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Site News The People of Virginia VS Grabigial BanBerger | ARFCOM News
6/29/2005 3:46:03 PM EDT
I recently bought a shotgun off a member of this site.  Everything went fine and I went to pick it up today at my dealer's place.  He said he cannot transfer it because the seller did not send him a copy of the FFL it was sent from.  The seller lives in FL and I'm in IL.  As far as I know, he is wrong, because you do not have to ship a long gun from an FFL, you only have to ship it TO an FFL.  The seller has my dealer's license copy and everything, so all is fine except what i mentioned above.  

Anyway, I looked through 16 pages of the IL state police website and couldn't find anything.  If anybody can tell me what the real deal is, or better yet, give me an OFFICIAL website where it states in writing that you don't have to send it from an FFL, that would be great.  I might be totally wrong here since I haven't bought a gun in over 2 years, but in any case, i just need to get this straightened out ASAP and I don't want my dealer (only decent one around) to think I'm trying to screw him or do something illegitimate.  Thanks!
6/29/2005 3:48:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Look it up on the ATF.gov website. Interstate transfers are Federal.
6/29/2005 3:49:21 PM EDT
[#2]
IL is in fact one of THE most fucked up states regarding gun laws, no doubt. Have you thought about calling another dealer & asking him w/o giving away the other guy's name?
6/29/2005 3:50:57 PM EDT
[#3]
No federal law requiring shipper to be an FFL, only the receiver has to be.
6/29/2005 4:22:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Ive been looking and found some info which you may be able to provide to your FFl for proof... here are links and quotes.... Says nothing about being required to be sent in from an FFL. I know some dealers do request it but its not the law unless its a local or state law...

straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

ATF site with specifics....


www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1



B. UNLICENSED PERSONS


(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]


A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]


A person may only buy a firearm within the person's own state, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's own state? [Back]


A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]


(B4) May an unlicensed person obtain ammunition from an out-of-state source? [Back]


Yes, provided he or she is not a person prohibited from receiving firearms and ammunition. [18 U. S. C. 922( g) and (n)]



(B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms? [Back]


Yes, a person who –

(1) Has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
(2) Is a fugitive from justice;
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United states or an alien admitted to the United states under a nonimmigrant visa;
(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) Having been a citizen of the United states, has renounced his or her 8 citizenship;
(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or
(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm. A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information. [18 U. S. C. 922( g) and (n), 27 CFR 178.32( a) and (b)]


6/29/2005 4:26:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
No federal law requiring shipper to be an FFL, only the receiver has to be.


Absolutely. Been there, done that.
You average FFL has an IQ in the low end of the of the bell curve..
6/29/2005 4:29:23 PM EDT
[#6]
When ever I have sent a rifle or handgun across states lines on a trade all I've ever sent was a copy of my drivers lics. That has always worked for me.
Some dealers demand that a weapon come from a FFL holder. Their perogative I guess.
6/29/2005 4:29:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Ive been looking and found some info which you may be able to provide to your FFl for proof... here are links and quotes.... Says nothing about being required to be sent in from an FFL. I know some dealers do request it but its not the law unless its a local or state law...

  922 regulations...........

straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html{/url]   922 regulations...........

]www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

922 regulations...........

]www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1]www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1' target='_new'>straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html{/url]   922 regulations...........

]www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

922 regulations...........

]www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1</a>

ATF site with specifics....




B. UNLICENSED PERSONS


(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?


A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?


A person may only buy a firearm within the person's own state, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale and the state where the purchaser resides. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]



(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's own state?


A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearmif an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]  


(B4) May an unlicensed person obtain ammunition from an out-of-state source?


Yes, provided he or she is not a person prohibited from receiving firearms and ammunition. [18 U. S. C. 922( g) and (n)]



(B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms?


Yes, a person who –

(1) Has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
(2) Is a fugitive from justice;
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United states or an alien admitted to the United states under a nonimmigrant visa;
(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) Having been a citizen of the United states, has renounced his or her 8 citizenship;
(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or
(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm. A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information. [18 U. S. C. 922( g) and (n), 27 CFR 178.32( a) and (b)]


6/29/2005 4:53:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Your dealer is wrong, though that hardly matters since he has your gun and you can't have it until he transfers it to you.

Print out the Federal regs and take them into the dealer and have a friendly discussion. Maybe you can find another local dealer that knows the rules if you can't convince this one. You will end up paying extra to get your gun transferred to the other dealer and then tranferred to you but that is the price you pay for not checking all the details first.
6/29/2005 5:45:11 PM EDT
[#9]
His FFL can require all his incomming transfers to come from another FFL.  Its perfectly legal for him to do this, its also perfectly legal for him to refuse to accept the weapon and ship it back to the sender ON YOUR DIME.

Bottom line the FFL has to show where the gun came from in his bound book.  You can't just write "internet" or " Joe in Alabama"

Despite what everyone is saying about how the FFL is wrong, its his business, he runs it how he likes, perhaps you should have checked in the first place on what he requires.  Of course you can always go get your own FFL, but that is another thread for another time
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