[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Directv question (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/4/2006 2:49:58 PM EDT
| I have two eyes onmy dish, how many receivers can I use? |
 Is this your dish? Look here to figure out what dish you have: www.tech-faq.com/directv-satellite-dishes.shtml I can answer any question you might have. -Troy SBCA-Certified DirecTV Installer |
I greatly appreciate any information, thanks! |
I live in Washington (it never rains here) and I have NEVER had a rain caused outage with my DTV. The only time I have had problems is when it's been snowing, and then all I had to do was sweep the snow off the dish. |
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The DirecTV dish, regardless of the number of LNB, can support several rooms. The poster earlier who had five dishes is correct. Regarding wx, there are impacts to reception. Snow, and heavy rain will caused degradation or loss of signal. That said, I've had my dish for years, and am pleased with the service. |
| Each "eye" as you call it, points to a different satellite. So you can't tell from the outside how many receivers can be hooked up to it. It doesn't have anything to do with how many hookups there are. You would have to take it apart and see how many connectors are inside. |
| I have a triple LNB and have 4 receivers hooked up. As was mentioned earlier "if you hook up a multi switch you can run up to how ever many outputs your multi switch has". The only time we lose any signal is if it rains REALLy hard and I mean REALLY HARD. Cloudy days don't affect me at all nor does snow. Overall I'm very happy with the service |
Your dish is not pointed correctly, so you aren't getting enough signal strength. Your signal strength should normally be from the mid-80s up to the low 90s, as you change through the 32 transponders on the 101 satellite. Because the signal is digital, you need to have something above 50% signal strength in order to get a picture. Anytime your signal strength falls below that, you'll get dropouts. It is NOT normal or acceptable to have dropouts outside of *major* storms. I'm not even talking about heavy rain, but near-hurricane-force winds or a lot of snow. And folks who live in northern areas with lots of snow may need a cover or a heated dish & LNB during the winter. Your dish should be mounted so that the foot and mounting post do not move, and the top part of the post that the dish attaches to should be plumb (level in both directions). If the post is plumb, then pointing the dish is usually as easy as punching your ZIP code into the receiver, and then setting the tilt and elevation that it gives you on your dish. Finally, sweep the dish slowly from left to right until you peak out the signal. If that doesn't get you into the mid 80s at least, tighten the dish down, then loosen the elevation and fine-tune that way. Honestly, pointing the dish is usually one of the easist parts of the install; it's NOT hard to do. We use meters so we can check the strength while we're at the dish, but another easy way is to use radios or cell phones with someone watching the signal levels at the TV/receiver and relaying the info to the person at the dish. -Troy |
While folks in other states might argue that what we get in the PRK is not *really* a storm  , the fact is that we get a few big storms every year with lots of wind and rain. I have had NO outages. ZERO. On the other hand, I have internet service from the cable company, and I have had quite a few outages, especially during bad weather. You do the math.Most cable channels are still analog, even with "Digital Cable", as only the premium movie channels and PPV are digital. Satellite is 100% digital, both picture and audio. The quality difference, especially when you hook your receiver up via the Line In or Video In on your TV instead of the antenna/coax input, is pretty dramatc. Most of our customers don't realize what they've been missing, and are often blown away by the difference. And in most cases, satellite programming is cheaper than cable too. You also get all of your programming on every receiver, unlike most cable systems, where you only get premium channels on TVs that you have a cable box. Satellite does require a few things: - A dish antenna must be mounted on your house, or on a pole near the house. Normally, it needs to be mounted as close as possible to your service entrance (where your power meter is), so that it can be properly grounded. The dish will face south/south-east for most folks. - You will need a receiver for each TV. Each receiver can tune in channels independently. Whatever programming you pick, you pay the full price for the first receiver per month, and then $4.99 for each additional receiver per month, with your programming mirrored to all receivers. - A separate RG6 coax cable must be run between the dish (or the multiswitch) and each receiver. DVR receivers need *2* cables, as DVRs have 2 separate tuners inside. Unlike cable, you cannot use splitters; these lines must be direct runs (they can be spliced together with "barrel" connectors, but not split). - The cabling is the most important part of the job. Newer houses often have good cable already installed using "home runs" to a central point, which makes things easy. Older homes my only have one or two main lines, many of which were later split to connect other rooms, and that's where you run into trouble. DirecTV pays the installer for a "standard installation", but this means running the cables on the outside of the house and drilling in through an outside wall. Running lines though your attic or crawlspace is custom, and will cost money. Wall fishes (fishing the cable down though an existing wall) will cost more, and won't always be possible, depending on the house. I recommend to everyone to do whatever it takes to have a good cable job done, because you are adding value to your house by doing so, and good cabling will help even if you switch back to cable at some point. The more you can tell me about your specific needs, the more I can help. -Troy |
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Troy, first I want to thank you for spending the time writing all this info out, it's definitely appreciated. When I switched to digital cable I decided to upgrade all the wiring (I'm an electrician so I figured I could handle it  ), I ran cable and CAT6 home-runs to each room, sometimes 2 or even 3 in a room so we could switch the furnature around in the future. Since all the home runs lead to the basement, would I have to extend each individual cable to go up to the roof and connect to the dish? Or is there another way (I noticed you said something about a multiswitch and assume it might work in my situation)?
