Posted: 11/8/2005 7:52:30 PM EDT
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I've been thinking about possibly needing/getting a support dog in the future, and I'm wondering if a GS would be a good choice for me. I've never owned one, but I've always liked them. I've had some people tell me they turn on their owners more often than pitbulls and that unless you're real strong-willed/overbearing the dog will dominate you. Then I have others tell me they're very protective of their family, and especially kids.  I don't have a clue who is right or wrong.I've only known two people with support dogs, the first being a Golden Retriever and the second being a Lab. (The Lab doubles as a duck retriever). Any info would be appreciated. 
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I've owned GSDs and Dobermans. IMO, a Doberman will "test" you much more than a GSD. I've never heard any first-hand accounts of either breed turning on their owner, though. I suppose it could happen, but I would think it's very rare. With that said, my current dog is a shep, and I doubt I'll ever own another breed. They are amazingly intelligent and naturally protective of those they bond with. Yes, you do need to establish yourself as the alpha, but it doesn't/shouldn't require you to be overbearing as you put it. Once your dog knows its place in the pack, they accept their role in it. If you have a good breeder nearby, pay them a visit. Ask any questions you have and see if you can interact with some of their dogs. That should give you a pretty good idea if it's the right breed for you. Good luck. |
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I have a 4 yr old GS female and she is wonderful, protective, and smart. My family loves her and I am quite sure the feeling is mutual. This is my fifth GSD and I have never heard of them turning on their owners. Now, having said that, I know some police officer friends of mine whose GSD are VERY AGGRESSIVE and the department bought them that way. They are bite happy, wrap happy, and just plain happy to bite anything in their way. That includes their own handler, any other officers on the scene of an incident, sergeants, Lt's, and the bad guys. And, they seem happy about it too. We call them "Land Sharks" for a reason.  Bottom line: Find one with a good temperment and you are good to go. Find one with a bad temperment, and you will have trouble. This is for any dog you get. |
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I had a german shepherd, thor, who was a 1 handler and 1 family dog, like those in the military. Noone else could get close to him and he had a very dominating attitude towards anyone else besides my parents and sister. But he had no aggression towards other animals or cats. I had to be very firm with him. But he was a very hard temperament working dog. Most german shepherds aren't that way just as most wouldn't qualify as hard enough to be military working dogs either. The german shepherd I have now , fenris, could do basic protection work, but is friendly. German shepherds can be more dominating or very friendly, or in between and still be very sound mentally, in other words, a well bred german shepherd isn't going to suddenly turn on their pack, regardless of how hard or soft their temperament is or isn't.. Some harder dogs might be more challenging than others simply based on their level of dominace, but most any dog would have to have something wrong with it to turn on his family or it's alpha. If you buy a well bred german shepherd you will be very satisfied. A good breeder will also be able to tell you what caliber personality a pup will have. I bought mine from sapphireshepherds.com/ in montana, he was shipped here, and I'd recommend them for good czech bred german shepherd. Their children assist with raising the pups so their dogs are well socialized with people and children. They're expensive but if you're expecting specifics with a good breed such as a german shepherd then the $s is well worth it for the sound dogs, cause fact is a lot of german shepherds in the u.s. are bred for the popularity of the breed, or for looks, without temperament in mind. In my opinion it's a myth that most german shepherds make good watch or protection dogs because of the greed in breeding them, as the traits that made the german shepherd 1 of the best pure bred breeds has been bred out of them anymore in the u.s.. A lot of german shepherds would watch a burgalar walk out with the goods, reason for that is they are from generations of breeding for the popularity and novalty of simply being a german shepherd, not for their working caliber. That's the reason for the higher costs for a well bred german shepherd. here's the really tough 1, thor,  and this is fenris from sapphireshepherds when he was a pup and last winter at 1   |
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Bottom line: Find one with a good temperment and you are good to go. Find one with a bad temperment, and you will have trouble. This is for any dog you get. I'd have to question any police dog no matter how tough it is that bites it's handler. Of course sometime police departments buy dogs that are simply aggressive that aren't really sound in temperament. So I agree about a good temperament, but that's not to suggest that a real tough military or police caliber dog that will bite isn't sound in temperament, as long as they're not biting their handler or family. My dog thor was like the police dog you are talking about in working caliber, but he would not turn on me or my family. That's the difference in sound or not sound. |
Tell me more about the American lines..... |
| I can only agree with most of what everyone has said. I love my GSD, he’s very protective but on the other hand very affectionate towards family members. He’s 3 years old now and has NEVER turned on any of us or even once showed his teeth. I wouldn’t feel safe with out my GSD around the house……24/7 home protection, can’t beat it! |
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My opinion is get a lab. But, when it comes to dogs, thats always my opinion. My reasoning: Breeds originally bred for bite work will always be more prone to biting. Retrievers retrieve, pointers point, diggers dig, chasers chase and BITERS BITE. Will you be able to break a pointer of pointing? Probably, yes. However, will they be more prone to pointing than a digger? OF COURSE! Genetics cannot be denied! IMO, owning a biting breed is like owning a gun...don't do it unless your willing to accept the responsibility of any damage it does. Myself, I'm not willing. Sorry for the soapbox. I've just seen too many sheps, dobermans and chows bite kids faces and ears off...and the owners ACTING LIKE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY OWNED A BITING BREED! |
