[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Arrest-Proof Yourself (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 7/11/2007 10:45:34 AM EDT
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"Arrest-Proof Yourself: An Ex-Cop Reveals How Easy It Is for Anyone to Get Arrested, How Even a Single Arrest Could Ruin Your Life, and What to Do If the Police Get in Your Face" www.amazon.com/Arrest-Proof-Yourself-Ex-Cop-Reveals-Arrested/dp/1556526377  www.harpers.org/archive/2007/01/sb-six-questio-1169218595 Six Questions for Dale C. Carson on Staying Off the “Electronic Plantation” 1. You suggest in Arrest-Proof Yourself that it's a lot easier to get arrested than most people would imagine. Why? Painters paint, firemen put out fires, and cops put people in jail. Every month you and your employer tally up the number of arrests you made. That's how you get rated. If you make seven arrests and someone else makes five, who's the better cop? That gives a police officer an incentive to arrest as many people as possible. There were 70,000 arrests in Duval County, Florida, between 2003 and 2004—that's about 7 percent of the population. About 10 percent of the people arrested were released within 21 days. That means that you have about 7,000 people who were never prosecuted and should never have seen the inside of a squad car, but now they have an arrest record. In the book, you say it's not just cops, but various groups of people and institutions that have a stake in everything from pulling you over in your car to throwing you in jail. How does that play into the arrest epidemic? There's a system of constant surveillance that hangs over our communities—it's called the traffic stop. Duval County issued about 280,000 tickets last year, and they can cost $158 each. Those tickets raise a lot of money for the state but they rarely have anything to do with public safety or getting a bad driver off the street. The state makes a huge amount of money by arresting and jailing people, and there's a lot of people whose jobs revolve around the system—clerks, probation officers, prison guards, the list goes on and on and on. It's a cancer that has grown across the system. How do you end up being arrested if you aren't guilty of any crime or even of any serious bad behavior? Let's say your girlfriend tells the cops that you threatened her. You get stopped and thrown in jail. You say she's lying and they tell you to tell it to the judge. Even if it's a false charge, your prints are going to be sent to Washington and now you're in the electronic plantation. Any time you get stopped, the cop is going to see that you were once charged and jailed. Sure, in that case the charge was false—but the cops couldn't have known that from the outset. Give me other examples of how people who have no business being in jail can end up there. Imagine there's some poor guy in the rural south who needs to drive to work because the public transportation system is so bad. He gets a traffic ticket for $158, which is about what he makes in a week. Meanwhile, his wife is sick and they already have doctor bills they can't pay. So he calls to set a court date to deal with the ticket, because that pushes it out. But he misses the court date—maybe he just forgets about it, maybe he moved and forgot to update his mailing address so he never got the notice in the mail. He hasn't really done anything wrong but now he may end up getting his license suspended, and he still needs to drive to get to work. If you get stopped three times driving on a suspended license it's a felony with a maximum five-year penalty. Here's another example. A lot of women are charged with writing bad checks. That's a civil issue and there may have been no ill intent—she didn't realize how little money was in the account, maybe her kid was sick and she didn't have time to make a deposit. If she gets pulled over for a minor traffic infraction and the cop sees a warrant for a bad check, do you think she's going to see the inside of a squad car? Hell, yes, she is, and then she's going to be permanently in the electronic plantation. Let's say the police stop me, for whatever reason, and I know I haven't done anything wrong. What's wrong with pushing back in that situation? When you get stopped by a cop, you have a relationship whether you like it or not and you need interpersonal skills. As an American, you shouldn't have to be overly polite to the police, but victory in this case is not ending up in the back of a squad car. People like people who are like them, so you want to establish commonality. You want to signal that you acknowledge you may be in the wrong and desire to cooperate, even if you're not guilty. Above all use manners and be pleasant. Never lie and never create an antagonistic relationship with a cop—take three deep breaths if you are getting angry. This may be hard to do but it's essential. You do not want to end up getting fingerprinted and going to jail, because if that happens you are in the system and you are in permanently. Has this whole problem been exacerbated by the Bush Administration and legislation like the