Posted: 8/10/2006 6:09:03 PM EDT
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In the "Crossroads" episode there is a British soldier who is in a meeting with Col. Sink and they are planning a rescue operation of 140 or so British Red Devils who are stuck on the wrong side of the river. The British soldier doing the planning is obviously an officer, but also has an 101st "Airborne" patch. Did they train foreign officers and allow them to wear the patch? bd |
Well, The Thin Red Line felt like it was about 10 hours long. Does that count? 
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Maybe? OK, he had dual citizenship which allowed him to serve in the British Army in an American uniform.  I don't know about you, but I generally swim across rivers with my head OUT of them. Again, I gave you your answer. I've got the book, read "A Bridge Too Far", and have a degree in history, and I stayed at a Holiday Inn the night before I answered your question. They generally clothed the men with uniforms from quartermaster stores because they were: A) soaking ass wet B) dirty and torn from prolonged combat operations I wasn't a 101st reenactor, I was in the 101st 1987-1990. |
A rant? Please. Get a fucking sense of humor. I hear they are found in team arfcom store. |
2nd plt D Co, 2/327 1992-1995 |
I'm looking for a real explanation based on fact, not your resume. If you know that this unit used 101st uniforms for this operation, just say so. I don't care what they did in other operations. The directors took great care to make things accurate in this series. I thought that this detail held a greater story behind it, hence the thread. My wild assed guess would be that we trained some foreign officers, just as we do now, and maybe they were able to wear the 101st insignia. Thanks, bd |
No shit? Really? Hmmm, where would I get the facts if not based on something. Perhaps my resume provides the knowledge base to provide an answer? Or maybe I through in relevant and irrelevant info for shits and giggles?
I did. he swam the fucking river. he was wet. they gave hm dry clothes. it's pretty simple.
Your guess is wrong. The Brits didn't need us to train them. they'd been fighting since 1939. While we had liason officers, they would normally have worn the uniform of their own country. Sorry, i usually don't get so pissy on the net, but I gave you the answer. Is 15 your age? 101, I was D 2/327th Sep-Nov 1987, then B 2/327th! No Slack! (11B working as an 11H for a while, DA didn't like it) |
Nope, I think you're thinking of "The Last Patrol", where they are going across the river in rubber rafts to get German prisoners for interrogation. The Quad-50 (and other 30 cals) opened up as they were coming back. The Quad-.50 was doing anti-air duty in "Bastogne" espisode that re-aired last night. |
You're the one with your panties in a wad. This was your original answer: "Quoted: he swam a river in the Fall. he was wet and cold. The Americans gave him a clean, dry uniform." Then you puffed your chest up about your service. I thank you for your service, but I asked a different question. If you don't know the answer for sure and are offering an opinion, don't act like you know it as a fact. If I missed somewhere in the show where the officer said, "thanks for the uniform blokes," please point it out to me. I'm just looking for something more than, "I said so, therefore it is." It's called evidence, support, footnotes, links, etc. You served in the 101st Airborne, I get it, and I thank you again for your service, but how does that make you an authority on this episode of BOB? This is a very operation specific question. If, however, you know of some rule that prevents any British officer from wearing any US Army insignia that was in effect during WWII, please state it. Is there something in the "making of" documentary that explains this? These are the types of things that would help me believe that it was a just a borrowed uniform. Again, your original response was: Quoted: he swam a river in the Fall. he was wet and cold. The Americans gave him a clean, dry uniform. Forgive me if I seem testy, I assure you that I'm not. But, I would just like a little more information from someone who has something substantive to add. So, it's in your court: anything of substance come to mind? A cite from "A Bridge Too Far"? Anything?  bd |
When he walks over to the map, he points, describes it, and says.....*ahem*......... "I swam it myself last night." |
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Please tell me no one is using "made for TV" movies for their only source of history. It's a damn good show(which I own), with quite a bit of factual info in it, but it's "made for TV". For christs sake folks(mainly Bludduk), quit taking this so seriously. If you want history look other places besides the TV.  |
Classic false attribution of an argument. There are historical elements to this "TV" show. It's based on some fact, right? Captain Winters does exist, right? We won WWII, didn't we? My original question, before all the "know it alls" showed up, was whether or not there some use of the 101st insignia by foreign officers. Really, my question does not have anything to do with the TV show except that there was an example to use. I asked because these things interest me. For example, I've seen threads here discussing pictures of Air Force soldiers who had Ranger tabs. That's pretty uncommon. Those soldiers were probably PJs. If the BOB example was just a Hollywood mistake, that's fine, I would just like a little more info if someone has some. If you have none, move along...  bd |
Got it. We're not communicating. If you can't see the difference in my question, that's cool. You're assuming that he got the uniform from the US, I'm not. bd ETA: Good example of how to provide meaningful discussion on BOB here link |
