[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SCA sword fights (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/27/2007 10:28:48 PM EDT
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Went to the SCA gathering tonight to get advice on making a bow. They had sword fights with fencing swords and with ratan knight style swords while wearing armor. These fights don't last long before one of the guys gets hit. This stuff demands conditioning and endurance if they continue several engagements, but for just one engagement it's over fast. No surprise given the thread here about real sword fights, the thread a couple weeks ago. There was one match, two-sword guy against sheild and sword guy. Sometimes two-swords won, sometimes the sheild and sword guy won. Great fun and sometimes the armor breaks, I can see that as being bad. |
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Any halfway decent fencer is going to get a hit first on some random yahoo with 2 swords or sword and shield. What is fun however, is getting a bunch of good fencers in a big room and having an open melee. All hits on torso count, front back, wherever. It gets tough trying to concentrate on the guy in front of you when you know someone might be sneaking up to stab you in the back. |
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SCA is dorky - but I wouldnt call it gay. Most of them want to recreate the combat from medival times and actually re-create the weapons and armor from back then - recovering the lost arts. BTW - if you want to make a bow - look around for long bow makers. My buddy got one from this guy and it is AWESOME. He is a hell of a maker. If you want, I can get his contact info and forward it to you - PM me. And to scotch boy, SCA isn't the same as LARP. No lightning bolts. |
Scotch boy!? I  in your general direction.
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The weights actually go from one extreme to another. I was dragged to a 3 day weekend SCA event and every dude was either 120- or 300+ |
And let's not EVEN discuss the smell. 
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You sure you guys arent confusing SCA with a gun show? |
Was there jerked mutton and dragon Beanie Babies available? |
| I knew a bunch of guys who fenced in college. One of my buddy's was out visiting one of them who still fences, he went with the fencer guy to a meet in CA. He said the guy we know was still pretty fast for basically having become a fat programmer, but he said the people who were serious about it at the match were lightning fast; the guy we knew had no chance of lasting very long (which he knew). |
SCA is hardly "some random yahoo". I know people who spend 1 hour a day practicing and 4 hours on sat sparring. It's hard physical work. |
Those tend to be the non fighters. The fighters tend to be in shape. Armor is HEAVY. |
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excuse my ignorance but wtf is the SCA? mike eta - is this them: www.sca.org/, re-enactors....? |
when I was a kid we were camping at a lake in NM...they had a large SCA convention going on...my mom told me not to talk to them as they were all devil worshipers.....I guess she just thought they were stupid and it would keep me away from them.... |
Yeah that's them If you want a real good time go to PENNSIC Nothing like watching thousands of guys beat the crap outta each other all at once 
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I've met Christians (Dressed as Templar Knights, no less), Witches, druids, and assorted Pagans in the SCA. |
And you fell right into my nerd trap!! hahahahahhahaahah!!! |
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I've have a life-long fascination with historical hand-to-hand combat and as a teenager I played Dungeons & Dragons (among other RPG's) and knew who Ewart Oakshott was (i.e., I was a pretty serious nerd). I decided to check out the SCA with the intent of getting into their heavy fighting and those folks creeped ME out!!!! This isn't a pejorative. I actually admire those folks a lot. They just take things to much further extremes than I'm comfortable with. And, despite what a previous poster's mother thought....most of the SCA folks I've met were quite intelligent. I've heard it said many times, and I don't doubt it a bit, that a lot of SCA folks are formidable fighters. However, what they do isn't historically accurate. There's a whole other set of folks (many of whom were/are involved in SCA) trying to recreate authentic medieval sword techniques. Most of the medieval fight manuals come from the 15th and 16th centuries (i.e., Fiore, Talhoffer, etc...) but there is some earlier stuff illustrating techniques with sword and buckler (i.e., I.33). |
OK......From the WoW thread
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IIRC it's the Renassance combat society based out of TX. They're on the history channel a lot. ARMA |
I've trained with Arma, including back when they were known as HACA. They know their stuff. |
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There are quite a few other groups around the world including Schola Saint George, which is also in Texas. One thing I REALLY like about ARMA is their insistence on pursuing their studies solely as a MARTIAL ART. No re-enacting, no period dialect, etc.... It's a strict academic study medieval combat techniques. We tried to get a Schola Saint George study group going here but it never got off the ground. Like ARMA, they focus on historical swordsmanship but they come at it from an angle that clearly reflects their SCA heritage. For those who are interested in what ARMA is doing check out this video of founder/director John Clements discussing and demonstrating parries and displacements with the flat of the blade. As a side note, the swords they are using are from the Maestro line at Albion Armourer's. It's a blunted longsword that actually handles and feels like a real medieval longsword. I'd love to get my hands on one!!! |