Patriot Act? We as a population are increasingly going to be screened and vetted by the government. The Patriot Act turned up the heat, but this really isn't a partisan issue. I'm not sure when the pot really started boiling, but it's been boiling under both Democratic and Republican administrations. There is a real balancing act—law enforcement needs to protect citizens from real threats. There are zealots out there and that's a frightening thing for all of us. September 11 liberalized the government's ability to apply these sorts of surveillance and monitoring resources against the population, and with fewer judicial restrictions. Even if it's a necessary intrusion, some of the more restrictive tools should be withdrawn at some point. The problem is that once you turn up the heat, it becomes very hard to turn it back down. * * * Interesting to note that he was on the morning radio talk-show and when asked if he would ever allow the police to search his vehicle, even if he had nothing to hide, his answer was "Absolutely Not, it conditions cops to think that it is ok, and its not" |
If that's the kind of logic he displays throughout the entire book, I'll pass. Just because someone was out within 21 days doesn't mean they "never should've seen the inside of a squad car" or that they were "never prosecuted". |
Yeah, I thought that was weird too. A person arrested for shoplifting won't see 21 days in jail. Does that mean they never should have been arrested in the first place? |
 Holy fuck no. Don't admit to anything, ever. Don't consent to a search if there is any possibility you have anything illicit in the car. Be polite, shut you damned pie hole, take the ride and talk to your lawyer first before you talk to anyone. In fact, if you are ever arrested the first and only thing you say is "I want to talk to my lawyer." After those seven words, your lawyer should be the only person talking to the cops. |
I'll tell you for free besides "don't be involved in illegal activity" some of this is more "Don't get convicted" rather than "don't get arrested" advice-don't date wacky broads (or men depending on your preference  ) also do not associate with scumbags. Vindictive and unstable former lovers are probably the number one cause of getting into a jam with the man for something you didn't really do. Hanging around with idiots who are involved with drugs or illegal weapons also leads to trouble.-Don't consent to a police search. -Don't give a statement to the police -Don't argue with the police-most of the stuff I see on arfkom bitching about police is in my opinion being a crybaby, however if there is some serious problem with how an officer acted deal with it through a personnel complaint or a lawsuit, not at the side of the road. -Don't date badge bunnies or women otherwise formerly involved with police officers -Don't get into fights or arguments in public, whether with loudmouths, buddies or girlfriends. Most guys who regularly get into fights are shitbirds who don't care if they get another night in jail and another criminal conviction. -Only fight or draw a weapon to protect yourself or a family member. (preferrably a family member not engaged in criminal activity  )
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AMEN! Better to be tossed in the county jail now than to give a statement that could result in a state prison sentence later. |
| just follow the advice given here www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkBNecBzO4Y |
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I usually cooperate with the law. Several weeks ago I stopped by a large bank where my floor people were cleaning the carpet just to see how it was going. I'm standing out front talking on my cellphone when I notice a policeman is peeking around the corner at me. He asks me what I'm doing and I tell him that I'm checking on progress since I was in the area. He tells me that someone called in suspicious activity ( several vans are parked in front of the bank at 9 pm.) No problem as I understand why he responded and wanted to look inside,etc. Then he asks for my i.d. for his c.a.d. report, again no problem until he starts to check me for warrants. I took my license out of his hand and told him he has no reason to do that nor to detain me any furthur. With that I told my crew bye and drove off. |
So let me make sure I've got this straight. A cop, following up on a report of suspicious activity at a bank, asked for ID and you gave it to him. Then YOU told him there was no reason for him to detain you, snatched your ID from his hand, hightailed it out of there and didn't get followed, arrested and taken to jail? Sure, I'll buy that one. Got a bridge for sale too? |
Is the merit pay system for cops/prosecutors based on the number of arrests/convictions? Could that be part of the problem? Maybe? Think about it the next time you get pulled over and Occifer Friendly pulls a little baggie of powder out of his shirt pocket and says "Well lookee what I found here, step out of the vehicle and put your hands behind your back". That type of crap actually happened in LAPD Rampart Division.