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Worldwide, the GSD is THE most popular breed in existence. Accordingly, you can find any temperament you desire within the breed, but desire to work and health issues are also important. (Nothing like raising a fine pup only to discover hip dysplasia at 2 years of age) I would suggest that you look at young, 18-24 month old dogs already tested and started in obedience, tracking, etc. for a prospect. None of these dogs will come from "American lines" as there simply are no such lines capable of doing serious work...which is not to say that there may not be a few dogs from such lines out there who can work, but these are the great exception, not the rule. This is also not to say that an American bred dog out of good German, Czech or other European working lines is not suitable...just that these are not American "lines". Believe only what you see, never what you hear...breeders and brokers will lie as smoothly as used car salesmen, but can be less trustworthy. Going with a young dog allows you to actually see what you will get and to have the dig x-rayed for hips and elbows before you invest your time and emotions into him / her. Note that all Euro dogs do not come from "working" lines either, but even their "conformation" lines are far better than those in America. Expect to pay around $4000-6000 for a good young prospect with a hip / elbow and health guarantee, and around $1200-1800 or so for a good puppy out of work lines. You might start your search and your education here... www.leerburg.com/ Good Luck |
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I grew up with a GS as a pet. He was the best durn dog i EVER had. He was very loyal and never turned on me .... note that like any kid, i can be a jackass back then. Teasing and taunting the dog. But he, BRUTUS, never even snarled at me.  And just to show you how ferocious he was ... he has had a lot of "victims". From utility workers who unsuspectingly enter the premises not knowing we had a dog ... to my Mom, who unfortunately became a statistic with him when she came home one evening with a new haircut and a friend in tow. Brutus got confused.  To this day I will still maintain the the GS is a very intelligent, loyal and ferocious dog. |
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If you are worried about temperament, and don't mind a GSD in Size Large, go with a Shiloh Shepherd. They are a perfect GSD times two. The breed was started to solve a lot of the problems with the GSD line in the US. Before anyone can breed them as a registered litter, they have to submit two hip tests, a heart test, a DNA sample, behaviorial tests, and a bunch of other stuff. They typically live about 12-14 years, which is ancient for a big dog. They are large GSDs engineered for a specific set of characteristics: Large size (120 pounds minimum for males, 100 pounds for females), very soft family temperament (much softer than a typical GSD and waaay softer than guard dog lines), good hips, and high intelligence. Mine is 165 pounds at three years old. He will let a two-year-old lead him around by the collar. He is so intelligent that it rarely takes him more than one training session to learn anything. He did all the basic commands by either hand or verbal signals when he was three months old, without training. He will respond to single finger commands even when I am not looking at him. He watches me like a hawk 24/7 and is constantly looking for what I want him to do. He will stop whatever he is doing and come from 50 yards away if I just snap my fingers. (He learned that the first time I tried it.) He is so smart that if I do something the same way three times in a row, he will have picked up the pattern by the third time, whether I was intending to train him or not. His temperament is so soft that it would be useless to try to train him as a guard dog. He just doesn't want to do anything that would take him away from my side. He lives to cooperate with me. At the same time, he is fiercely protective and, when he is being protective, he is as scary as they come. As far as chick magnets go, Shilohs win over the GSDs every time. I have seen crowds of people ignore GSDs to come get a look at my Shiloh. Just FYI, my breeder currently has another litter in the works, due early next year. My breeder was Majestic Knights Shilohs and I can recommend her. She does one litter at a time, in her home, so the dogs are raised around kids in a family environment until you get them. You can read more about my Shiloh at Chopper's Page They are available in everything from pure white to pure black, with other color variations in between. Here is a picture of him when he was about a year old and 110 pounds.  Here is another picture of him with the kids - also when he was about a year old.  |
I agree. I really wonder what people do with their dogs, or what kind of dogs they buy, that the dog wants to try to dominate the owner. I think this whole dominance thing is largely BS. Yes, dogs will try to dominate each other, but most of the ones I have seen spend their whole lives wanting to cooperate with people. I have never done anything special to dominate a dog and every dog I have had is so completely submissive that they will let a two-year-old take food right out of their mouths. My granddaughter did it with my Shiloh the other day. The dog weighs 165 versus about 25 pounds for my granddaughter, so he could have easily resisted if he wanted to. It is a long story, but I think most of the "dog behaviorist" explanations of (most) dogs wanting to dominate people are a giant load of crap. It has never happened at my house and I have had all kinds of dogs over the years. Think about it from your perspective. Suppose somebody gave you a great place to live, three square meals a day, you can spend all day long doing exactly what you please, and you get more backrubs than if you had your own private masseuse. Would you want to dominate that situation, or would you just be happy with life the way it is? |
