Posted: 2/22/2007 7:36:14 AM EDT
| I'll prefeace this depressing notion with the justification that I'm retired Army, experienced two combat tours in Vietnam, and have never considered voting for anyone without a Republican title in my life. The thought has been in the back of my mind for a while and the statement recently that provisions be made to bring 7,000 plus Iraqi supporters to the US who will be DRT when the US pulls out. This happened when we abandoned South Vietnam. We abandoned the Hmong to the Communists. We abandoned the Chinese Nungs. How are we going to again accept this disaster? How are we going to justify the inevitable massacre of those who once again mistakenly believed that we as a nation would never abandon them? How will we again hide the thousands of maimed soldiers who did thier duty and now will be paralyzed and suffer as amputees and because of their scars be forced to remain hidden from society for the rest of their lives? And now the larger question, how will the current soldiers who have, as always have done thier duty, accept the fact that they lost a war? And don't give me this " we never lost a battle bullshit", I used it myself for thirty seven years to assauge my conscience for the things I did and to soothe my soul when remembering those who died and I had a life while they did not. I'm really not lookintg forward to experiencing it all again. |
Unfortunetly, none of that matters in the eyes of the Democrats.....If bringing the soldiers home will get'em more votes, thats what they will do......Winning the war or not, the democrats are looking for votes...... Sad but True...... |
| If they think cutting a running will win them elections, they have made a serious miscalculation. It's one thing to talk about getting out. Everyone wants to get out. Doing so prematurely is not what the majority of Americans want. We want a winning strategy. Unfortunately, like with Vietnam, our leaders have set our warriors up for failure. |
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This sounds cynical and fucked-up, but to preserve our international credibility, we have to spin our withdrawal in the following way: the Iraqis lost Iraq, not us. They had a chance to make a better country and they did not take it. There is still the slim hope that the Iraqi security forces can get it together if we continue to support through aid and training assistance after combat troops leave. Unlike Vietnam, where we completely pulled the rug out from under them |
I beg to differ somewhat; the military, our soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen; we are the ones that have the balls to get the job done; that's why we are over there, getting the job done; is the castrated politicians that play with our lives that are the ones that had their balls locked in a lockbox. If the politicians stop pandering for votes and sucking up to the interest groups and let the generals do their jobs, we would, for once win this one. Stop blocking our efforts, just give us the weapons, the equipment and set us loose. |
ah.. so baghdad is a town somewheres in the continental us? one suspects that if .. say 300,000 islamic soldiers with military prowess of the germans were attacking washington or new york city for instance... you would see quite a display of american 'balls'.. but baghdad is a city in the middle beast where few if any us citizens live . . so i think the analogy sorta falls apart there... and i will agree the america is not very good at fighting these long distance wars for the locals who are less interested in victory than us. |
+1 The statement above says it all! You think we would have learned the lessons of Vietnam. Freakin politicians making the military fight a war on the "cheap" and with one hand tied behind their back. 
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Yes baghdad will fall. Those brave Iraqies who helped us and voted for freedom will be sent to the acid baths to scream in agony. A new taliban like regime will start up in Iraq. A new America hating terrorist organization will prop up in Iraq. That organization will blow up another American building or city. America will play this game many times before we are destroyed by our ignorance of domination. Liberals rule America kill yourself or let it go. They will ban your pathetic 2nd amendment rights and call you a warmongering terrorist. You will be hunted down by the very police officers on this site. They will shoot you to death in front of your family. The officer will clearly enjoy shooting you dead with his police legal AR-15. All the news organization will call you a terrorist. New day same old ARFCOM bullshit. I know this one thing for sure. Not one of you will ever do anything but bleat like pathetic sheep, coddle your familes and reluctantly march off to the showers. |
For starters, the question as to who will carry the day still remains in question. The answer to that question will be determined by politicians, just as Vietnam was. I don't believe that any practical person feels that the military lost Vietnam. The war was lost at home. If we pull out of Iraq and the place descends even further into hell and becomes a failed state, I will not say to my fellow veterans "We lost the war because we failed as Soldiers." I will look at my fellow Americans, my media, and my government and blame them for failing us and losing the fortitude that it takes to win a war. |
They didn't. They won, hands down. It wasn't even close. Our government let them sit there, in a foreign country, drawing scum from all over the middle east, to come and kill them, long after the battle was over. The only thing we could do, after the enemy was driven from the field, would be to wipe them out, completely, men, women and children. That, or leave. That's how you roll in the middle east. They've been doing it that way for 6,000 years. |
Absolutely. They've had three years, with our funding and training, to build a military and police force to take responsibility for their own security, and they can't do it.
