[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 10mm question (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/29/2006 5:28:32 PM EDT
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So what is the deal with the 10mm? Was it adopted by a branch or branches of federal law enforcement and then dropped? The round seems popular on this board but I rarely see any weapons or ammo. What makes it so much better than the .40? |
most real operators carry it! Just ask me, Chuck Norris, or even Stephen Segal how deadly a round it is. |
Ok so how deadly is it? |
OH NO YOU DI'INT!!! |
In short: The FBI decided to go with a new round; in testing, the 10mm was the best. However, the recoil was decided to be "too much" for female and smaller-statured male agents. So they cooked up a new loading for the 10mm to bring down the recoil, yet barely keep it above the .45ACP in the tests to win out. The .40S&W was then created from this concept, to be the down-loaded 10mm in a dedicated factory format. ETA: Link to 10mm "fan site" - home.earthlink.net/~gnappi/ |
The 10mm was adopted just before the whole "Politically Correct / Equal Opportunity for Women and Wussies" era. After it was determined that women and wussies couldn't control it, it was loaded down to more "manageable" power levels. Then they just shortened the case to a lenght that could hold the wussie level of powder and *POOF* you have the 40 S&W. 10mm rocks! edited to add: Shit, beat by a minute and a half by someone who was reading my mind. (But I like the way I described the history better.  ) 45 yeards away, broadside, one shot. |
If 10 is tops what happens when I put it on 11? Is that like 1 more? ETA: Sorry for the "Spinaltap Refs" |
Shot placement would answer that question. If I shoot you in the foot, not very. In the forehead...very. Not sure about .gov agencies adopting the round. The 10mm appears to have a great powder charge. I assume it has a bit more overall power but i honestly have not looked at the ballistics for that round vs a .40 S&W. It should be easy enough to look up the velocity comparisons. Are you deciding between both rounds? If your goal is to have the 'deadliest' round, there are other options. Between the two, I would go .40 since they are cheaper to shoot. Of course, the 10mm has that 'cool factor' thing happening. |
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10 mm was first conceived by the late Jeff Cooper, who imagined a 200gr projectile traveling at 1200+ fps. It was developed by Norma, and adopted by the FBI. They noticed that the 10 was breaking guns and female / smaller agents were complaining about recoil. So, they worked with Federal and throttled back the load until it was 180 / 924 fps. FBI bought guns from S&W (the 1076). Smith & Wesson found that they could achieve the same performance using a shorter case, which they developed with Winchester to produce the .40S&W. The same performance as the FBI Light Load, in a package that fit in the same circumference grips as a 9mm. |
I currently own an XD-40. I was just wondering what all the hubbub was about regarding the 10mm. Thank you all for the help. |
Also accurate. However, the "breaking guns" part may actually be the problem with the Colt 1911s chambered in 10mm. They were cracking the frame in the area just below where the slide stop catches the slide. This problem was soved by simply milling away the metal that would otherwise develope a crack. |
In terms of power, the 10mm is to the 40 S&W what the 44 magnum is to the 44 Special. The distinction is that the 10mm was developed before the 40 S&W and the 44 Magnum was developed after the 44 Special. |
It was 1 more louder. Sheesh! |
Pre-enhanced. Sweet! |
How far is 45 yeards? 
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A feeble atempt to "re-invent" the wheel. (.45 ACP). The feds wanted something more after they got their asses handed to them in the Miami shootout. Most agents were still carrying .38 special wheelguns. The 9mm was not considered effective (agreed). The 10MM while effective, proved too hot for the limp/weak wrists of the FBI. They downloaded it, and the .40 S&W was born. The US LE agencies followed suit. The 40 S&W is OK. It beats fist fighting, but the .45 ACP was already out there. The 40 S&W was just adopted by some Fed beurocrat as an answer to their problem, when one already existed. (.45 ACP) How it came to be is interesting, but that doesn't really address the question of it's efectiveness in a firefight. IMHO, when punching holes in the human body, bigger is better. Blunt force trauma is the name of the game. All that said, a 40 S&W in the heart beats a .45 in the gut anytime. Shot placement. You can't beat it. Carry what you want, just be good with what you carry. 