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As a bail bondsman I see this stuff all the time. I would say 75% of the bonds I do 3rd shift are for driving while license invalid. I always ask my clients why they were driving while invalid & most have no clue why their license is not valid. I have learned through my job you can be arrested for any reason the cop decides to arrest you for & it's tell it to the judge time. It scares the crap out of me now when I see a cop even though I'm not doing anything wrong. It wasn't like that before I started working bail bonds.  I used to think the cops were my friends there to help me if need be. Now I am afraid they will find a way/reason to lock me up if they make contact with me. |
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His point is that if you get actually arrested for something, that is now going to show up each and every time you get run for anything that is government related. Not just the next time you get pulled over, but school/teaching jobs, bank jobs, govt jobs, etc. The arrest alone can screw you in a big way, even if you beat it. Most druggies and whatnots are already shitbags who have a rap sheet, this apparently is for those of us with clean records. |
Hahahahahahahahahahaha, and when he got back in his car his gun fell out, The officer said, excuse me sir, can I see that gun, he flipped him the bird and said you have no right to look at it. and left, grabbed a burger and the rest of the night went well. |
Yep thats what I did. It had been established who we were and what we were doing and no bank alarm had been set off. Therefore he knows what he needs to know and we're done. |
I had my gun on in plain sight and provided my carry permit along with my license. |
I had a similar feeling after taking Federal Criminal Procedure. |
What? Most people who get arrested are relaesed withen 3 days, after theiur first court apperance. Not because the DA refused to filke. but because they plead guilty for credit time served, or probation, or a fine or the judge OR them. Its a bullshit claim to conclude that because they were released withen 21 days they were not prosectuted. Ive had car thieves serve less than 21 days. |
What did the officer have to say about that? |
I got pulled over one night at 10:30 for window tint too dark. Yes it was so I can't argue there. When I was TOLD - not asked- that she was going to search my truck, I told her hell no she was not going to search it. You should have seen her look, like who was I to tell her she couldn't. I told her that she could AFTER she called her captain out and she emptied everything out of her pockets. After 30 mins and a tint ticket I was gone. Yes I could have let her search it, no I didn't have anything to hide, it was the fact she told me she was going to do it. |
He started appologizing and saying that he just need my name for his cad report. My name was all he needed as I have been questioned for suspicious activity several hundred times in the past 20 years. It happens alot in my line of work. |
No. There is much more to being a good cop than putting up numbers. Some of the best cops i work with are guys who rarely make an observed arrest. But when there is a major traffic collision, or you are on a night time carstop by yourself they are the first guys to show up and hep out. Any police administrator that evaluates performance by arrest numbers alone is a fool. Yes to a certain extent police are judged by numbers. Because its a concrete way to rate self initiated activity. Just as police chiefs are judged by crime rates. But its far from the only thing that should be looked at. |
Thats not how they did it. Rafael Perez testified that if he wanted to set someone up there was no need to actually ever show them the drugs or plant the drugs in their car. Just slap the cuffs on them and book them into jail. Just be sure to book the appropriate contraband at the end of the shift in their name. That way they think they are just being arrested for a warrant and dont make a scene. Then at arraignment they see the report and only then learn they are being chanrged with crack "found" in their car. |
I had a similar feeling after watching my best friend loaded into a cop car. We were at his landscape business after hours for band practice. Its a large machine building and far enough from houses that we can turn it up and it doesn't bother anyone. After practice we're sitting outside discussing schedules and a cruiser drives through. When he stops we walk over to see what's going on and shoot the shit a little bit, and to see why he's inside the fence on private property. The cop tells us that he saw some lights and wanted to make sure there wasn't a break-in going on, although we're up there 3-5 nights a week and the lights are always on. Phil tells him that he owns the business and thanks him for checking on things. The cop asks for Phil's DL so he can enter a record of speaking to the business owner if something happens later. My buddy hands over his liscense and we start closing up the shop to head home. Cop comes back and tells Phil that he's under arrest for an outstanding warrant. Parking ticket his wife said she paid from 2+ years ago. $47. Phil asks if he can just pay the cop $50 and call it good, cop says no and puts him in cuffs. I get to head over to Phil's house and sit there with his two kids while his wife drives to the station to bail him out. Found out later that they had sent his notice to appear to the wrong address, he had no idea there was a warrant. Since we're both nice guys we talked with the cop before this went down and offered him any help that he needed, including our ID's. Knowing what I know now, once it was established that there wasn't a break-in we would have told him to fuck off. Anyone that thinks a cop is really your friend is a fool. |
No doubt. Ludicrous conclusion. |
I can write my own report after the evil has been done, don't need Barney there for that either. Or were you talking about the cops on TV that crack the case and show up while the crime is being committed and other fictional shit? |
I would buy Aimless's book first.
