Your in PA I'm In NJ, If you accumulate brass & want to off it let me know. I reload & can always use it.

Thanks, Rick

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well my department just went with the GAP. Give it a couple of months and we'll see how it works.

are you kidding or joking or serious?

If you are serious I would like to hear their rationalization for it.

No, I'm not kidding at all. Our current weapons are getting old, plus we've had several shootings were the 180 gr SXT 40's did not perform. One of the last shootings I was talking to the ER Dr. and she asked, "What are you guys using? Full metal jackets?" I know she wasn't impressed at all with the wounds that the 40 produced. Probably the bottom line for their rationalization was a damn good deal from Glock. One interesting this is that the supplier will give officers the department's price for ammo so it won't be to cost prohibitive to practice.

Posted: 8/15/2007 10:55:37 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Your in PA I'm In NJ, If you accumulate brass & want to off it let me know. I reload & can always use it.

Thanks, Rick

Sorry Rick, I'm a reloader too!

Posted: 8/15/2007 12:09:06 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well my department just went with the GAP. Give it a couple of months and we'll see how it works.

are you kidding or joking or serious?

If you are serious I would like to hear their rationalization for it.

NYSP just went from the G17/19/26 (9mm) plaform to the G37/38/39 (45 GAP) platform late this spring. Already one officer involved shooting with the new round and a confirmed kill.

About a month ago, a female trooper 2 days off of maternity leave was hit by a perp in the shoulder with a 50. cal muzzleloader. She drew her weapon, fired once hitting the perp almost perfectly center mass, high. Hit him in the trachea.

If im not mistaken, Georgia State Police and several other GA State LE agencies adopted the G37 before NYSP did.

Posted: 8/15/2007 12:19:16 PM EDT

[#26]

The .45 GAP is perfect for a service weapon, and it'll dovetail nicely with my Chief's Special in .356 TSW.

Of course, I just have this one box of ammo...

Posted: 8/15/2007 12:33:46 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well my department just went with the GAP. Give it a couple of months and we'll see how it works.

are you kidding or joking or serious?

If you are serious I would like to hear their rationalization for it.

No, I'm not kidding at all. Our current weapons are getting old, plus we've had several shootings were the 180 gr SXT 40's did not perform. One of the last shootings I was talking to the ER Dr. and she asked, "What are you guys using? Full metal jackets?" I know she wasn't impressed at all with the wounds that the 40 produced. Probably the bottom line for their rationalization was a damn good deal from Glock. One interesting this is that the supplier will give officers the department's price for ammo so it won't be to cost prohibitive to practice.

thanks for answering my question. i always looked at the GAP and the .40 as pretty close in performance. Guess I may need to rethink that. Also I suppose the supplier deal on ammo will offset what I saw as a big negative.

All in all I believe i will stick with the XD45 for a polymer big bore.

Thanks again for the info.

Posted: 8/15/2007 1:15:15 PM EDT

[#28]

If Springfield Armory would ever come out with their compact 1911 in .45 GAP shown the May 2005 American Rifleman I would get one. I like the idea of a shrunken 1911 for concealed carry. Para Ordnance makes one now, but it only comes with the double action trigger and is called the Carry GAP. .45 ballistics in a 9mm size package seems like a good idea to me.

Posted: 8/15/2007 1:24:47 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

About a month ago, a female trooper 2 days off of maternity leave was hit by a perp in the shoulder with a 50. cal muzzleloader. She drew her weapon, fired once hitting the perp almost perfectly center mass, high. Hit him in the trachea.

If that's the one I'm thinking of she shot him later. She initially got hit and went down. He walked out and put the gun to her and asked if she "Had had enough"

More cops arrived and I think he was ordered onto the ground and she shot him at some point later on as he started to get back up.

edit at least that's as much as I could get out of the abysmal article in the Watertown Daily Times.

Posted: 8/15/2007 1:35:06 PM EDT

[#30]

As already stated the Georgia State Patrol is switching to the 45Gap as well. The reason being that they can maintain the grip frames of the 17 and 19 to accomodate all the varying sizes of officers, but have a .45 size bullet. The ballistics of the 45gap aren't that much less than a 45ACP from what I've seen...

I still don't see it replacing the 45acp no matter how many departments go to it...

as to why Glock did it? I have no idea... other than an attempt to get a proprietary cartridge and handgun that would sweep the world by storm, and hasn't yet...

Posted: 8/15/2007 3:36:06 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

About a month ago, a female trooper 2 days off of maternity leave was hit by a perp in the shoulder with a 50. cal muzzleloader. She drew her weapon, fired once hitting the perp almost perfectly center mass, high. Hit him in the trachea.

If that's the one I'm thinking of she shot him later. She initially got hit and went down. He walked out and put the gun to her and asked if she "Had had enough"

More cops arrived and I think he was ordered onto the ground and she shot him at some point later on as he started to get back up.

edit at least that's as much as I could get out of the abysmal article in the Watertown Daily Times.

Hmmm I heard differently from one of the Troop T guys I work with. I guess thats what you get for having your ear to the grapevine

Posted: 8/15/2007 3:41:08 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Well my department just went with the GAP. Give it a couple of months and we'll see how it works.

are you kidding or joking or serious?

If you are serious I would like to hear their rationalization for it.

New York State Police adopted 45 gap. It let Glock use their regular size frames and get 45 acp performance. I laughed when I first saw it unveiled at the Shot Show but I suspect it's here to stay if they are getting large departments to accept it. What little I have heard so far has been positive. I'm tempted to get one.

It's probably like cell phones. They are probably giving the guns away to get people to buy the ammunition.

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