Posted: 8/25/2006 12:28:17 PM EDT
 Posted on Fri, Aug. 25, 2006 More training, less parading urged Army chief says use of soldiers’ time needs to be studied By CHUCK CRUMBO [email protected] Army chief Gen. Peter Schoomaker worries that soldiers are spending too much time marching in parades and “filling the bleachers” for retirement ceremonies. So, on Thursday, the Army’s four-star leader challenged a group of trainers meeting at Fort Jackson to find better and more efficient ways to train soldiers. “Look through the eyes of those you’re training and ask yourself, in their view: ‘Is this the best use of their time?’” Schoomaker said. Addressing some 200 people attending a conference of brigade commanders and command sergeant majors who train soldiers, Schoomaker praised troops and their families for their dedication and willingness to endure frequent deployments and even extensions in combat zones. He was in Iraq last week, meeting soldiers of the 172nd Stryker Brigade Combat Team. Two weeks before their yearlong tour was up, the soldiers learned they would stay another four months. Both the troops and their families, whom he later visited at Fort Wainwright, Alaska, the brigade’s home station, said they weren’t happy but would deal with it, Schoomaker said. “We can’t be sitting around and crying in our tea cups,” Schoomaker said. “Sometimes you give more than you get.” Most new soldiers are motivated and want to be challenged, Schoomaker said, but they also want to be respected — and there’s no room in the training program for hazing or mindless detail work that he referred to as “painting rocks.” The obstacle a soldier faces must be the task, not the drill sergeant or company captain, he said. “You can’t do enough to help people survive on the battlefield.” Schoomaker acknowledged the Army has made a number of changes in recent years and will continue to do so as it retools to meet the emerging threat of terrorism. “We’re kind of building an airplane while it’s in flight, and we can’t stop.” www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/local/15356164.htm http://www.thestate.com 
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Now, if only that would become official policy for the non-BCT Army... Everybody hates the goddamn parades except the folks in the bleachers anyway... In Korea, it's even worse since you are pretty much for-sure going to have 4 change-of-command cerimonies every year, within 4 months of each other.... But by the time you're the one changing command, you forget how much you hated the ceremony when you had to march in it... |
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daily life for soldiers under the rank of E-5 cutting grass, painting, day laborer, police call, siting in the motor pool, putting up with stupid bullshit.....IE waiting around for hours just to do something that takes 15 mins then your done. funeral details, red cycle taskings, |
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I understand this sentiment. I stood at parade rest in the sun for many, many hours and got mightally sick of it. At the same time, you have to understand what it's for. It's for honoring men and women who have borne the burden for the defence of our nation for at least 20 years. I find it unacceptable that people think it's cool to just toss those people aside and, boot them in the ass out the door. Those who havent' been in the Military......(I actually can't believe this man is a leader)....Understand those on the proper training cycle pick up these taskings. It teaches young soldiers that you just won't go out without some thanks. That was an assinine comment. EDIT: "Best use of time." I won't even comment on how funny THAT remark is. |
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Some people have clearly forgotten lessons of the past. Von Steuben............ Anyone remember THAT name? That's what we do what we do. Responding to orders in an instinctual manner. I've been there. Snow, rain heat- It sucks. It sucks bad. You can't just throw away D&C. You can't throw away honoring old soldiers. I feel that general's comments are out of line and offensive. If the Army doesn't take care of their own who will? I'm shamed, as a soldier, that we're having this debate. |
sing it brother. the story of my life. |
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Yeah, they suck, but retirement and change of command ceremonies have a reason. It's not like they take up a month. At most a division chance of command might take up a few hours a day for a week of practice. When I was at Campbell, we wasted more time doing "Trash Eagle," that's police call in the field for a couple weeks then for ceremonies. It's also not as if there aren't a ton of other needed shit that has to be done besides field training, and range time. If he wants to get rid of time wasters, then every post should have civillian gardeners and janitors for barracks and offices. Plus civillians pick up trash along the roads. That kills more time in a month of a unit in white cycle (again the 101st) then change of command ceremonies, and funeral details combined. How about museum usher? Infantrymen being glorified security guards at the ammo points, gates, and rail heads? More wastes of time that don't at least have the purpose of honoring those who've given at least a couple decades of their live, have given their lives, or are moving upward. He could also save everyone a few minutes everytime they go outside by reversing Shinsecki's last uniform change and get rid of the berets. Boonie hats for all I say. |