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Currently, DirecTV will install one of 3 dishes (I'm excluding the dish for International language programming), depending on your area and what programming you select: - 1 LNB dish - This dish points at the 101 satellite, and gets virtually all of DirecTV's English-language, Standard-Def (SD) programming. The only exception is that, in some areas, you need to access the 119 sat as well in order to receive local programming. In that case, you'll get the 3-LNB dish. This dish has 2 outputs. - 3 LNB dish - This dish picks up 101, 110, and 119 sats. 119 contains local channels for some areas, most of the Spanish programming, and the Jade World Chinese package. Also, the non-local HD channels are spread out between 110 and 119. This dish has 4 outputs. - 5 LNB (Ka/Ku) dish - This is the current dish for HD programming; in addition to the 3 Ku-band sats that the 3 LNB dish picks up, it also picks up the new Ka-band sats at 99 and 103. The Ka-band sats are where all of the future MPEG4 HD programming is going to be transmitted; currently only HD local channels are being broadcast on these sats. This dish has 4 outputs. Generally, the installer will run lines from the dish to your "home run" location. Whether you'll need 2 or 4 lines will depend on which dish you'll need. And if you need more lines than your dish has, the installer will use a multiswitch at your "home run" location to create the additional outlets. A multiswitch will require either 2 or 4 lines from the dish (depending on the dish) as inputs, and will have either 4 or 8 outputs. Switches can be cascaded to create even more outputs if necessary. On a new install, the switch is normally provided to you if you need more than the number of lines than the dish can support. The normal practice is to install/include the minimum dish and hardware for the programming you ordered, so, for example, you won't get a Ka/Ku dish installed if you didn't order HD programming, and you won't get a 4x8 switch if you only ordered enough receivers for 3 lines. If you want to run these lines yourself, go ahead and run 4 lines. Even if they don't go all the way to where the dish ends up being, the installer can connect into them easily. Again, everything I just posted is "generic" information; if you need specifics, I'll need more info about your desired setup. -Troy |
Slightly, but not enough to matter unless the run is REALLY long, or unless you have a bunch of them in the line. The fact that DirecTV only sends 100% digital signals through the cable means that a slight degredation of the signal isn't a big deal. A 1 is still a 1, and a 0 is still a 0. Outside of a bad barrel or two, the only time I've ever had a problem is when moisture got into one that was on the outside of a house. This happened for a couple of reasons: crimp-on fittings, only a hand-tight connection, and nothing to seal the connector. We use water-resistant compression fittings, use wrenches to tighten the fittings, and either tape over the splice with electrical tape or use rubber seals. I've never had one of MY installs fail, and I leave my number with my customers. Of course, some installers are worthless, and some were never properly trained and don't know any better. Just like in any other contractor environment. If you are having a problem with the installer, get in contact with his dispatch office and reschedule with another tech (if you can't resolve it over the phone). But, due to your previous work, your install should be easy and problem-free. -Troy |
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OK, I lied just one more. What strippers and crimpers do you use? I've been thinking about buying a set. I don't need them that much at work since usually the teledata guys will deal with the cable, but I've run into situations while moonlighting when someone also wanted a cable wire ran in their house and I was stuck using a razor and borrowing crimpers (like what I did in my own house.). I think it's time to get my own. Do you use an all-in-one stripper and crimper like this: www.mytoolstore.com/klein/1008.html Or do you use seperate tools? |
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The tool you pictured is a hex-crimp type tool. That's usually the only connectors you see on the consumer market, but there are a number of problems with them, and neither cable nor satellite guys use those for anything (except maybe jumpers from the receiver or VCR to the TV). What you want are compression connectors, which require a compression tool. These *can* be very expensive, but they certainly don't need to be. In my area, Home Depot sells one for around $20, that looks like this:  (I'm talking about the chrome clam-shell-type tool in the middle). The one I use is a little more expensive (around $40), and has ratchets to make sure the connector is fully crimped:  And I use this stripping tool:  This gives a proper, two-part strip, with each section being .25":  Note that the shield braid has been properly pulled back. You have to be careful that you don't have a strand wrapped around the center conductor; this will short out the cable, and you'll have to cut off the connector and try again. See this page for step-by-step instructions: www.hometech.com/learn/coaxterm.html Note that modern connectors (including the current Snap-N-Seal design) aren't designed to be separated like the original Snap-N-Seals were:  The compression connectors I prefer and recommend are made by PPC and are model EX6:  Other good choices are the Digicon DS6:  and the Snap-N-Seal (you'll want the blue version, which is designed for RG6):  Really, anything is better than hex-crimp, but no matter what you use, proper cable prep using a stripper tool and properly pulling back the shield braid is important no matter what you use. Anything else? -Troy |
