[ARCHIVED THREAD] - BATFE does not like Blogs. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/25/2007 9:44:04 AM EDT
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just FYI. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56832 WND WEAPONS OF CHOICE 'Blog' puts fear into gun shop inspectors Review of sales records ends over 'safety' worries Posted: July 25, 2007 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com Red's manager Ryan Horsley A team of inspectors from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives fled an Idaho gun shop where they were inspecting sales records when they learned their actions were being recorded on a blog. The federal agency and Red's Trading Post of Twin Falls, Idaho, have been disputing for six years already over the store's license to sell firearms, with regulators using rules infractions such as a missing poster to attack Red's business operations. WND documented earlier how the store appears to be caught up in a new campaign for gun control, focusing on the elimination of retail outlets through technical rules infractions. Now the federal agency has gone to court with a report that its inspectors "suspended" their work at the store recently because of the "threat to the inspectors' safety created by Ryan Horsley, the Manager of Red's." (Story continues below) Sometime during the agency's visit to his store on July 17, he updated his blog, which he's been using to chronicle for readers his encounters with the federal bureaucracy. "AFT Area Supervisor Linda Young came in today from Spokane, Washington (567.72 miles; 9 hour drive) along with Industry Operations Inspectors Calvin Pavey and Mike Gorewicz from Portland, Oregon (570.96 miles; 9 hour drive) at around 9:45am. They showed up in a rented newer model Chrsyler … [it] appears they are staying at Best America Suites, which I have to compliment them on their taste, that is a very nice hotel for this area," he wrote. He went on to describe how the inspectors were looking through the store's books and one of the store's supporters arrived with a camera and started taking some photos. "We had been recording the audit because of some of the statements that Linda Young had made in the past," he wrote. The inspectors, however, suddenly left, and within days, the federal agency's version arrived in the U.S. District Court for the District of Idaho. "[The federal agency] notifies the court than an inspection of Red's Trading Post … was initiated on July 17, 2007. The inspection was suspended due to the threat to the inspectors' safety created by Ryan Horsley, the Manager of Red's," the court filing said. The filing documented how some unidentified person had taken pictures of the inspectors at work. "At about this time, Supervisor Young's assistant from the Spokane office contacted her and advised that Mr. Horsley had updated his internet blog (http://redstradingpost.blogspot.com/) to include the information that ATF, and Supervisor Young personally, was at the store conducting an inspection," the filing said. So Young contacted others. "The Director of Industry Operations, Richard Van Loan, agreed with Supervisor Young's assessment that the photographing of the rental car used by ATF personnel, coupled with the instantaneous posting on the internet of ATF's presence … posed a credible threat to their safety and was designed to harass and intimidate," the court filing said. The court filing noted two other times when the inspectors had been photographed, including once by a news team. "The ATF has resorted to a smear campaign on my character to present before the judge, they are now spinning the fact that I wrote a recap of the events on our blog…" Horsley said in an update. "My point was to show the excess spending of the ATF, many of you know that in our 2005 audit the ATF brought in one inspector to cover five years. I was merely pointing out that they were flying in two inspectors and a supervisor from out of state to cover three weeks worth of paperwork," Horsley said. "The person in question who photographed them was a 70-year-old man in a Hawaiian shirt who is balding (Sorry, Al) and has a broken foot. Yet three inspectors felt that they were in danger," he saida. "Continue to pray for myself and my family during these attacks, also pray for these people at the ATF. I mean that honestly, Luke 6:27-28," Horsley said. A writer, David Codrea, of The War on Guns documented the court filing. He reported that Horsley had asked him to hold the information for a time. "BATFU had threatened him that he needed to cease all blogging and keep their agents and inspectors free from being photographed or observed, or they would go to the judge and file a complaint of harassment," Codrea wrote. "The new complaint is calculated to be a death blow to Red's – both financially with additional legal expenses they cannot afford, and by giving the judge an excuse to side with thugs portraying themselves as victims," he said. . "I repeat my call for a rapid response team of 'minuteman' volunteers to make themselves available via a phone tree to go to gun stores being audited, and audit/document/photograph the auditors," he wrote. "Don't let creatures of the shadows hide there – expose them to the light and make them live there – or cravenly slink back under the baseboards where they belong." Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America told WND that as recently as 15 or 20 years ago, there were 250,000 licensed gun dealers in the United States. The federal government confirms there are only about 108,000 now. The saga with Red's began when the ATF inspection in 2000 discovered various paperwork violations, Horsley said, just shortly after he arrived to take over the store, mistakes such as a customer failing to write down the county in which he lived. In 2001, "they couldn't find any violations," he told WND. A few other minor problems were found later, including a failure to put up a poster. "I wasn't alarmed because this agent … had told us we were one of the best small gun shops he'd ever seen," Horsley told WND. Then early in 2006, "We get a letter that 'We're [ATF] revoking your license,'" Horsley said. "I just came unglued. I couldn't believe it." After an expensive appeal process within ATF, he ended up with the same result, and sought out a lawyer for the federal court challenge, a challenge which now is pending. |
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I think its that the level of heat was such that they feared they might be attacked in their sleep. This may or may not be an unreasonable fear but it appears they erred on the side of caution. Regardless, this does appear to be a personal vendetta by this particular agent and should be presented to the court as such. |
(I hate that line of reasoning with a passion)
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Ryan Horsley's Page Pretty good reading.. I don't know of any authority the BATFE has in stopping someone from writing to a blog or allowing someone to take pictures in their place of business. The older gentleman was also taking pictures of the cars on the street which is perfectly legal in a public place. Could these actions be considered "harrassment"??? 
