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Posted: 1/28/2006 4:46:43 PM EDT
So the 2005 SEBR is my very first AR-15. Naturally I’m very excited and try to find time to shoot any chance I get. Not having any targets I proceeded to visit Gander Mountain to purchase some.

I came upon those solid steel targets that spin when you hit it. I asked the fella at the desk if he had a set that was rated for stronger than a .22

So we walk over to where they have a section. He asks me what round I will be shooting. I say “Oh just a .223” and so he grabs for the best thing he has. Something rated for a .44 Magnum.

I said “will this do it?
He said “you bet. Just don’t try to shoot a 30-06 at it, cuz it’ll go right through it.”
I say “right, I only plan to shoot a .223 at it”
He confirms “yeah, that should be fine then”

My wife was with me and I say to her “that guy is a moron. I’m so sure a 30-06 would go right through this ¼ inch thick slab of solid steel.”

Wife says “I’m not so sure honey, guns are pretty powerful”

I finally make it to the range. Set up the little steel spinner. Slap in a full mag of Back Hills 55gr FMJ Blue Box special. And then it was on.

So who thinks they know what happened?

To be continued with pics…
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:48:11 PM EDT
I think it went through.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:48:20 PM EDT
went clean thru I bet.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:49:12 PM EDT
I bet you blew nice little holes in it! How many shots was it good for before it was completely shredded?

A .223 is pretty similar in velocity and penetration to a 30-06, especially at short range and in FMJ form...
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:49:20 PM EDT
I've been there. When they say "don't shoot at the steel targets with anything but pistol rounds," there's a reason for it.

Lots of energy in a moving 62 grain bullet.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:49:39 PM EDT
Been there, done that... I vote clean hole right through.


- BG
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:50:31 PM EDT
HOLY STEEL, Batman!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:51:12 PM EDT
Like your fingers through sigle ply toilet paper
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:52:29 PM EDT
Right on through.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:53:56 PM EDT
You got a lightly marked target .
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:54:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Been there, done that... I vote clean hole right through.


- BG




Indeed. I predict the shooter swiss-cheesed the spinner.

Don't people check out the box 'o truth? Rifle rounds are vastly more powerful than puny handgun rounds...

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:54:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 4:56:01 PM EDT by FALARAK]
Are you kidding? That soft mild steel crap made for handgun rounds????

5.56 has more penetrating power at close range than 30-06 I would bet. Penetration in steel is heavily velocity dependent.

1. You need to me a MINIMUM of 50 yds back (100yds preferably) when shooting steel targets with rifles.

2. Good M193 or M855 will blow right thru 1/4" mild steel. I have lots of these plates back home that look like swiss cheese. If the metal has any hardness to it, it becomes increasingly difficult.

Always shoot hardened AR400 or AR500 with rifles.... and at a safe distance. A jacket can ricochet and do serious damage at close range. ALWAYS wear eye protection when shooting, but especially when shooting hard targets.

At 50 yds, with a .308, I cant make a mark on my steel plates. But with M193, I pock-mark the surface of it. Set the target back to 200yds or more, and it doesnt do anything to it. Highly velocity dependent.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:55:30 PM EDT
My friend has rifle steel ringers that are 1.75 steel that hang at a 45 degree angle and you STILL can't shoot them with steel core stuff.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:55:58 PM EDT
Not through. But I sure blew the shit out of this thing. Although both legs look attached that was just for the picture. I actually blew an entire leg clean off.

So now I'm $30 down but seeing a bullet FUSE with steel like that. PRICELESS.


Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:57:33 PM EDT
Took the kids to the range over New Years. Set out a cardboard target and a .22 cal swinger at 50 yards. Kids are using my 10/22 and soon switch over to .223 and .30-60. My boy come back to me a bit later and says "Dad... are you supposed to shoot the swinger with CZ (.233)?"

Me -> "Uh, no"

"Oh. Kath (my daughter) did"

Me ->

Yup. Cleanest, smoothest and round hole outside of a plasma rifle in the 40 watt range you'd ever want to see.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:58:16 PM EDT
If you would have been shooting M193.... I bet it would have been a bit worse.... I use to take "cut'offs" from our machine shop.... typically a 4" piece of cold roll, sawed into 1/4" plates. Weld those to angle iron or chain and make pistol swingers. When they got all beat up.... I'd hit them with some SA surplus. Right thru.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:58:57 PM EDT
I vote holes, too.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:59:23 PM EDT
how far out was the target?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 4:59:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Not through. But I sure blew the shit out of this thing. Although both legs look attached that was just for the picture. I actually blew an entire leg clean off.

