Posted: 11/16/2006 12:23:44 PM EDT
I have a really long drive home from work. This gives my mind time to wander, which i hope explains this question.  Did our founding fathers have a British accent? I always think of them talking like we do, but they were still a colony and had pretty tight ties to Britain. When did we stop talking like that? |
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Very interesting question. Especially when you consider how some of their former territories, like Austrailia and South Africa, still have the "British", or a "British-like" accent, while others, like ours and Canada, don't. Bottom line, I don't know, but I find the question interesting. |
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Interesting question. One thing that occurs the me is that once we got over here (say after the first generation), new words were created via the interaction with the Indians, French, Spanish, etc. Similar to your question: How did the "Southern" accent develop? the New England accent? The latter (at least in Boston) probably came from the influx of Irish immigrants in the 1800's. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English linguistlist.org/ask-ling/accent.html |
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Interesting question, though I would posit they did have a British accent and did indeed have a foundation and heritage in English and it's vocabulary. There's a common misconception from a poor historic reference to Paul Reveere's ride. First, he never completed his mission due to being held at a British checkpoint. Second, his supposed hail of warning of "...the British are coming..." holds little water as many would have considered themselves British--so then what's the big woop? Yes, they did have British accents and linguistic nuances. |
They spoke 'Elizabethan English'… the nearest to it today according to linguistic historians is the dialects spoken in the southern foothills of the Appalachians. Interestingly, 'American English' is actually 'true' English and would have been familiar to William Sheakespear. The 'American' way of spelling, Fall instead of Autunm, Plow instead of Plough are the spellings that Sheakespear used. ANdy |
The other colonial countries are what I was thinking of. Even with Canada, you can still see some of the British influence coming through in both their speech and their spelling. They tend to put an extra 'u' into a lot of words. Colour, Flavour, etc... My Canadian girlfriend and I debate that one constantly. |
The reason for the extra 'u' in the 'other' colonies was that shortly after the founding of America, Britainhad a Civil War and became a 'commonwealth' under Cromwell and there was no King. When Cromwell died and they restored the monarchy, the only hier to the Throne lived in France in Exile and spoke French. It became 'cool' to use the French spellings to impress the King. Color became Coloure (the French spelling) and Fall was switched for Autumne the French version etc. The book 'The Mother Tongue' by Bill Bryson covers this whole subject of accents and spelling between England and America. www.amazon.com/Mother-Tongue-Bill-Bryson/dp/0380715430/sr=8-1/qid=1163713475/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-3703904-3505442?ie=UTF8&s=books ANdy |
| According to a linguistics expert I heard several years ago, at the time of the American Revolution the British sounded like the Americans. The "British" accent we think of today didn't develop until the 1800s. The British elite started trying to set themselves apart from the rest of spciety, and then the lower classes in Britain tried to sound like the elites. |
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Doubtful unless they came from England or were first generation. A People separated by a ocean before radio, television, and any form of long range voice communications would develop accents closest to whatever the dominate local accent was… by local I mean within 100 miles or less. Then you mix in groups who were or parents were German, Dutch, French, Irish, Spanish, ect. I strongly suspect the accent spoken by most here was nothing like that spoken in most of England. Then if you have been to England you relizes very many English don’t speak in what Americans traditionally think of as an English accent. |
Interesting! Thanks Andy. I think I'm going to have to get that book. Etymology has always fascinated me. Does that book make any mention of when we lost the Brittish accent? |
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The British don't really talk like that except when we're listening. When they sing they don't bother to do it except in musical comedies. As soon as we decided not to be English we stopped talking that way although I can kind of still do it although my one English ancestor came here in the 1830's. I can do Irish too.. "Them's not 'ors; them's me sisters." Regards, Mild Bill |
I had assumed that it was a result of us being a "melting pot" of different languages and cultures that resulted in American English. Does anyone have any idea how long families were here on average around the time of the revolution? |
ANdy, Question speaking of the letter "U"...when I was researching Mary Queen of Scots, I read that the name was changed from"Stewart" to"Stuart" once the Dauphin of France became her hubby because "w's did not exist in the French tongue...correct or any idea on that??? |
You never really did. It has changed a lot, but basis of 'American English' stayed fairly close to the original version… no French pollution!  If William Sheakespear was beamed forward in time to 2006 in England who would be totally lost, the form of speech, spellings and pronunciations would be completely alien to him. Hell, it's sometimes a foreign language to me and I live here! I regularly have to stop my daughter in mid rant, (who's English born and raised) and say 'English goddammit!' ANdy |