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A 1911 chambered in 10mm will cost you around $900 - 1000 new (Kimber, Dan Wesson.) A Glock 20 costs round $550 new. Don't know about the price of the Witness. Colt Delta Elites can sometimes be found as cheap as $600 but the nice ones can cost over twice as much. |
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The 10mm is loved because it is one of the closest things to having a rifle in a semi auto platform. It was loved when the FBI adopted it but when it was to powerful for the FBI that was one of it's hardest hits. Though it's making a comeback, though slow, the 10mm is one of the famous yet least owned cartrages. Also with a 10mm you have a cartrage that can do almost everything. It can take down bears, take down 2 legged pests and turn heads at a gun range, the only thing you have to do is change the ammo. From bear gun to defense gun with an ammo change, I'd like to see you do that with a 9mm or even a 40 S&W (sometimes called by the 10mm fans 40 Soft & Weak) That's my $0.02. |
| the 10mm is simply awesome. its the most powerful auto pistol round that fits in a normal sized gun. I shoot the Glock 20. it has the same capacity as the glock 22 15 rounds. bullet velocity is very high on the 10mm. 180s between 1150 and 1300 fps. 200s at 1200. double taps 135 grain load is frighting. 1600 fps for 767 fpe! and thats from the 4.6 inch glock. a .357 mag shoots 125s at 1450. its more powerfull than a .357 mag yet recoil in a semi auto is alot less than the .357 revolver. recoil is like a snappy .45 auto. |
Everything above is true. I love my Glock 20 a great deal and will be adding a 29 to the collection soon. |
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Did someone say 10mm? A freind of mine gave me some hot loads one day, those things were stout, I can't remember who made them, and really wish I had a chrono to use. I really want to go on a hog hunt one of these days. ETA: ID's Dan Wesson Razorback and Kimber Eclipse II. ' target='_new'>  |
They would almost have to be made by Double Tap, maybe Georgia Arms. Sweet pistols! I have a Kimber Stainless Target II. |
| You all have forgotten that one of the things that brought the 10mm down was overpenetration due to poor bullet design. I remember reading a story of a shoot out with some bad guys. The FBI agents shot him a number of times, but he did not go down! Seems the bullets went right through him and did not expand. After the .40S&W was conceived there were better bullets to choose from. |
One more louder (noticeable) requires twice the amplifier power. Twice as loud requires 10X the power. "Bullets" on the History channel, if you can believe anything you see on THC, made it clear that the law enforcement round has to be shoot-able to the lowest common denominator which is now small women. How many shoot outs have resulted in LEOs dying due to this inferior round? All in the name of PC! |
NO! Auto-pistol rounds usually headspace on the case mouth. Revolver rounds, by the rim. The .40 would go too far into the 10mm chamber and the FP may not even strike the primer. Also the .40 case head would not be supported and you would have a major KB if it went off. BTW: Heres my 10mm Kimber Eclipse Custom II  
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Thanks, I thought it might be too good to be true. |
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Unless you were using moon clips in a 10mm revolver, 40sw would work like the 38/357 concept. |
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postwhores 10mm Dan Wesson CBOB Cylinder & Slide Inc, Tactical II hammer STI S-7 Sear Briley disconnector Wilson blue hammer strut pin EB hammer strut EB SS grip saftey EB tactical SS thumb safety EB mag release EB Slide stop EGW o/s firing pin stop Davidson Horned Lizard G-10 grips Trigger job set@ 3.75 Reliability tune Frame undercut  
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Sweet!  I've always loved the way DW finishes their stainless pistols, and the lack of front serrations looks beautiful. I've never seen those grips before; another beautiful feature. And the trimmed grip is the cat's ass. |
Witnesses run 300-400$ you can also just buy the upper half (250$ish)if you have a 45acp. I got this Delta for 475$ at the local gun shop the other day I felt it was a good deal so I jumped on it 
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