American lines are pretty. They look nice and are good at prancing around a ring. Like I said I have both. We have our show dogs that look great for the AKC. If I was to put one of my Germans or my Czech in the same AKC ring it would be laughed out. There is a debate going on between the American Shepherd Dog & the German Shepherd Dog. The GSD people say that the ASD people have ruined the breed and the ASD people say no we havent we have bettered it. From my research it seems that the hip problems started when the ASD's breed the "working" out of the GSD. Now I could be wrong but that is just my opinion. Dont get my wrong my ASD's are great dogs. Just look at what the GSD should look like compared to what the AKC says a GSD should look like. ASD says it should be very angular with almost a straight line from shoulders to hips. GSD says it should have the "roach back". Ikor posted www.leerburg.com and that is a great site for information. Here is a great article also on leerburg. http://www.leerburg.com/gsd-gate.htm |
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I forgot to mention a couple of things. First, if you want to research different breeds of dogs, a great place to start is dogbreedinfo.com That site contains good short rundowns on hundreds of breeds of dogs. While you are there, you might want to look into a breed called the Black Russian Terrier. The BRT is a very interesting dog that might also be very good for your purposes. www.dogbreedinfo.com/blackrussianterrier.htm Some things you should be looking at when you get a GSD. I shopped for two years for a GSD before I got my Shiloh, and I was unhappy, for one reason or another with everything I found. That's not to say that there aren't good American GSDs out there -- but I wasn't certain that I could locate one. I didn't want to buy a German GSD because that is another world of hassle all its own. 1) health issues. A lot of them have problems with their hips and other things because of the way they have been bred. I can't tell you how many former GSD owners have told me that they had to put down expensive dogs at about age five because of problems with hips and/or elbows. Breeders will sometimes tell you that they will give you a refund if the dog turns out to have bad hips. Well, that's just great. You have five years invested in a dog and now you have the choice of spending thousands on vet bills or putting it down. A refund really doesn't solve the problem. You will be far better off if you verify the health of the dog before you get it. Visit the breeder, if you can, and see their facilities. Get the health records (hip tests, heart tests, etc.) of the parents and previous litters, if you can. This is one of the major reasons I went with Shilohs. All the Shiloh breeders have this stuff and will require you to send in the results of health tests on all the dogs, just so they can keep track of genetic problems. 2) Temperament There are different levels of activity and aggressiveness in the various GSD lines. They range from mostly-lay-around-the-house dogs to Schutzhund dogs that do all the guard dog training. Schutzhund lines are hugely intelligent but they may not be what you want in terms of temperament. You can try to find a GSD line that has softer temperament but most of the good ones I found were bred for Schutzhund. In general, GSDs tend to be very devoted and attentive to their masters, very obedient, and very naturally protective. They learn things easily and can be taught to do quite complicated behaviors. Some of them will also understand plain English. They will readily give their lives to protect you from Godzilla, if that is what needs to be done. They may be a little overprotective at times (my Shiloh was) and some of them don't like people getting in their face or cornering them or their master, so you may have to work on that. 3) the breeder Check the background of the breeder. Is this someone you want to do business with? Shiloh breeders will require -- by contract -- that you send the dog back to them if you are ever unable to care for it. They don't want these dogs winding up in animal shelters. As I said, I did two years of research before I bought my dog. I didn't like, or didn't trust, most of what I found in GSDs. I had four problems with them -- health, size (I wanted Large), temperament, and that stupid sloped back that they breed into GSDs these days. You will note that Shilohs have a straighter back, which helps to alleviate the hip problems. At the end of all my research, my choices were: 1) Shiloh Shepherd 2) Black Russian Terrier 3) The best of the American GSDs, knowing that I was giving up something. As always, YMMV. |
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agree that there are some good american german shepherd lines and good dogs, in fact I love all dogs, but I also agree that a lot of the traits of the working german shepherd were bred out of them by u.s. breeders with lower standards. 1 thing about it in some european countries, dogs are strictly regulated and people just can't breed dogs because they care to, so breeding standards are regulated well. In my opinion czech dogs have some of the better maintained german shepherd qualities because for decades they have been bred for work for the czech border patrol. They breed for working ability and temperament 1st. |
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Check out this book: www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316578398/qid=1131556476/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-0414258-8848911?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 "The Art of Raising a Puppy" is written by a bunch of monks who raise GSDs for a living. They go a lot into how to select a dog, how their thought process works. etc. Very good book for any dog owner, but especially shepard owners. Ed |
| I have owned a German Shepard since I was a kid and I love them. Just make sure to use the concept of dominance down. This is the manner in which all dogs establish who is the alpha. Make sure that your animals understand that you are the Alpha, especially when they are puppies, and everything should go right as peaches. |
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a little off topic but we had an akita when i was younger he was exactly as you guys are describing the german shepherds. if you weren't family he knew it and would protect our property/lives until he died. shame is we were on vacation and my grandmother (whom he didn't know well) came over to feed/water him. he broke his runner (big cable one) and mauled her real bad. he ended up as a junkyard dog :( dad was upset but you can't keep a dog that eats your mother-in-law... or can you hat |