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More accurately, you don't know what their intentions are at all. On the 1 hand, we have a guy openly photographing activities occurring w/ in his place of business. And OTOH, we have:
Gee & whiz. I'm just not sure who has the more "evil intent". This is a toughy... 
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ATF going in to conduct an inspection is not an illegal act, and is not a "threat". When they agreed to get an FFL, they agreed to allow ATF in to conduct inspections once a year. Letting everyone know what kind of car they are driving and what hotel they are staying at (not to mention allowing someone to take photos of them...even if not illegal) is definitely a breach of officer's safety. Had he kept any recordings private for his use in possible future legal proceedings, it would have been fine. |
The ATF are, at least in principle, "public servants". That means the public is paying them to do what they are doing. The public is paying for their airfare and rental car. The public is paying them to stay in the hotel. They're even paying the salaries of these officers so they can harass this business owner. I know around here it's often "officer safety like a motherfucker" but as long as these guys are on the public payroll the public has a right to know what they're doing, where they're doing it, and what their money is being spent on. If they feel like they're in danger by doing what they do in the public eye they should pursue another line of work. |
+1 I have to agree with you. No blackouts. |
Does the ATF have any authority to do this?? I thought they could only inspect/copy paperwork during an inspection visit. ETA: ....inspect/copy certain specific ATF-required forms & paperwork.... Added clarification... They don't get to inspect personal stuff. Hands off the pr0n collection! 
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So, federal law enforcement officers suspended operations because of a percieved threat based on internet intelligence? HA! I hope those "AGENTS" never have to face criminals. I bet they would shit all over themselves on the way to a judge to cry their little hearts out! |
When your very existence is an affront to liberty and the promise of freedom this Country was supposed to be founded upon, a little thing like "legality" isn't going to slow you down much. |
Yea, there is that. I have heard that what goes around, comes around. <-- non-threatening, generic statement not directed at any particular event or person. |
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They are a bureau of the government devoted entirely to the harassment of citizens over certain inanimate objects. They have all of the "authority" they need to do whatever they want to you. When they are allowed to enforce laws based on how they themselves interpret them you're kind of screwed. |
Knock that crap off. |
You should call DOD and tell them that you want to be fully briefed on all ongoing operations along with the personal data of all the troops involved. They are after all, on the public dime so you have a right to know exactly what and where all of your military is every minute of every day. OpSec and PerSec be damned! People have gone after cops at home and their families. It is not a theory, it happens. Happened to a Fulton Co. Police Officer about a week or two ago, home invasion that targeted him because he was an LEO and took his wife hostage... So, no, you do not have a right to know when it violates operational security. You are always welcome to file a FOIA after the fact and see what you want, but during the operation, you do not have a right to know who is where and why. |
Yeah... how dare we think other than absolute happy thoughts about the extra-Constitutional governing agency that routinely fucks us.... |
ATF will do as they darn well please More ATF abuse |
Are you honestly comparing the danger our active duty troops are serving under overseas to the danger faced by these ATF agents? Current military operations against an armed and known enemy /= getting your picture taken while looking at records |
Dead is dead. At least DOD isn't fighting where their family lives... When you go under cover, your ID is your weapon. If you get outed, you are dead and just maybe your whole family is going to get hurt or killed. That is nothing to joke about. |
Openly harassing an FFL with a non-covert inspection is not "under cover" by any means. Does not equate... |
They're obviously not undercover. They ARE being documented as they continue what may or may not be unlawful harassment of a legal business. Would Ruby Ridge or Waco have turned out the same without the public watching? |
No, it isn't. Neither is working for an un-Constitutional agency in order to help the government oppress its citizens. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time seeing the victim behind the jackboots. ETA: Undercover operatives have nothing to do with this story, and would take a different thread to debate. |
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I like the idea... I know of a small gunsmith they ran out of business under Clinton and it sure seemed clear at the time that they were given an edict to get rid of some FFL dealers any way they could... they went through his books to an insane level and then told him that they would give hime a fine for more money then he grossed in many years OR he would need to forfit his FFL. He tried to fight it but it was too expensive to fight and the BATFE ended up putting him under for trivial violations like having one of his own guns in the shop, an issue with a county missing in the address on the 4473, and other really silly stuff. When .gov wants to make anyone a criminal, they can do it pretty easily. The sad part is they find it easier to go after a modest gunsmith that really only did CMP guns as opposed to trying to take out the trash and get the gangs that are doing real crimes. 
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Huh? Thoughts? What are these thoughts things that you speak of? ----------------------------------------------------------------------->>> I'm over here dislodging fecal matter, like I was told to. Edited for clarity |
They don't need the "modest gunsmith" but they do need "the gangs that are doing the real crimes." Just think about what you wrote a moment and it all becomes quite clear what is really up here in America. |
In the bureaucracy it's called picking low hanging fruit. An easy bean for the bean counters. Not necessarily a measure of their effectiveness towards contributing to public safety. |
While I certainly agree w/ the comment, it is non-sequitor. Do you know what thread topic this is? |
As long as you aren't flinging it into the reciprocating atmosphere oscillator, we're good... |
Yeah... they ran out of "fruit" a while back. Now they appear to be coming for the rest of us. Inventing crimes where none previously existed... |
Made up and nothing but rumors, that would be NBC! |
Not necessarily. There are legitimate functions outline in the Constitution that would require a Federal policing power. "Shall not be infringed" kinda should have taken the "F" out of the BATFE a LONG time ago. It could be safely said, that it never should have been added to begin with. But what else are you going to do with a shitload of already corrupt Prohibition officers? |
 tag o death, up next if you're not careful : you see this at night in your bedroom  And this is on the wall where you and your bed were the next morning.  |