If you've been to PENNSIC you would know that only 10% of those women have ANY business wearing one However, ther's always that ONE in ten
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LoL! The classifiers are pretty darn accurate IMHO! Men < 120 lbs or Men >= 350 lbs  Women >= 275 lbs Yup. That pretty much describes what I've seen.  Also, I was on the University of MN Fencing Team. I trained with a former US Mens Olympic Coach for over 1 year... Great teacher! I was taught German, French, Italian, and English fencing techniques. Basically, I've had a Blackbelt in TaeKwonDo, and the footwork for TaeKwonDo was much more efficient than the footwork in Fencing... As such I developed my own form of fencing technique that's a blend of English & TaeKwonDo footwork (a little faster, lower, & less predictable), and my blade work was a blend of German & Italian techniques... It was FUN, FAST, and STRUCTURED. Far from much of what I've seen at SCA events!  The SCA people often use little form (if any), their arms flailing around like some kind of flamboyant Erroll Flyn (sp?) moves... It was actually pretty pathetic. I tried only one fight. Against the best one I saw in a east metro / west WI area. He thought he was hot sh~t and wanted to try the collegiate rapier fencer (Foil & Epee)... I borrowed someone's schlaeger bladed rapier (Heavier than my usual Epee blade, but oh well it's all in the hand/wrist anyway - still manuverable)... I took a few swings & moved it around to get a feel for the blade's length & weight... He had a rapier, a 2nd blade, and chainmail gloves (to grab my blade and 'kill' me).  I just had one rapier. Everybody was totally acting 'out of character' for the fight rooting, betting on their buddy, etc. It was over FAST. The guy was pretty quick, though, I'll give him that much.He lunged, I parried & retreated. He fleched, I parried & shoved him backwards (was difficult, the guy was ~275 lbs to my 175!). I was learning his footwork 'tells' to predict him more (it was easy). I lunged & thrusted, he parried, dropped the 2nd blade & tried grabbing my blade... Every time he over-parried the same, and left his outside open. It was obvious what I had to do. I lunge/thrust & doublet his attempted overextended parry twice, his glove hand comes forward as he's looking down at my blade tip, I quickly advance, doublet, & lunge catching him near the heart. Bout was over in about 25 seconds. That guy sure was trained...  By trial & error. He just got another free lesson that day. Don't underestimate a PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED fencer (even IF I only fenced 1 year, and didn't get my 'rating' which was about level 'c' - It's the QUALITY of the training that counts, not so much as the AMOUNT; AMOUNT only matters in level of EXPERIENCE) who's also educated in the most MODERN of italian styles from the 1700's & 1800's (as well as 20th century olympic style foil fencing) which made most other rapier & small sword techniques pretty much obsolete.  I was only on the team for 1 year, and I dropped out afterwards because it required minimum 12 hours a week practice to stay on the team, and 18 hours /wk minimum practice to attend competitions.... I was starting my senior year in college & had to focus on GRADUATING instead. Kind of wish I would have had the chance to be officially rated, but I only fought in some collegiate circuits against Northwestern, Purdue, UMich, UWisc, etc...  The SCA, and some of the more ADVANCED study groups like those mentioned down in Texas REALLY know their S#!T about historically accurate techniques... But that's where there's a problem... You put a person taught in 1600's techniques up against someone with 1700's or 1800's techniques (when rapier fighting pretty much officially 'died off')... The older, techniques - though formidable - are still obsolete.
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Reminds me of why I carry a gun and not a longsword.
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They had guns back then too. And gun shields! And gun swords! And gun daggers! And they werent the ugly POS of today - they were hand worked, with gold, silver, and/or ivory inlaid and tons of engraving. People dont think of guns in the times of knights - but they were fairly abundant. At the Doge's (sp) palace in Venice are some awesome examples. |
Back when I used to play, many many moons ago, I liked "Slay Living", "Finger of Death", and the dreaded "I wish that guy had just cut your arms off." |
The term bulletproof refers to the dent made on a breastplate to show the buyer a bullet bounces off it. |
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SCA Event: Bunch of people get together at a campground or large field. Everyone camps. Some fight. Some shoot bow and arrow. Everyone drinks long into the night. There's wandering belly dancers. Many people give freely of their booze (homemade and store bought). Just about everyone will welcome you to join them around their campfire. Yeah, it's a terrible thing. |
Tell the guys that get their arms, legs, wrists broken during combat that they are only pretending. If it were totally safe, I would consider it. Since I know better I'll just watch them with a full horn of mead. |
I'd agree with that, from what I have seen. I'm sure there ARE some "serious" SCA people interested in learning and training actual ancient styles, but most of the ones I've seen are far more interested in style over substance - and are NOT physically fit (in any meaning of the word I am familiar with). The idea is nice, and I have no problem with people doing it - but once they start acting like they are serious martial artists, then they seem no different to me than the airsoft kids who think they are "well-trained" or "tactical" because they run around in the woods every other weekend shooting each other in the ass with BBs. Enjoyable - I bet. Serious martial training - usually not.
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