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Oh, one more thing: the center conductor (i.e., stinger) should not stick out any more than 1/16" past the connector. "Correct" is somewhere between flush and 1/16". If you leave the stinger too long, it can bend up the inside of the connectors on your equipment, or the stinger can be bent and short out. Don't leave them too long! It's a very common mistake that ruins equipment over time. -Troy |
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What brand is that stripping tool? I'm going to look more closely at work tomorrow, but I believe they use the hex-crimp type connectors on most jobs that I've looked. I'll talk to a teledata guy to see what they use, now that you sparked my interest. That's all (for tonight), thanks again! |
I dunno; I've seen them for sale all over, including Radio Shack and dozens of places online, but never seen a brand name. They are very common.
No one should be using hex connectors in any professional install. Yeah, compression connectors aren't cheap ($.25-.30 each), but the certainly are the industry standard. Cable companies have been using them for over a decade. -Troy |
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I should have guessed: you can get all the tools at good prices from Outpost.com (the website for Fry's Electronics): Paladin ratcheting compression tool Clamshell compression tool Coax stripper (not exactly the same, but similar) -Troy |
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don't mean to thread jack but Troy, do you know of a place online that sells equipment outright (no lease or contract from DTV) at good prices? I'm going to most likely order off eBay but would rather go with an established company assuming all other things are equal. DTV will sell me an H20 with dish for $400 w/install. They will not sell the equipment without the install included. |
| My signal strength is a Peak 83. I still lose signal when weather hits. (Lightning,heavy rain etc.) and sometimes when we get really cloudy weather with high winds. I dunno, I had it installed by them. And they checked it twice over the phone and said its within to make sure its tight. And recently the tech was out here changing the boxes and adding two more receivers he checked it and adjusted it again. Anyway I heard somewhere that Rain-X on the dish itself will help. Any truth to this? |
1. Only DirecTV has the NFL Sunday Ticket which, I believe, shows all (except local blackouts) NFL games. If you want that, you'll need to go DirecTV. Dish doesn't have it. 2. If you want High Def channels, then Dish has the upper hand currently. This may also include your High Def local channels. I have 2 HD receivers and am happy with the current selection. I'm always looking for more HD channels. I just upgraded my receivers so I could get more HD channels. 3. Dish is slightly cheaper per month, but it's not a huge amount. This might be a factor if things a really close. You'll want to compare the many packages available and see what channels you'd watch and the cost of the packages. 4. On DVRs, I've heard both good and bad about DirecTV and Dish. I don't use a DVR, so I won't comment other than to bring the subject up. 5. I've heard comments that Dish had a better Picture Quality (PQ) because Dish doesn't compress the channels as much. I've had Dish for about 10 years. One brother has Dish, and one sister has DirecTV. We'll all happy with what we have. A good Sat dish forum is DBS Forums |
No such thing, unless you buy used. The only way to own NEW DirecTV equipment is to buy it at full MSRP, because DirecTV only reimburses retailers on receivers that are professionally installed & activated. There is plenty of used equipment available that works just fine, but you'll have to pay $20/receiver for DirecTV to send you a new access card, as they will NOT activate any receiver using an old access card. Really, the only equipment worth buying are the older TiVo DVRs. Having said that, you can find a retailer that will let you do the installation yourself. It's unusual but certainly not unheard of. If you're really serious, let me know, as I do sales also, and I'll see what I can do. Just so you know, DirecTV went to a lease program for all new equipment as of 3/1/06. Dish has been using the lease model for some time, and cable has always used it. DirecTV had to switch in order to be competitive. Just so you know, there are some really cool things coming for DirecTV, including PC-compatible tuners that will work with WinXP Media Center Edition, and also Microsoft's version of a video iPod that will be able to download content from your DTV modern receiver. -Troy |
Check 101, transponder 3 for signal strength. Is your dish mounted solidly, and bolts tightened? Does it move in the wind? Are there trees nearby that get blown in front of the dish when it's windy? If you have a clear sky, properly mounted, tightened, and pointed dish, you should almost NEVER lose signal. -Troy |
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I just got off the phone with DTV today (I had to speak with a supervisor). Basically it boils down to is... I can either pay $400 for an H20 with the high def dish & install or the guy said they'll sell me an access card for $20 and a dish for $70 installed. I would then have to buy the receiver on my own on eBay or whatever. I've currently got an older RCA receiver and dish. The LNB on my dish is burnt out. I picked up a Hi Def TV, so hence the upgrade of both the dish and receiver. Taking advantage of one of DTV's lease promotions isn't an option as I use DTV for only the NFL package. I don't maintain any montly programming at all. Apparently this was allowed a few years ago. From what the CSR told me they no longer do this. All of their lease options require that I buy monthly programming for a few years which I don't want to do.