RVN lasted for, what, three years after we pulled out? We were in Vietnam because of the Domino Theory, which has since been proven to not be true. We're in Iraq because... why? Yes, they had WMDs, but nothing that could touch us. Yes, they had terrorist training camps... which have now moved on to the other Ihateamerikastans in the region, and elsewheres. Yes, they had a brutal dictator... as do dozens of other countries. Time for a wakeup call. If Bush remains adamant about maintaining and increaasing our presence in Iraq indefinitely, we will see the Democratic nominee win in '08 We're going to get gun control, national socialized health care, and a wrecked economy all because we just refused to pull out of Iraq. Oh, and we'll be out of there anyway, because that's the first thing Madam President Clinton is going to do. Let the Saudi Arabians handle the Iraq security situation. If they wind up ina shooting war with Iran over it, we can certainly pitch in and help them out. But I'm tired of my taxes (and the value of my savings and investments) going towards maintaining "security" for Iraq when we can't maintain "security" in our own urban centers! |
It was true. After Vietnam fell to Communism, so did Cambodia, and Laos. Southeast asia became Communist. I think there is still a chance to win if we actually put forth an effort. I'm tired of people telling me that this is can't be done because we have lost 3,000 and its lasted longer than WWII. When the hell did WWII become a timeline for a war. If you can't in in the time it took to win WWII then it can't be done. I just think America has lost its will to do anything. Let's just pull out of this "civil war," and fight what the liberals want and help Darfur's "civil war." They don't want the military to be anything more than a Peace Corp with camo. |
| Iraq is a lost cause. We did our part, it's the damn Iraqi government that cant get their shit together just like every other Arab nation. Time to come home. What the hell is the point of 3000 Americans dying if the people we are dying for dont give a shit about their own future |
A military is only as good as its leaders.
Same thing said about Vietnam.
Nope. Was settled last election. |
Stalin was a murderous dictator. The Russian army was brutal, that didn't help them a bit in Afghanistan, and they just can't seem to beat the Chechens. Who the Hell are you to say our Military doesn't have balls? |
As a Nation, we certainly do not. |
You said "The Russian army had balls", implying that you don't think our Troops today do. If you meant to say "Our politicians have no balls", you would have said that. You can't play it off that easy. 
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Maybe, but then agina, maybe not.
A majority of Americans? Ha! More than 63% want us out right now--like yesterday, and this number is growing weekly. Daddy and Mommy just don't want Johnny killed in a sandbox...... I do not belive that you could ask that question in any way and get a 50%+ responce to staying in a poll run with reasonable sampling of the american public. |
You have to remember, there are so many deaths that are never reported in Baghdad. And the murder rate is still higher in Baghdad. Ask yourself this: How many militias operate in D.C.? Does D.C. have a walled off "Green Zone"? When is the last helicopter that was shot down in D.C.? How many headless bodies have they fished out of the Potomac? Do you think you would stand a better chance of walking the streets of D.C. or Baghdad? How many thousands of armed U.S. troops operate in D.C? |
It was one of Americas most ecologically significant wetlands, the only responsible thing is to return it to its natural state... |
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And sorry to say for good reason. It is normal behavior not to have motivation to help someone who won't help themselves. Most of us are military and understand the stakes, consequences of failure....etc. One minute Joe civilian sees Iraq citizens dancing on a burning HUMVEE The next minute he sees Bush asking for 86 Billion to help these people dancing on the Humvee. Thats all Joe Civilian sees. Hopefully if a retreat looks like it is going to happen the American people will wake up and say hold on a minute. Losing in Iraq will haunt our kids kids before the healing is over. Spinning the story to blame the Iraq people isn't going to work. |
Well, what do you suggest then? I see you egging on people to take action, yet don't see you doing anything.... |
WE have balls, but our politicians are feminized metro males. News media for the most part is part of the fifth column. I agree with you in that we cannot watch what happened after the Vietnam War to our military and country happen again. WE do have a few Patriot real men left [Duncan Hunter] for one who need to speak up now and be heard. |
The problem is not just the politicians, but many Generals who parrot their policies and institute a misguided intention into military doctrine. |