There is a 'w' in the french alphabet but they pronounce it different to 'anglos' more of a 'v' than a 'w' sound. 'u' is the nearest they have to a 'ew' sound. Linky to Phrench pronunciations… ANdy |
Ok, I'm pretty sure I've just realized that I know even less about the language I've spoken my whole life than I thought I did 20 minutes ago. I am rather pleased to see that part of 'American English' is the absence of a French influence. (That's another fun thing to pick on the Canadian girlfriend for.  )Accents in England are a complete mystery to me. I assume they vary by region like ours do, and I can hear the differences, but I have no idea what the significance of them is. One day I'm going to have to figure that out. |
Ahhhhh! Thanks!  [/hijack] |
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The English accent of 1776 is not the English accent of 2006. Languages are fluid things, the language of the pacific northwest in the US has changed noticably in my lifetime, and I'm not all that old. Was just talking about a similar subject with a european friend who was remarkably smug (as most europeans are) about the joke that goes "What do you call somebody who only speaks one language? American." All of the European languages have common roots and cross contamination. They barely qualify as seperate languages, they're just regional dialects long established. Like Texan, or Minnesotan, or Appalation, or Californian. I have an easier time understanding educated German than rural Minnesotan. Of course where the obvious fact that languages are fluid things really becomes a problem is the Biblical story of the tower of Babel, for the literalists anyway. The founders spoke like Americans of the time. |
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that's right on.
And that's ridiculously oversimplified. You could maybe pick up on a few of the Latinate forms in one language by knowing another, but I'd like to see you learn French and then try to understand Lithuanian. Oh, they're not geographically close enough? Fine. Do Flemish. |
They vary hugely!!! Now no one speak's like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins!!!! Look at a map of England, (well ignore Wales and Scotland… they speak some totally garbled version of English)… Head south of London and you have Surrey, Sussex Hampshire, That is the least corrupted English, as you head north the accents get stronger and harder to decypher. By the time you get to Newcastle, they speak 'Geordie'… a form of English totally baffles me!! ANdy |
I have allways been told/read it is the residents of the outter banks of NC, SC and GA that are most like Old english....I guess this has changed in the last 10 years of Yankee(US northerner) influx.... Interesting to say the least Vito. I did social work in the appalacians in NC and they talk differnt compared to my redneck ass.. There are a lot of similarties in the 'South' in word usage… I speak a relatively 'pure' English with little slang or dialect and when I filled out this quiz I got this result: ***Your Linguistic Profile:*** 40% General American English 30% Dixie 25% Yankee 0% Midwestern 0% Upper Midwestern What Kind of American English Do You Speak? http://www.blogthings.com/whatkindofamericanenglishdoyouspeakquiz/ |
| Didn't read the whole thing, but I'll answer basically. I studied a lot of founding history/politics when I was at UF. Some, like Wilson, had thick accents because a lot of the lesser known founders were recent (relatively speaking) immigrants. And the better known founders were not too far removed from the first colonists. It would have depended upon the region (from what I understand, there was an effort to retain the accent in the southern colonies) and the class. The upper classes of the colonies tried to keep the accent (London accent if they could). It was all about being above the common colonist. When the politics changed and they wanted independence, they couldn't just turn off the accent. Look at how they wrote--there is a lot of indication that there was still an English accent based upon the writing of major documents like the Declaration of Independence. Also, don't forget men like Franklin spent a lot of time in England and blended in quite well. |
Interesting site. In the Army, people from the south said I sounded like I was from England, while people from the west coast thought I sounded more like a hillbilly. My results: Your Linguistic Profile: 55% General American English 35% Yankee 5% Dixie 0% Midwestern 0% Upper Midwestern |
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A really great question, don't know the answer. Firstly there is no one "English" accent, anymore than there is one "proper American accent. Secondly the early settlers didn't all come from the same parts of Britain, so there would be a mingling of speach amongst the colonists. Over here we can get a variation of accent / dialect words within a distance of around 30 miles so having a different accent when separated by 3000 miles isn't surprising. The English upper class accent came about because there was a deliberate move by them to speak and pronounce words differently from the lower classes, it was called the "great vowel shift", eg room is pronounced rum. It's been already said here that how Shakespear spoke is not how you would imagine. His accent would be more like a northern working class accent. Some of his sonnets only rythme if you use a "Coronation Street" instead of a "BBC posh" accent. And as to spelling Shakespeare / Shakespear hardly ever spelt his name the same way twice, there are even variations in the same manuscript. Just for the record I'm only 22 miles from Stratford on Avon and a couple of people (the Winslows) from here sailed over on the Mayflower. Which probably explains everthing  |
Not to be a PITA but the Great Vowel Shift happened in the 1300s-1500s just after the printing press became widespread. The change you're referring to happened in the early 1800s.
