[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another Aircraft Thread. 56K beware! (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 12/29/2006 1:59:12 PM EDT
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So...... What combat aircraft that we have gotten rid of (or didn't produce) could still have potential use on the battlefield? I'm going to say the F-111 could still be a very viable aircraft both in it's bomber and EW version. For the Austrailians it still is. F-4 Phantom - The Izzies are still using it and there was a recent thread that mentioned how much more capable it was as a Wild Weasel aircraft compared to the F-16 that replaced it. F-14 Tomcat - We just got rid of it a few months ago. I think it could still be as useful an aircraft as it was this summer and in Iraq. XB-70 Valkerye - Never really produced beyond the experimental stage- the only one left is still flown by NASA for research. I think this could have been a hugely capable aircraft if only due to its speed. I think it could be a very capable bird with todays technology - especially in uncontested airspace, but even with air defences. With its speed it could make a good fast strike option - especially with the standoff munitions we are using now. I'm not sure about the A-6 though. Anyone? How about the F-117? I'm sure many will rip my thoughts apart here - that's fine. Aircraft aren't my strong point but I do have an interest. Any more here want to add some? -K Oh yeah - PICs are highly encouraged! |
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The F-20 Tigershark. Great plane, lousy timing, awful politics. The YF-23 could certainly find a niche. Almost EVERY special version of the F-16 that was produced for research purposes would have been found useful. The supercruising F-16XL with the huge cranked arrow wing, with ridiculous bombload capacity. or the MATV/VISTA thrust vectoring and supermaneuverable version. I think F-4s could still be quite useful as bomb trucks. CJ |
uhhhhh  not unless you are releasing some super duper tops secrets info....ETA a derivative is rumored to be the launch platform for the airforces super duper secret space plane.... |
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On the F-111, I'd agree that the EW (EF-111A Raven) version would still be a viable tool today, its replacement the EA-6B Prowler is not as capable as the "Spark Vark" was. The Jamming suite on the Prowler doesnt have the jamming capability that the "Raven" did, that and coupled with its capability to fly low-level at high speeds with other attack aircraft made it a better tool IMO. I've worked on F-4G's (Clark Air Base, Philippines) and did my last assignment with an F-16 Wild Weasel unit (Clovis AFB, NM) and the F-4G hands down had the better jamming/SEAD capability. Just prior to all of the F-4G's being phased out they teamed them up into "Hunter Killer" teams with F-16's...that was a smart move that would have made sense to keep in service. Ordances wise in the SEAD role, the F-4G wins hands down too. I dont think the Navy ever used the full potential of the F-14, the "D" model which wasnt produced in large numbers was a very potent aircraft. Not a dogfighter like its replacement so in that respect it would not be able to hold its own. Though with its 100+ capabilty of reaching out and touching the enemy...it was never meant to have to dogfight too much. The problem with the F-111, F-4 & the F-14 were that they were older technology that was costing alot more to maintain, fly and keep up dated. The return on that investment wasnt worth the pay off, at least in the opinion of those that controled the purse strings...politicians. Prior to going away to the military I got the chance to see the remaining "Valkyrie" at the US Air Force Air Museum in Dayton, Ohio. Talk about a wicked looking aircraft. +1 on the YF-23 mentioned...heard it actually met more of the requirements for the ATF than the YF-22 did...but lost out in the political arena. |
Kick @ss!!!! w00t! |
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Where's Andy? The newest model of the Typhoon is here. ' target='_new'>  |
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The only one that should be considered is the F-14, and in speaking with my friends that wrenched them and now wrench the Superbug, well, none. The Superbug can do what the Tomcat did with far less manhours per flight hour than the aging Tomcat, as much as I hated to see it go. SG |
Nope. The F-20 was an old design(the f-5) pushed to its maximum limits. The F-16 that it lost out to was a brand new design. Updated old technology vs a new and much more capible aircraft . . . Im a HUGE f-5 fan, but no way would the f-20 have been a smarter decision then the f-16 |
F-4s were my first aircraft. Anybody who hasn't worked them just cannot fathom what maintenance pigs they are. We spent 50-70 million dollars a year in my one small (well not really) 24 aircraft unit on gas and parts. Now taking those A and B model lawn darts out of the boneyard and putting a decent datalink in them so they could be flown in "knights and squires" formations with F-15Es (with the WSO operating the lawn dart bomb truck UCAVs) would be sweet.  Yes, the F-4G was the undisputed king of SEAD, and the HTS lawn dart and EA-6B suck at destructive SEAD (launching AGM-88s and actually hitting anything). The EA-18G will be one hell of a standoff jammer and destructive SEAD platform. I can't wait to see them in service, the AF should have bought the F-15D weasel that they were offered. 