D&C should have been thrown away a LONG time ago, except for the Old Guard and similar dedicated cerimonial units. Von Steuben's manual, and the system that has been developed from it were critical at the time because of the METHOD OF WARFARE that was used. D&C wasn't about 'cerimonial' events back then. It was about movement on the battlefield, and the forming and holding of a line-of-battle. When modern weapons made such combat obselete, it made D&C obselete. As for the cerimonies, there are much better things to do with enlisted soldiers & junior NCOs than take 2-3 days of time to practice for a 45min 'performance'. Now, this may be different when you're on a red-amber-green cycle, and when your soldiers would otherwise be conducting post-police, area beutification, or some other make-work detail. But for Ft Jackson's AIT and BCT troops (the subjet of the Genral's comments - P.S. This General is the Army's member of the JCS), or for non-combat-arms units that have an operational mission even when not deployed, you actually LOSE valuable working or training time to go parading... Further, the general intent of Gen Schoomaker WRT the future seems to be the elimination of all the 70s-80s garrison bullshit that was invented to keep an Army that would never go to war busy. We no longer polish boots, or starch uniforms. D&C is pretty well blown off in BCT & AIT... And finally someone has remembered the stupid part of parading.... The last piece, to finish the 'fix' is this: DO NOT WASTE YOUR SOLDIERS TIME. If we can get that drilled into the head of each new group of officers & NCOs, it will go a long way to getting rid of the 'bad' old stuff that the Army's been hung up on for so long... In the end, the big 'issue' is the traditional perception that soldiers time is 'free', or that because you had to sit thru the shit, your subordinates should suffer thru it too. The fact is that the PVT who is detailed to stand in a 10x10 square for Change of Command isn't going to learn anything from the experience - he's going to count thru waiting for 'Pass in Review' so he can get back to work, all the while sitting there thinking 'If that guy up there really was here 14 years ago, why doesn't he remember how pointless it was now?'... +1 to General Schoomaker for this... While I don't like the direction they're taking the Army (Stryker, FCS, the obsession with light/airmobile forces at the cost of firepower & survivability, etc), the fixes on the garrison side have all been great... Unfortunately, all the higher-ups like the black woolly hat - to them it symbolizes their desire to light-ify everything... So we're stuck with it (when the PC or boonie hat would be a much better choice - boonie hats would work especially well with the 'grab-and-go' style of the ACUs, and it's the most functional type of hat (360 degree sun-shade)...).... |
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D and C is waste of time? Get real. It is as much a part of soldiering as knowing how to use your weapon. To cast aside centuries worth of customs and traditions is ignorant and detrimental to the good of the service. Funeral details are a service to the families of the deceased veterans and I for one felt honored to be a part of it. If doing this one thing for our honored dead is too much for someone, then move over and let somone with some honor and pride take your place. |
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If the "Brass" want to eliminate B.S., they can start with some of the stupid CTT stuff and lengthy "train ups" of things they don't apply to deployments to Iraq & Afghanistan. Our Guard unit wasted 5 out of almost 6 months of training at Ft. Bliss before deploying to Iraq. Most of what we were taught and trained on was a total waste of time compared to the real world experiences of combat in Iraq. Not only did they waste our time, but the unit's time we were to replace. They could have been gone 5 months earlier and we could have been over with our deployment sooner. The guys (and gals) in Alaska are getting f*ck*d because the Army has yet to learn what does and does not need to be prepared for in our current wars. Compass and map training for Basic Training/AIT recruits is fine, but in the real world of actual war in country, Medivac and EOD needs to know a 10-digit GPS grid and you'll be calling that in over a secured radio so your "fills" better be right so you can talk to them in the first place. I've got dozens of other examples, but you Vets probably know what I'm talking about. F.A.S. Out |
Uh, yeah... because he was, and he could. I thank the lord that George S. Patton was there in that time and place and not Shellikashvilli. |