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Coming from a Texan where they can't speak either English or Mexican correctly. www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/rednecks/rednecks.html Many words commonly used in America today such as Hillbillies and Rednecks have their origins in our Scottish roots. While the following three terms are associated today with the American South and southern culture, their origins are distinctly Scottish and Ulster-Scottish (Scots-Irish), and date to the mass immigration of Scottish Lowland and Ulster Presbyterians to America during the 1700’s. HILLBILLY (Hillbillies) The origin of this American nickname for mountain folk in the Ozarks and in Appalachia comes from Ulster. Ulster-Scottish (The often incorrectly labeled “Scots-Irish”) settlers in the hill-country of Appalachia brought their traditional music with them to the new world, and many of their songs and ballads dealt with William, Prince of Orange, who defeated the Catholic King James II of the Stuart family at the Battle of the Boyne, Ireland in 1690. Supporters of King William were known as “Orangemen” and "Billy Boys" and their North American counterparts were soon referred to as "hillbillies". It is interesting to note that a traditional song of the Glasgow Rangers football club today begins with the line, "Hurrah! Hurrah! We are the Billy Boys!" and shares its tune with the famous American Civil War song, "Marching Through Georgia". Stories abound of American National Guard units from Southern states being met upon disembarking in Britain during the First and Second World Wars with the tune, much to their displeasure! One of these stories comes from Colonel Ward Schrantz, a noted historian, Carthage Missouri native, and veteran of the Mexican Border Campaign, as well as the First and Second World Wars, documented a story where the US Army's 30th Division, made up of National Guard units from Georgia, North and South Carolina and Tennessee arrived in the United Kingdom…”a waiting British band broke into welcoming American music, and the soldiery, even the 118th Field Artillery and the 105 Medical Battalion from Georgia, broke into laughter. The excellence of intent and the ignorance of the origins of the American music being equally obvious. The welcoming tune was “Marching Through Georgia.” REDNECKS The origins of this term Redneck are Scottish and refer to supporters of the National Covenant and The Solemn League and Covenant, or "Covenanters", largely Lowland Presbyterians, many of whom would flee Scotland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) during persecutions by the British Crown. The Covenanters of 1638 and 1641 signed the documents that stated that Scotland desired the Presbyterian form of church government and would not accept the Church of England as its official state church. Many Covenanters signed in their own blood and wore red pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term "Red neck", (rednecks) which became slang for a Scottish dissenter*. One Scottish immigrant, interviewed by the author, remembered a Presbyterian minister, one Dr. Coulter, in Glasgow in the 1940's wearing a red clerical collar -- is this symbolic of the "rednecks"? Since many Ulster-Scottish settlers in America (especially the South) were Presbyterian, the term was applied to them, and then, later, their Southern descendants. One of the earliest examples of its use comes from 1830, when an author noted that "red-neck" was a "name bestowed upon the Presbyterians." It makes you wonder if the originators of the ever-present "redneck" joke are aware of the term’s origins - Rednecks? *Another term for Presbyterians in Ireland was a "Blackmouth". Members of the Church of Ireland (Anglicans) used this as a slur, referring to the fact that one could tell a Presbyterian by the black stains around his mouth from eating blackberries while at secret, illegal Presbyterian Church Services in the countryside. CRACKER Another Ulster-Scot term, a "cracker" was a person who talked and boasted, and "craic" (Crack) is a term still used in Scotland and Ireland to describe "talking", chat or conversation in a social sense ("Let’s go down to the pub and have a craic"; "what's the craic"). The term, first used to describe a southerner of Ulster-Scottish background, later became a nickname for any white southerner, especially those who were uneducated. And while not an exclusively Southern term, but rather referring