Posted: 2/1/2007 6:47:14 PM EDT
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When were they adopted by the military? Watching Apocalypse Now I noticed the rifles were all equipped with 30 round mags. I realize movies are about the props that are available but it just got me wondering. I guess I thought the 30 rd mag came long after the Vietnam War. Anybody know? |
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From wikipedia: The magazine release is on the right side of the rifle, ahead of the trigger guard. Current military magazines have a capacity of 30 rounds, as opposed to the 20-round magazines issued in Vietnam. (30-round magazines were not developed and issued until late in the war.) Aftermarket double magazine clips are available. This practice is discouraged by military authorities because it is said to increase the chance that the top of a magazine will be damaged or pick up dirt. Nevertheless, recent pictures from Iraq (2004) show that Special Forces and mainstream military forces are quick to make use of double magazine clips. Loading the magazines to full capacity may cause feeding problems, so some troops opt to fill magazines with a maximum of 28 rounds. |
OK so you have never had a bolt not want to come back to eject or not want to feed out a locked in fully loaded 30rd magazine ? years of many peoples experience, many training courses and many operations manuals say you are wrong this always turns into a shit fest interestingly enough 99% of the people that have BTDT ( not me Im a plinker) follow that rule as well also the High reliablity 30rd HK magazines hold 31 for some reason |
When using a new, fully loaded magazine, I have often experienced that the bolt has trouble stripping off the first round, it gets "stuck" with the round halfway out of the mag, and either needs to be pushed forward with the forward assist, or pulled back with the charging handle and allowed to release again. |
As far as BTDT, uh yeah, and have the T-shirt. The above referenced problem tends to result from "slapping" the fully loaded 30 round magazine into place, rather than using the "push/pull" method. The bolt riding over a fully loaded magazine (when charging) could cause a problem with the old black followers as it was not very stable and could tilt slightly when pressure was applied to the top round. Downloading for RELIABILTY has not been an issue since adoption of the green follower, but if it makes you FEEL better, have at it. 
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Yes, and I WANTED 20s during qualification as they allowed better clearance. Since we only loaded 20 x 2 mags, it wasn't an issue. 20s were also less likely to snag and made the already light A1 just a wee lighter. |
Im sure the green followers help and you are probably correct it is not the issue it once was and alot of manuals are outdated I agree with you on that point once i thought about it a bit I think we are kinda talking about different things what i was getting at is i have seen many times is you drop the bolt from bolt lock the bolt comes forward and push the round 1/2 to 3/4 out of the magazine partly into the feedramp/chamber and stops needing a little bop to get it forward or worse the guy pulls the charging handle and now you have a double feed as for stove pipes , double feeds thinks like that I do believe the green followers improved things IMO the rifles just seem to function better and take less force to operate when downloaded a couple rounds My only experience comes from 10 years of 3 gun matches a couple of carbine course but i have seen it be a issue over and over even with green followers so why all the hate over the lost of a couple rounds that makes the weapon system sooo much easier to manipulate but as you said whatever works for you  |
I understand what you are saying, and it's what I refered to as being caused by a bit of a "slap" of the magazine. The top round tends to jump out of place slightly and the bolt drives into an out of position round that does not to feed until the bolt pressure is relieved and partially recharged. I have also seen this problem occur on new rifles until they have a few hundred rounds thru them. When I teach carbine classes, I always demonstrate the "slap" and show how it causes poor feeding. Try the "push/pull" method of magazine insertion, it stops this problem. I advise downloading to 28 rounds, otherwise "push/pull" is difficult when the bolt is closed. My point is that downloading helps prevent an OPERATOR induced malfunction, it is not an actual neccessity. Sorry if the above post came off wrong. |
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AF Security Forces had the first model 30 rounder in late 1966-67. The mag body was fully curved, meaning it was a constant arc, unlike the straight top section with the curved bottom section of the 1968 to current 30 rounder. The early fully curved 30 would not fit in all rifles due to differences in magazine well tolerances. The improved, stepped model magazine body came out in mid to late 1968, and only springs and followers have been officially changed since then. |
naw I think we are on the same page I was more so just stirring the shit as a 28vs30rd thread usally goes pages and pages with a whole lot of insults and is quite entertaining |