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You might want to call them again and make SURE that you can order JUST the NFL package; I'm not sure that's even an option anymore, regardless of your equipment. Then, I would look for an H10 on eBay, and a 3-LNB dish. You don't need the more expensive H20 or the 5-LNB dish, since you aren't getting HD locals. -Troy |
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Troy, I already have the NFL package. I've had it for about 4 years now. Just doing the auto renewal thing. At one point you could get the NFL package without montly programming. That's no longer an option for new subscribers. I'm just upgrading equipment to get HD and a working dish. So will the H10 allow me to watch my football games in HD? I am aware that the superfan package is also required. Does the H10 do HDMI?
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Out here in the West we never get storms that are strong enough to lost the signal. However, anywhere east of the Rockies storms of this magnitude are not rare. Basically if a storm is strong enough to result in severe thunderstorm warnings from the National Weather Service, you may lose the signal for a little while. In the northeast the dish is pointed toward the southwest, and the signal comes in at a fairly shallow angle (in the low 20's in degrees) at least with Dish Network. |
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I hate hijacking threads, but let me go ahead. I've got DirecTV with receivers located in several rooms. The problem is that one of the rooms pops a breaker the instant a reciever is plugged into any power outlet in THAT room. We were told by the installer that a crossed hot/return wire would cause that , but according to my tester, all the outlets are just fine. We can (and have) run an extension cord from another room to the reciever and all works great. Likewise tried different receivers and all pop the breaker. Any suggestions? BTW to at least address the original threadstarter's question. We've had DirecTV for almost a year and are pretty underwhelmed by it. A decent rain south of us (NOT hurricane) and the signal is gone. They just hit us with a $3.00/mo price increase (still within the 1yr of our contract, btw) and the basic programming selection is pretty poor. If you want the good channels like HBO and such, the only way to get them is to spring for the $99/mo package. We got this with the expectation of eventually getting the sat-internet since the local cable co. want's over $2K to run the line to us, but after talking to the installer the internet feature pretty much sucks (MAJOR dropouts) so we've been dealing with dialup |
Yes and yes. The primary difference between the H10 and the new H20 is that the H20 can decode Ka/MPEG4 signals, in conjunction with the 5-LNB Ka/Ku dish. But the only thing being broadcast on Ka are HD local channels. All of the other HD content is still Ku on 110 and 119, and can be decoded with the H10 just fine. You'll need the 3-LNB dish. And, the HD absolutely has an HDMI output; you'll need to purchase your own cable, as it only came with composite, component, and S-Video cables, all analog. -Troy |
This is an exceedingly rare situation, but I would agree with the installer; you've got some wires crossed somewhere in the leg of the circuit that feeds that room. The receivers send power through the coax up to the LNB to power the dish, and if you have crossed wiring, the "hot" side is going to connect with the "ground" side on the receiver in the "bad" room, which is bad. Your breaker is doing its job, but something is definitely wrong with the wiring. I've done nearly 1000 installs, and many of them have been in some of the worst ghetto areas in the Bay Area, and many in very old buildings in San Fran with ANCIENT wiring, and have never had this problem, so it isn't common.