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Yup, it also was unmatched as a pain in the ass for maintenance, tied only by the beloved phantom. Most of the guys I worked F-4Gs with worked F-111s at some time also, and they had much to say about the pain in the ass it was to work on. When the maintenance man hours per flying hour are over 30-40 it's time to put them out to pasture, and the AF did. Of course for the "spark vark" they retired them without replacement, stupid asses. |
Maintance Pigs? Yes… Fearsome strike aircraft? Absolutely!!!! They were the only tactical strike aircraft the Ruskies singled out during the START talks… they absolutely feared the Ardvarks out of Upper Heyford and Lakenheath. ANdy |
WTF? |
I second that. Worked F-16A/B/C/D's and F-15A/B's before finally getting on F-4E/G's...the lawn dart spoiled me when it came to doing maintenance on the aircraft. I remember first seeing the F-4 Weapons Test set wheeled out for us to ring out the aircafts weapons system ...I about laughed my ass off at that monstrosity 
A "Strike Weasel" would have been an awesome bird to see, I think it would have been able to match and/or possibly easily surpass the F-4G Wild Weasel's capability. |
What about: 
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TSR-2, the UK cancelled it and was going to buy the F-111, then the Labour Government cancelled the F-111 buy…  TSR-2 History ANdy |
I take it you were weapons on them? Or were you WCS back before they got combined with Comm/Nav? I worked the GAC stuff so every quarter when we did bombing I spent a week in hell troubleshooting all the dumb bomb ABJ-7 and ARN-101 problems. 
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I think it was on Discovery Wings, but they mentioned how the Russians had enough agents working on the Arrow project to gain the needed experience with titanium to later build the MiG-25.
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And then we end up with the Tornado....which believe it or not has whole sytems taken straight from the F4 and the TSR2. I loved working on the F4 but as already mentioned they were not as friendly to work on as the Tornado. cheers Taffy |
never heard of it, so I googled FUCK YEAH  high res upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/F-16XL_loaded_with_500lb_bombs.jpg en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16XL |
It's been on the chopping block lately for early retirement because of the cost and manhours it takes to maintain it. Some are arguing that its role can be performed by the F/A-22 until its replacement (the F-35) comes into service. Still think that despite the cost to maintain them, they are still worth keeping in the inventory. |
Yep...Weapons Troop/462 (aka Load Toad), if it wasnt for the very plush assignment location of Clark Air Base...working the F-4's would have really sucked. Outside the gate was an Adult Disney Land  Loved the gun system on the F-4E...all nice and palletized for us. Sure beat the hell out of tearing the friggin gun apart piece by piece inside the aircraft like on the F-16's. |
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Andy Here's another great oldie and Navy related. I got to sit in this when it was up at Swansea airport being prepared to fly again in it's original colours. Now you may not like the new paint scheme but it did enable them to finish the project...financialy.  taffy |
www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/yf12~1.htm |
The blackbird was an awesome aircraft that sadly got passed by advanced technology. Still dont think Satellites can do as good of a job in a last minute situation as it could. Of course if you believe the "conspiracy theory" people out there...it really got replaced by something much more advanced and faster . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (in all seriousness...anythings possible with the military and its record of keeping secrets) |
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Here's me on the right with the first aircraft I ever worked on during my 4 years training. The (exact) same aircraft my father worked on when he was with the "Red Arrows" And in flight.....not me  The "Gnat" was a very (TINY) nimble and light aircraft...you could actualy lift it up of it's nose gear with very little upward force on the pito tube. Engine removal was a sinch as the whole airframe came in half with little work. Cheers Taffy |
While it's true the Tomcat was far more maintainance intensive than it's successor, I think it would still be a very serious threat to any other air force out there. -K |
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I agree! I can't believe I forgot to mention that. Perhaps the coolest fighter aircraft we never produced. I think the B-70 takes the cake for the coolest bomber though. -K |