Posted: 7/10/2005 4:11:25 PM EDT
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I went to see a kid in the juvenile lockup this afternoon, and left about 5:15 PM. As you might guess, the detention center is not located in the best neighborhood in town. About a mile from the lockup, a patrol car swung in behind me. There are two likely reasons for a middle-aged white guy to be in that neighborhood on Sunday afternoon: dope or whores. After following me for about a half-mile, the officer blue-lighted me. I pulled over immediately (having expected the stop) and handed the officer my DL and CHL. She said "You work at the courthouse?" I said "Yes ma'am. I'm a lawyer." "Visiting a client?" she asked. (The jail and Juvenile Hall are in the same general part of town.) "Yes," I replied. She gave me my stuff back and wished me a good evening. I think drug laws are stupid. However, I think middle- or upper-class people who take their crappy business into poor neighborhoods are jackasses. The officer had good reason to believe I was up to no good, and acted appropriately to protect the neighborhood she works. Good job! |
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It was perhaps an extralegal stop (though I may have had a traffic violation - who the hell knows anymore?), but one with sufficient social utility to outweigh the inconvenience and possible legal error. I tend toward Constitutional absolutism, but it's nice to see somebody busting ass to protect a neighborhood that has no political power or influence. ETA: quick and dirty Terry analysis: 1. I am not part of the normal scenery in the neighborhood. 2. The area I was in is known for specific criminal activity. 3. The time of day and day of the week are a known time for "uptown" people to be in the neighborhood committing crimes. It may have been a legal stop even absent any possible traffic violation. In any event, I'm OK with it. It smells like even-handed application of the law to me. |
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I drive up Phillips Highway in Jax towards downtown often, and you will see Jags, BMWs, etc pulling off the road near a brotha or street ho all the time... They are not pulling over asking for directions folks  White people driving nice cars are not always upstanding citizens... |
Yeah, if you are not doing anything wrong, whats the problem, you got something to hide ? 
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Problem with that attitude is last time I checked we have freedom to drive through whatever area we want when we want I have a resonable expectation to not be unduly pulled over based on color, location etc: So yall are saying that arbitrary profiling is ok if you have nothing to hide? Give me a break 
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| If the cops knew that poor black men drove into Whiteville every Thursday between 10 AM and Noon to steal stuff - a regular caravan of thieves - would it not be reasonable for an officer to stop a black man in a shitbox '86 Olds headed out of Whiteville at 11:30 on a Thursday morning? |
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I am glad you are okay with logical profiling. I mean, if statistics show you are probably not supposed to be there, and if you are wise enough to know that, expect to get questioned, and like it. After all that should be why we or the government accumulates statistics. I would expect no less, and would relish the fact, that local PD know what looks out of the ordinary and have the balls to investigate. Maybe the media should start using these statistics in educating the viewers rather than promoting their skewed position. |
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I'm somewhat bothered by this story. But just to play devil's advocate, what if it was a situation of a Middle Eastern looking guy looking "out of place" somewhere? Let's say a group of 5-6 of them boarding a bus or plane? I'm gonna guess many ARFCOMers would say they need to be checked out. |
| I would be pissed with such a waste of my time. The cops are there to protect and serve not use their spidey senses, and stop potential crime that may or may not happen. I might have brought my arrow head collection, but I didn't so I am not going to look for it. |
But when they don't use their 'spidey senses' and s$%t happens, the city/county get sued for not doing enough
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Hmmmmm.................sorry, I didn't realize anybody would think I was serious.............. No probable cause, except for his color in that neighborhood, sounds racist to me BaaaaaI think the same thing about this that I do about checkpoints...........completely unconstitutional and in light of the recent countrywide protest of the supreme courts stupidity saying that checkpoints have been confirmed constitutional should hold even less weight......... |
| I can't believe this many gun owners are OK with this kind of B.S. I guess you would be ok with them coming in your home to inventory your weapons, I mean, if you have nothing illegal, why should you mind? I mind because this is America. And guess what, EVERYONE HERE FITS SOME KIND OF PROFILE! The simple fact you own guns would be good enough for some. |
Wasn't sure  Glad your on my side and I agree with the last about checkpoints
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Point taken, but to repeat:
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What a stretch. Just because police stop motorists doesn't mean they also would condone violating your home and 4th amendment rights.  |
| The part of this I find interesting is FLAL1A is a LAWYER. A defense lawyer at that (from what I can tell). He sees this as GOOD police work. Yet we have folks here who not lawyers saying it's bad police work, slippery slope, "your papers?" etc. I guess it's just more of the "I know what I know, don't confuse me with facts" from those who weren't there. |
It always starts off small, then get's worse and worse. Tell my grandfather 50 years ago about the Clinton gun ban, and he would have said "What a stretch." |
Yeah, that would be WRONG
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A quick and dirty red-don analysis: Do the "uptown" people travel there bringing "crime" with them, or is the "crime" offered whether or not a white lawyer was present? Seems like if she wanted to clean up the neighborhood then turn off the faucet, and the game will quit coming to water. There may be more income generating by keeping the source intact and just picking off what it attracts. Pro'lly more money for lawyers that way too! 
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Don't knock the double standard! It comes in handy sometimes! (I'm being very serious, not sarcastic) |
no it wouldn't. |
Maybe it is just me ........but I see a big difference between smoking crack and blowing up a bus........
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I dont mind getting pulled by the police and searched. As long as the officer is respectful and polite. I have seen extremely rude officers before, and it is true that you start losing respect for what they do when they act like that. I DO mind getting pulled over and searched. I don't like fishing expeditions. |