Posted: 11/12/2005 2:34:25 AM EDT
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Link EVANSVILLE - EPD respond to a firestorm of complaints after one of their officers shoots a pet dog. The story was first reported by NEWS 25's media partner, the Evansville Courier and Press. Police went to Tamara Schuler's house Tuesday evening. They were looking for a 17-year-old girl who was dating her son. An officer entered the back yard and wound up shooting Schuler's family pet. The Evansville Courier&Press reports that Officer Mike Sides said the dog cornered him inside a fence and that he felt like he was going to be bitten. Schuler said her dog was a kind animal and has never attacked anyone. Schuler filed a formal complaint. Evansville police are not commenting about the incident at this time, although they say they will release a news statement in the coming days. |
Any marketing types here? Is there a market for Doggie Body Armor? My wife's Schnauzer had a sweater, but she ate it. Maybe something in Kevlar- black would complement her coat. ETA The Evansville Courier&Press reports that Officer Mike Sides said the dog cornered him inside a fence and that he felt like he was going to be bitten. That was one mean lookin' brute. What, about 25 pounds? Might have cornered the guys ankles- what a boob. |
If you have to shoot a dog that has you cornered, you would down at the mouth/head, and that would still align the bullet path with the torso of the dog as well in the event the shot doesn't hit the brain. I don't think body armor would help. ETA: I have no problem with them shooting a dog that cornered an officer and was about to inflict harm on him. UNLESS THE OFFICER DID NOT HAVE LEGAL STANDING TO BE IN THE YARD AT THE TIME. Article is too thin on details to figure that tidbit out. Did they have a warrant for said 17 yearold, and did they have PC to believe she was in on the property at the time? ETA again....I know a cop who had this happen to him. Just because a dog comes after you, doesn't mean you go right to the gun. That is where my siglinebelow comes from. I I I \/ |
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I usually try to stay out of these threads since they always turn into cop bashing...but...I gotta comment on this one. As a retired Canine Unit Supervisor I have shot and killed several dogs in my life, and I have done some spectacular high-jumps and quick-time backtracking while on searches, too! Every one I ever shot was either biting me or my dog, or so close to doing so (torn pants cuffs) it did not matter at the time, and I have some scars to prove at least part of that. No way you shoot an animal doing his job unless you absolutely, positively, HAVE to...and yes, that means you take a risk while getting the Hell out of that dog's territory if you are not involved on something of "kife or death" proportions, or at least figuring a way to get around him without shooting him...pepper spray works pretty well on pet dogs, not so well on trained dogs, and I have even "fed" a baton or two to agressive dogs along the way. I was not there in that yard, so I will not say much more except that if this was one of my guys, he would...based only on the strength of that report...damned sure need to do some very creative report writing to keep me from suspending him for several days without pay. This is very far removed from a trained Rottie or pittbull being used as a guard dog...IF that is a pic of the actual dog, and IF this story is all there is to it. |
| What I don't like is the mentality that if I cross your yard and your dog barks I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SHOOT. We aren't talking about a dog running loose and attacking folks. I have all the respect for LEO,s. Sorry it just doesn't sit right with me. Even a pepper spray and dischargeing a round into the dirt would take care of most situations. The few it doesn't and Officer smith is getting eating alive, I would then cap the dog. IMO WarDawg |
+1 Yep- have to assume accurate reporting, and you know what they say about Ass-U-Me. Not intended as a bash. Pic of the dog struck me as absurd. Anyway, my Boykin is curled up at my feet and HE made me do it. And now he wants his grub, and in about 10 minutes wife will have phone withdrawals. Everyone have a good, safe-if-your-shooting weekend.
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I gotta be honest. I was expecting to hear the usual "you weren't there, you have no idea what it's like, no way I'M getting bit, I'm not taking the chance that the dog will bite me, the dog is getting fucking shot, blah blah". I am amazed. It sounds like you have more than half a brain, know a little bit about dogs, respect the fact they they belong to someone, and conduct your business with care and a very high level of respect for people, or at least the owners of the animals you posted about. Thank you for that post.  Let me ask this question.....is the way YOU conducted business regarding pets the standard, or did you exceed the standard and go out of your way/take more risks than your department requires to avoid killing someone's pet? Where the heck is the "sunlight breaking out of the clouds" animation?  You go on the short list of LEO's that have earned my respect. It wasn't that hard, was it!! 