Again, this should NOT be the case, and indicates that the dish isn't pointed properly or wasn't mounted properly. The base needs to be SOLIDLY mounted so that the pole/dish does not move. My dish is fairly exposed to the wind, and we've had 70+ MPH storm gusts without getting dropouts. Something is WRONG with your install, but in most cases, it's pretty easy to fix. Worst case, your dish needs to be relocated to a spot where it can be mounted more solidly.
HBO, Showtime, etc. are PREMIUM movie channels, regardless of who you get them from. No one offers them for free (aside, perhaps, for a short-term introductory offer). And you can elect to buy them ala cart. I personally have Total Choice Plus and HBO. Adding one premium network only costs $12/month, which is about the cost of renting 2 DVDs, including gas, and assuming you don't get a late fee. Anyway, if you compare the REAL cost of the programming (meaning: AFTER the introductory offer expires, and you go to paying full price) compared to cable or DishNetwork, you'll see the savings. As for the price increase, Dish and cable went up as well. This was largely due to the well-publicized increase in the licensing cost of a number of popular networks, including Fox News, at the beginning of the year. All of the providers get the programming from the same networks, so when the networks raise prices, the providers all have to pass the costs along to the customers. It's the nature of business. Note that DirecTV also added 10 additional channels over the last year.
I never recommend sat-based Internet to anyone with a wired (or 802.11-based wireless) alternative. The best service is the new WildBlue sat Internet, but even with its dramatically improved infrastructure, it is still limited, and you'll never get around the lag time of having to send the signal on FOUR one-way trips of 22,600 miles as it travels to and from the satellite in space. WildBlue is MUCH better than dial-up, assuming it is installed correctly (and proper installation is much more critical with WB than with TV), but some things, such as real-time online gaming, VPN, VOIP, and anything requiring very low latency, won't work. It's really a rural-only solution. Cable Internet, when it works, is the best of the low-cost Internet solutions; I use it myself. But I still have quite a few outages, and I live in an area where almost all lines are underground. In areas where the cables are on poles, especially in rural areas with lots of trees, you'd have a LOT of outages, especially in winter. And if you think you're underwhelmed by DirecTV's programming and quality, you really should compare side by side with cable, especially the cost. In most cases, DTV is going to be cheaper (maybe MUCH cheaper), and virtually always higher sound and picture quality. Obviously, you're free to choose whatever providers you like. I have no stake in the matter. But I do try to help folks who are having outage issues due to their installation. Those are usually easy problems to fix, and makes a world of difference in the satisfaction with the service. -Troy |
Ahh, yes, the original Snap-N-Seals. Nothing wrong with the connectors, but I'm not as wild about the tool, since it won't work with any other brands of compression fittings. The tool I use will work with all of them. Of course, if all you use are S-N-S, then it's a non-issue. In the field, I run across everything, including fittings that some moron forgot to compress, so I *need* a universal tool. -Troy |
Troy, I took a closer look today and also talked to the teledata guy. I found out that he uses a hex type crimp tool for everything. There are two types of connectors on this particular job (a high school with cable TV in every classroom), there are the small common ones that you would see for cheap at Radio Shack or Home Depot, this size is for the runs going into each individual classroom, the connectors go on RG6 and seem as if they are made for hex type crimpers. Then there are the connectors picture below (he gave it to me, I didn't steal it!), he said these go on the RG11 coax that they use for a backbone to connect each 8-way splitter together. He also used his hex crimp tool for this, altho he used a bigger hole. The hex hole in the crimper for the RG6 was labelled .3something while the opening for the RG11 was labelled .4something. I assume that the pictured connector isn't supposed to be crimped with that type connector, he's probably just going off of what one guy told him one day (it's hard to each old dogs new tricks, especially in this business). 
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That's actually a hex-crimp RG11 connector, so he was using the right tool for this connector. There are compression connectors for RG11, but both the tool ($100) and the connectors ($1+ each) are VERY expensive compared to the far more common RG6. They are using RG11 for their main feed lines due to having very long runs, I'm sure. They really should be using compression connectors, at least for the RG6... -Troy |
A good crimping tool will work fine but a cheap ass Radio Shack economy crimping tool is a POS and most won't want to spend the money on a good crimper for something they rarely use. |
Thanks, I was looking for a nice summary like that. We called Dish for an install, and the tech comes by. After looking at the house and the gigantic trees in the back yard, he tells us (after a test) we can't get the Dish signal. However, we can pick up the DirecTV satellite.  I've been very happy with the quality. I get some pixellation during heavy rains, but like Troy stated, I think that's actually the trees moving around too much. BTW, does anyone else think the redhead who does the commercials for the satellite internet is hawt? 
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