in general to all Americans, the origins of this word are related to the other three. GRINGO Often used in Latin America to refer to people from the United States, “gringo” also has a Scottish connection. The term originates from the Mexican War (1846-1848), when American Soldiers would sing Robert Burns’s “Green Grow the Rashes, O!”, or the very popular song “Green Grows the Laurel” (or lilacs) while serving in Mexico, thus inspiring the locals to refer to the Yankees as “gringos”, or “green-grows”. The song “Green Grows the Laurel” refers to several periods in Scottish and Ulster-Scottish history; Jacobites might “change the green laurel for the “bonnets so blue” of the exiled Stewart monarchs of Scotland during the Jacobite Rebellions of the late 1600’s – early 1700’s. Scottish Lowlanders and Ulster Presbyterians would change the green laurel of James II in 1690 for the “Orange and Blue” of William of Orange, and later on, many of these Ulstermen would immigrate to America, and thus “change the green laurel for the red, white and blue.” Another account of Gringo from Tom Mathews "Gringo" is a corrected form of griego as used in the ancient Spanish expression "hablar en griego", that is, to speak an unintelligible language or "to speak Greek." Which is also a Latin expression “Graecum est; non potest legi” (It is Greek; it cannot be read). Verification: Diccionario Castellano of 1787 noted that in Malaga "foreigners who have a certain type of accent which keeps them from speaking Spanish easily and naturally" were referred to as gringos, and the same term was used in Madrid, particularly for the Irish. As you can see the word gringo was documented in Spanish dictionaries long before the Spanish (Mexican) American war. A few years ago, Jim MacNeil (MacNeil-Lehrer) did a series on the English Language, one of the more interesting portions was that dealing with the southern Appalachians, where the folks moved in and stayed in a more or less isolated circumstance. There was mini-series from the BBC on PBS several years ago where Alastair Cooke announced that the dialect was so different that most English couldn't really understand it either. |
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But in answer to the original question, some had British acents, some had Highland Scots accents, some had Lowland Scots accents, some had Irish accents, French Huguenots in South Carolina, dutch and Swedes in New york, etc. I expect that some regional differences were arising already, especially from the exposure to other colonists and the different indian tribal words. |
Wow, this has to be the most interesting question I have ever read here! Thanks! Interested in the replies. |
Was out at the range the other day when this guy walks up with a co-worker of mine. He's asking questions and talking all "weird". When he leaves I ask my co-worker: "who's he a foreigner?" I was thinking british or austrailian. my co-worker says no, he's from Boston. to sum up: They still talk like them |
Now that just strikes me as insulting to the British. They have a somewhat pleasant sounding accent. That Boston accent is like driving nails into my ears. 
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+1 This is correct from what I've read several places on the net that specialize in language. |
Correction accepted
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Don't know but we have a long history of pronouncing words completely different to their spelling. how about "Nauton Beauchamp" pronounced Norton Beacham, or Cholmondesley pronounced Chumley, Leominster = Lemster, Bicester = Bister, Berkshire = Barksher Malvern = Molven |
| According to Thomas Sowell's book "Black Rednecks and White Liberals," the southern dialect, as well as the behavior pattern of southerners in the 18th and 19 centuries derived from the way their ancestors lived in the rural areas of England, Scotland and Ireland. BTW, the book is a good read....kind of dry, but still a VERY interesting read. |
That sounds about right. Either way, Thomas Sowell is a great man. A real thinker, that's for sure. 
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It's still possible to hear Elizabethan English amongst the last generation in the Ozarks, across the most rural parts of Tennessee and Kentucky, and into Appalachia. Every once in a while an old timer will use an old word that has fallen out of modern usage for so long that no modern person has a clue to the meaning. |