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TheKill; Well, in my experience...most of it with a Shreiff's Office, (elected Shreiffs tend to pay a bit more attention to PR and trying not to go out of the way to piss off the public any more than necessary, so mostly, a dog shooting was...and generally still is...a rare thing in that agency.) I admit am more of a "dog guy" than most officers and probably did go a bit beyond what many others would do. Still, ANY shot fired is very likely to generate mucho paperwork and often a lawsuit, so common sense (which, unfortunately, is not all that common) and self-preservation would seem to call for a lot of restraint on the part of most officers...and frankly, that is what I usually see. It does not make the news...even here  ...when an LEO rips his uniform pants diving over a 5ft. chainlink fence with a pissed off Chow-dog in hot pursuit and gets laughed at by his companion officers!I am "old school", but I am not...I don't think, anyway...a "dinosaur" yet. I still train officers today, and while these generally are very fine men and women, I do sometimes think that some of them should have a bit more "life experience" before they get into that uniform and start exercising those powers over other people's lives. I had no real idea of what emotions were involved in a domestic dispute until I was married and had a couple of go-rounds with my ex...much less all the BS involved in a divorce with a child involved, etc. (In fact, an old cop once told me that HE thought the best preparation for being a cop just might be to work in a womans shoe department for about 5 years, stuffing those size 10's into size 6 shoes, eating that shit and learning to live with it!) IMO "the job" is all about people...not guns or gear or other cool stuff...and to many...including me...a pet dog is a part of a family. (I don't mean the poor SOB chained up beneath the old car on blocks in the yard!) No, they are not people, but they deserve consideration as a part of the overall scheme of things during a search or on a call, since unless you are an idiot, you realize that many people HAVE dogs in their yards and SOME dogs may not appreciate you being there worth a damn! Now if an officer really has done his or her damndest to avoid trouble with the animal, and there are exigent circumstances, then the dog is gonna lose, but that is usually not the case simply because most officers DO, in fact, go out of the way in trying not to hurt a pet...as noted, however, we never see that story. Thank you for the compliment, but remember that the men and women in LE out there are not perfect...they screw up just like everybody else, Usually, they screw up trying to do the right thing, but not always. I have little doubt that if the story here is all there is to it, this young man will learn a valuable lesson. It is a damned shame that someone's pet had to get shot for him to learn. |
| Hmm. . . suffer minor injury while intruding in a stranger's fenced yard, or destroy his property? Hmmmm. Here's the deal: you got a warrant or you're in hot pursuit of a fleeing felon, do what you gotta do. Otherwise, shooting a dog in a yard to which you were not invited gives the owner the right to handcuff, tase, pepper-spray and beat your ass. It'd be interesting to see how a rule like that would affect the exercise of discretion when deciding whether to make nonconsensual entry to private property. |
Unless I have exigent circumstances or a warrant I'm not knowingly going on somebodies private property - anything I find is going to get tossed at the suppression hearing. Why would any officer in his/her right mind go thru hassle..... Brian |
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Im a dog lover since the day my Black Lab saved my nephews life in my eyes. I dont care who you are, you shoot my dog I will defend her life with mine if need be. Shes not a pet, shes a family member. I find it funny a K9 officer is allowed to defend his dogs ( partners ) life and do so legally but I am not allowed to by law. To explain the above, on command my dog chased down my 5 year old nephew who was chaseing a ball into a busy hiway near my parents house. She grabed my nephew by the back of his shirt and drug him to the ground untill I was able to get to him. If i had not seen him and my dog had not caught him, he would be dead this day. To put it simply, i owe her one !!!!! |
+1 And too many of my brother officers are afraid of little dogs. Where the hell did they grow up that there weren't any dogs around to play with? |