Dude, You were fucking told the truth in the VERY FIRST REPLY to your thread. You keep going on and on saying he's an adviser who wears US insignia. Col Dobey spent at least a week with the 101 after swimming the Rhine river. Considering he probably didn't swim the Rhine fully clothed with a ruck on his back, he needed something to wear. Do you think the 101 had a supply of Brit uniforms? No they didn't, they had a supply of US uniforms with the Chicken sewn on. They gave a uniform to Col Dobey so he wouldn't have to walk around in his underwear. If you've never seen late October in Northern Europe it isn't the warmest place in the world. Like I said, this is a TV show(a damned good one, with much factual information), based on a non-fiction book which is based on real life. It is still a Hollywood production. If you're looking for history, look elsewhere. The library would be a good place. You might want to try getting outside the US to see a little bit of the world, as well. As far as allowing other nations to wear US insignia, it all depends on the unit and the individual. I work with a Jordanian Major, who does not wear a patch. I also work near a Brit Captain who does wear our unit patch. I have worked with Aussie and Brit LNOs that do wear US unit patches. I've worked with other LNOs that do not. Your Air Force idea does not compare. The Ranger tab just means he went through a REALLY hard school, and graduated. Air Force Airmen(not Soldiers) wear the parent Army unit's insignia when assigned to that unit. |
ANTICHRIST! (ETA:   )9th Infantry Division (reenacted) here AAA-0! |
DUDE, you are not reading my question and are changing the argument. Just answer how you know Col. Dobey borrowed the uniform! Did it come from a book? Did someone say it in the movie (besides the fact that he said he swam the river)? All I'm asking is for you, since you know it to be true, is just to enlighten me on how you know this. Again, if I missed some reference in the show that explains this (besides the fact that he swam the river), PLEASE TELL ME. I don't have my box set to watch right now. If you are just assuming he borrowed the uniform because he swam the river, then you are another know it all who is talking out of their ass. I'm looking for more than internet historians telling me so (read above posts where I state this in detail). Surely, you don't believe every post you read on net just because someone calls you DUDE and tells you to shut up. Why is it so hard for the people who are answering the question to give me some kind of support for their "fact"? If you don't have any more information than what you assume from watching the episode, then you have nothing to offer here. Move along. Let me get you started with some acceptable answers: 1. "Dude, Col. Dobey borrowed the uniform. He says, "thanks for the uniform" at 25:06 into the episode. 2. "Dude, read 'Red Devil.' That book totally explains how the RDs worked with the 101st and there is specific mention of the exchange of uniforms/insignia." 3. "Dude, I don't know, but I would assume it's because he had to swim the river. That's all we can deduce from watching the episode. Who cares anyway?" 4. "Dude, my granny banged Col. Dobey. He bragged that he stole some 101st insignia and that he would wear it just to piss off US soldiers." bd |
Dude, I would recommend contacting the director of "Part 5 Crossroads," Tom Hanks, the writer, Erik Jendresen or the costume designers Anna Sheppard. Sadly, you won't be able to ask Stephen Ambrose if he knows. If it isn't already mentioned in the book. A reasonable answer has already been given. I doubt you'll find a better one through this thread. In what I've read of military histories, an officers dress is typically only mentioned if it's important to the story, or otherwise interesting. I hate when people ask a rather arcane question on the internet and then get pissy when people try to help them. |
Dude, I hate it when people act like they know something (not you) when they don't and are too arrogant to admit/know the difference. Jeebus, I would have faded into oblivion with the non-answer to my question, if I didn't have to keep responding to the BS and getting attacked with straw man arguments. Why should I just give up because of someone's arrogance/ignorance? Have you ever started a thread that got trashed by someone who wasn't interested in giving an informed response, but just said, "go away boy, you're bothering me with all of these details like evidence...ACCEPT MY AUTH-OR-I-TIE"? Pretty frustrating, but judging by the lack of substantive responses, I will just have to find some info other places. Quite frankly, it makes no difference to me. I asked here because I thought the military historian nerdlingers on this board would have a quick answer. We could've gotten to this point in three posts. I'm going to paint the house--more fun than this. bd |
They did. You seem to think because they cannot back up the answer chapter and verse it is somehow unacceptable and they are talking out of their @$$. The simple fact is that it is not stated in the series why he is wearing that particular uniform, so all you will find is speculation. The most probable reason for it would be what has been stated already; the brit's uniform is soaked because he swam the river the previous night and he drew a replacement from the 101st until his uniform is suitable for wear. After you simply dismissed the answer because it wasn't what you wanted to hear, those who wrote the responses simply gave you information that would show that they are qualified in making whatever statements that they have made. Until you can show similar experience, I suggest you STFU. The only one showing arrogance or ignorance is you, everyone else is speaking from historical knowledge or experience, or both. To sum it up; you've already gotten the best answer that you will get multiple times. I suggest that you shut up and stop attacking those who have responded because you didn't get the answer you want. |
Thank you, at least you admit it. I'm going to say this one more time: I just wanted to know if that was the basis for the assertion, i.e. speculation. I don't see why it was so hard to say that. All I got a bunch of posturing because people thought I was challenging them personally. I was not, I was challenging their bare assertion--it's called a discussion/argument--lots of adults do it order to tease out information and LEARN things. So freaking sensitive, get over yourself. Oh yeah, this is ri-damn-diculous: "Until you can show similar experience, I suggest you STFU." So, I have to be former Airborne to ask questions about the 101st? Was Ambrose? Was he qualified to ask questions? Hint: these are rhetorical questions. bd |