So now I'm $30 down but seeing a bullet FUSE with steel like that. PRICELESS.

cbeisweb.ad.fullerton.edu/tangel/kaboom.jpg
cbeisweb.ad.fullerton.edu/tangel/kaboom2.jpg



Take it back. Get your money back. They guy at the store told you it would work. Obviously, you didnt know any better.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:02:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Not through. But I sure blew the shit out of this thing. Although both legs look attached that was just for the picture. I actually blew an entire leg clean off.

So now I'm $30 down but seeing a bullet FUSE with steel like that. PRICELESS.

cbeisweb.ad.fullerton.edu/tangel/kaboom.jpg
cbeisweb.ad.fullerton.edu/tangel/kaboom2.jpg



Take it back. Get your money back. They guy at the store told you it would work. Obviously, you didnt know any better.



HA!!! Maybe I'll try that. I don't know what I was thinking? I just thought "steel = tough" and little copper coated lead bullets ain't gonna do shit to steel. Plus it's rated for a 44 magnum *and* Mr. Expert sounded very confident. LOL!!! I laughed so hard when I saw this thing on the ground.

It actually cried out "please stop. I can't take anymore"
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:03:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
HOLY STEEL, Batman!






+1
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 5:46:24 PM EDT
What do you think the RPM was when you hit the bull?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:19:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Britt-dog:
What do you think the RPM was when you hit the bull?



I think I had to wait a solid 3 seconds before a follow up shot.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:51:33 PM EDT
We've always had "bells" at the range at our hunting club. When they were all shot up a few years ago I thought I'd make new ones.

I went down to the burn out table at work and found two drops from 1" AR plate, one 8" diameter and the other 12" diameter.

I welded angle iron to them and hung them from the pegs on the back stop. They've been there at least 3 years.

High velocity stuff, including .223, .308 and .30-06 make nice divots, about 1/4" deep. I've never shot at them from closer than 100 yards.

Pistol rounds bounce right off, just scuffing the paint off.

The faces of them are pretty well cratered, and the angle iron has been shot off a few times, but they're still nice and round. A quick coat of orange paint and they're good for a month! They make a nice bong, and swing when you hit them.

Occasionally when using .22's or pistols at 25 yards you get a bounce back (ricochet), but they're always moving slow.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:00:00 PM EDT
Shot one of those once with a .30-30 last year. Bullet burrowed straight through and bulged out the back, nearly penetrating entirely. It's still in there. Lucky I was using a hollowpoint and it flattened out instantly.

When they say "don't use anything but pistols", they fricking MEAN "don't use anything but pistols".
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:51:46 AM EDT
So now my question is, who makes something like this that can handle .223???
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:59:29 AM EDT
A .44 mag and a .223 are two totally different ballgames. Try some of those orange blocks. Forget the name, sorry.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:59:53 AM EDT
that'll buff right out

a buddy of mine who I shoot IDPA with is experiencing a similar problem albeit on a less sever scale when he shoots steel at the range with his XD in .357 SIG (cratering, displaced metal, etc.)
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:00:49 AM EDT
I had a spinner target allegedly designed to withstand .44 Mag. I managed to blast not one, but two spinner plates completely off using an HK USPc 9mm shooting WWB bulk ammo.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:09:24 AM EDT
BTDT--apparently with the exact same product (and result--except I also severed the spinner's legs)
IIRC Adam_White helped out with the deconstruction of the target that day.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:12:14 AM EDT
You expected to get a target that would withstand .223 for $30?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:14:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
So the 2005 SEBR is my very first AR-15. Naturally I’m very excited and try to find time to shoot any chance I get. Not having any targets I proceeded to visit Gander Mountain to purchase some.

I came upon those solid steel targets that spin when you hit it. I asked the fella at the desk if he had a set that was rated for stronger than a .22

So we walk over to where they have a section. He asks me what round I will be shooting. I say “Oh just a .223” and so he grabs for the best thing he has. Something rated for a .44 Magnum.