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Just because there were 70,000 arrests, it doesn't mean anything in terms of the perentage of the population. I've arrested plenty of people multiple times (almost one guy twice in the same day). A detective from another department told me this before I started, and it seems more true each day... 10% of the people cause 90% of the problems. |
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You crack me up. Funny stuff. As far as "Don't date badge bunnies or women otherwise formerly involved with police officers" I have a sneaky suspicion you have some entertaining stories which revolve around this. Care to share?
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Another_Dude, No, I was talking about the police officers who arrive on scene before EMS, pull out the AED, and possibly save a life and even if they don't, they try thier hardest, the police officers who catch the child molester hanging around your kids' local park, the same police officers who pull over the drunk asshole who would have smashed into you a mile down the road, and the very same ones who come around a corner and see you getting your ass beat for your wallet. Not to mention the police officers who respond to your place of business when it's being robbed, or the police officers who drive thorough your neighborhood because the little old lady down the street saw someone climbing through your window, or the officer who comes to investigate the hit-and-run that you got caught up in, or the officer that books the local murderer into the jail, maybe even the officers who kick down the door of the local crackhouse. Can you do all that? |
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Correct. I arrest the same group of about 500 people over and over. The other 32,500 people in my patrol area dont get into legal trouble. |
Amazing. None of that has ever applied to me in a place called "real life". Several DUI/Seatbelt checkpoints and a friend cuffed and stuffed for a $47 ticket, but zero on the Superman shit. |
LMAO! I love when the guy gets out of the car and starts cussing at the officer. By the way, the white friend is the best advice. ETA:
ROFL! Seriously, you should be a comedian.
It's neat to hear that! You could've been friends with them in another lifetime, eh? :p
Same here, although I'm not very old. Those examples happen frequently around the country, but the chance of it happening to you as an individual and an officer saving you is relatively low. P.S. Cops are your friends; they just let you down sometimes. |
I figured as much. Contrary to what you believe, you aren't the only one in this world. |
What exactly is it that you know now that would make it legal for you to tell a cop to fuck off in a similar situation? There's not a whole lot of discretion when a warrant has been issued - granted, there are extenuating circumstances on occassion but 99/100 times if you have a warrant you're going to jail. Brian |
Where's the BS flag. The officer had the authority to detain you and run you for warrants - unless TN has some goofy laws. As soon as I give dispatch your name they're running you for warrants. Brian |
He should rephrase his comment to include that police officers are good when referring to a large sample group, but when referring to an individual, not so much. It's not about them being good/bad, it's about them being on the look-out for illegal things, whatever they be. So, what do you do? You keep your guard up for possible rights infringement and hope you spot those illegal things before they do. |
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It all boils down to a basic fact. If you want to truly arrest proof yourself, never ever break the law. I break the speed limit. I am prepared to get a ticket. I might play my music a little loud. I am prepared to get a noise complaint. Etc, etc, etc. If you can't handle the consequences, don't take the risk. |
He drove through a gate onto private property. No reason for him to be there if there's no crime. No crime? OK, thanks officer, have a good night. Need to see ID to be in my own place of business...sure, bring back a warrant and my lawyer can meet us here. There's also the story he told about the exact same ticket he got when his son was driving his car didn't tell him about the parking ticket. When his name came up for the warrant he paid $47 right then and went about his day. No cuffs, no fingerprints. Must be nice. |
That's a great point Dockery. Like spiders, I know that we need police to be out there so the world doesn't fall apart. Like spiders, I don't want cops anywhere around me. |
Brian |
[quote]Quoted: This is where the investigative phase of the job comes b]Imagine there's some poor guy in the rural south who needs to drive to work because tin, but it's been my experience that Fl. does not allow that. Also without a CHRI check the street officer WILL NOT know these things and CHRI is not ordinarily run except in cases of arrest or a more serious interaction than a traffic stop. Oh ands the Patriot Act question lets me know this interview WAS NOT on a reasonable talk show. |