I said “will this do it?
He said “you bet. Just don’t try to shoot a 30-06 at it, cuz it’ll go right through it.”
I say “right, I only plan to shoot a .223 at it”
He confirms “yeah, that should be fine then”


My wife was with me and I say to her “that guy is a moron. I’m so sure a 30-06 would go right through this ¼ inch thick slab of solid steel.”

Wife says “I’m not so sure honey, guns are pretty powerful”

I finally make it to the range. Set up the little steel spinner. Slap in a full mag of Back Hills 55gr FMJ Blue Box special. And then it was on.

So who thinks they know what happened?

To be continued with pics…



I'll guess that you filled it full of .223 caliber holes.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:14:47 AM EDT
I bet you took the spinner off its base.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:16:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
So now my question is, who makes something like this that can handle .223???



You do know that they sell stuff like that specifically to withstand rifle shots, right???

All steel targets are not created equal.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:21:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
So now my question is, who makes something like this that can handle .223???



www.metaltargets.com for one.

google "high velocity steel targets" for others.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:54:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
So now my question is, who makes something like this that can handle .223???





www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=92018



No experience with it though.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:55:12 AM EDT
How far away was the target? I know for a fact () that those same spinners are like hot butter against 55gr FMJ at 50 yds. I got one of those to shoot with my .41 mag, and it does fine, although it's all bent to hell (a 250 gr bullet at 1450 fps pounds hard). But some guys at the range didn't know the spinner was mine, and shot it with their ARs at 50 yds (I was at the car when that happenned).

Nice, clean holes all the way through. They were shooting XM193.

I'm rather surprised that you didn't punch holes in yours. I have shot a lot of metal targets (soft steel), and the penetrative/cratering capabilities of the 5.56x45 are awesome. It actually craters steel far worse (deep) than .308 or 8mm Mauser.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:50:16 AM EDT
It looks like Swiss cheese but tastes not too good.

Years ago I shot my 3/8ths inch thick hanging steel target at 25 yards with my AR and it looked like it was drilled. It didn't even move it, I thought I had missed it until I saw the tiny point of light as I got closer to it. I also shot it with my SKS with a softpoint and the hole was slightly larger than .30"

Last year I gave my wife a left handed Stagarms AR for Christmas. We went out into the yard to shoot it. While I was filling up water bottles she started shooting. I thought to myself,"Hmm, what's she shooting at?" Then it dawned on me. Crap. Now there's a bunch of holes in my target. Time to get a new plate.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:55:57 AM EDT
I bet it made nice big holes
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:32:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 8:34:03 AM EDT by Wdsman]

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
So now my question is, who makes something like this that can handle .223???





www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=92018



No experience with it though.



If that is what I think it is, some friends of mine developed it. They have in fact shot it with a .50BMG. It left a small hole about what you would expect from a .223. Everything smaller, just resealed around the hole. They shot it with everything they could think of. Even had me shoot it with a 75# bow and some 100gr. target points.

ETA: +1 on taking it back. Because a) they gave you bad info b) they will refund your money - my wife used to be in customer service at the one in Indy and c) how else will the idjit that sold you yours learn?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:48:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wdsman:

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
So now my question is, who makes something like this that can handle .223???


www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=92018
No experience with it though.



If that is what I think it is, some friends of mine developed it. They have in fact shot it with a .50BMG. It left a small hole about what you would expect from a .223. Everything smaller, just resealed around the hole. They shot it with everything they could think of. Even had me shoot it with a 75# bow and some 100gr. target points.

ETA: +1 on taking it back. Because a) they gave you bad info b) they will refund your money - my wife used to be in customer service at the one in Indy and c) how else will the idjit that sold you yours learn?



WOW. $30 bucks and it can withstand a .50 BMG!! Dang. Might have to try that.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:16:41 PM EDT
Need to work on your group size. Yer all over that target.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:23:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Not through. But I sure blew the shit out of this thing. Although both legs look attached that was just for the picture. I actually blew an entire leg clean off.

So now I'm $30 down but seeing a bullet FUSE with steel like that. PRICELESS.

cbeisweb.ad.fullerton.edu/tangel/kaboom.jpg
cbeisweb.ad.fullerton.edu/tangel/kaboom2.jpg



Ha, I've got one just like it only BOTH legs are shot off and it has lots of holes thru it.
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