[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Less Police, More Armed Citizens (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 5/1/2005 7:02:04 PM EDT
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The police almost always show up after the fact. It doesn't seem that more police necessarily equals less crime. They just show up afterwards, put up some yellow tape and act officious. I admire all the CSI types that "solve" crimes after the fact. It is important to bring the perps to justice. However, for the true necessary police work on the streets that needs to be done, I would like to see the "English model" of the "Bobbie". I just don't see the need for all the paramilitary wannabes that strut around looking and acting like storm troopers. FWIW, I would prefer to rely on my own wherewithall to stop a crime (mine) in progress than some cowboy who will be there 5 minutes after the fact. Let us all be cowboys! Go Florida. Jeb in '08. |
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The courts have repeatedly ruled that the role of the police is not to protect people from criminals, but to protect the community as a whole, investigate crimes after they have been committed and arrest the offenders. Quick short story. I have a sister that few years ago met some black guy at Cedar Point (amusement park in Ohio) and she gave him her phone number. When he started calling the house, my mom would hang up on him. He figured that it was because he was black (the real reason was because my mom didn't want my 16 year old sister dating or talking to some 23 year old guy), so he left a couple messages on my mom's answering machine saying that if she didn't stop interfering that "someone was going to get murdered" (his exact words). My mom saved the messages, called the police and played them for the officer that they eventually sent over. The officer's response: "Gee that's really disturbing, unfortunately he hasn't done anything so I can't do anything either. I'll file a report thought and you can come down to the station and pick up a copy." My response to my mom: "Get a gun, and I'll take you to the range to show you how to use it." |
So reign in the cowboys and put more $ into forensics. |
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Everyone knows that your own protection is YOUR problem, the Police will get there when they can, but until then if you signed up to be a victim, then you should have realized that it was gonna be hard work. The above was from a Hostage Negotiator class that I took, and it went something like if you didn't want to become a hostage you should have done something about it. Those words sort of stuck with me!! Choose not to be a victim. Who knows, you might be a daisy if you do!! |
Not at all. I've NEVER watched an episode of CSI. But it's the detectives that sift through the evidence AFTER THE FACT that solve the majority of crimes. Your standard patrol officer only nabs donuts at the 7/11. |
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Well, let's define that shall we? Without LEOs, the trash would keep growing... of course they react - we don't live in a police state where people get arrested BEFORE breaking the law. So the question is, how quickly do they typically take out the trash once it's apparent that there's a trash problem? In my neck of the woods, pretty fast. Hours or at most days. Perps don't have much time to get away with anything other than 1 or 2 crimes before getting nailed. "For everything else, there's Master Card". The more civilians are involved locally, down to the block and street level, the less crime because you know who the punks are and you keep a watch on them since the time they're 10 years old and trying to pick the lock on storage sheds. I think most people take the pragmatic approach - if a punk, criminal, crack-head or gang tried to mess with us - i.e. break in some night or bully us way into our yard and into the foyer by day, we'd have the gear and guts to do what needs doing. But we're not going to pursue them. Who will? A Posse? I'm not going to go in to someone ELSE's domain. Somebody has to do it. Those somebodies are cops. Analogous to the militia (everyone) and soldiers.... if the Chi-coms invade, we'd fight "on the landing grounds...never, surrender..." but who's going to fight 'em far from home so they don't even get close to home? Not civilians with ARs. Someone has to bring the fight to the enemy. Civilian ownership of weapons solves many problems. It doesn't solve all problems. |
You think you know. I know. Patrol officers through their street intel, traffic stops, informants, field interviews, on scene documentation/action, vehicle searches, extranneous arrests, etc, make more cases and cause more cases to be closed than any detective division could or would acting alone... And I say this as an Investigator. (Which most certainly IS NOT a "CSI type".) Your last line sums up your attitute and apparently you are looking to troll not learn... Cowboy. 
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I didnt say we dont need the LEO. I simply stated what they are. 
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And had no intention of being derogatory right? 
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Only if you feel hurt by the truth. I guess that shoe fit you pretty good. Its a simple fact that 99% of the time LEO's play trashman. |
Yep, hurts bad... You got us! Just roll yourself out to the curb and we'll be along shortly! 
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CSI, har, har. If you think that crimes get solved by those ACTORS, you live in some kind of fantasy world. My wife likes that show, I sat there and watched with her, once. The dipshits that write it don't really know much about evidence, or collecting and processing it. They make it sound as if all crimes are solved by trace evidence. These writers, write for actors, they are not cops and do NOT know dick about the lay or what they write about. |
Yep but the bad thing is that it gets engrained into people who then, like our little poster here, begin to believe that shit. Then they sit on juries and expect that shit so Defense attorneys use that shit and we are left with, well, shit... The "CSI Effect" is real and it sucks. It also demonstrates how stupid such a large percentage of the general poulace are. |
I agree. And there is a place for peace officers...just not paramilitary skinhead authoritarians. |
+1 Most crimes are solved by knowing the neighborhood and talking to people...one person knows something, another something else...put the pieces together, and you get your man...  |
From detectives going door to door after the fact. "Patrol" officers are just that. They cruise the neighborhoods looking for trouble. The trouble is the trouble is usually already happening by the time they get there. We don't need Robocop for that. The bottom line is that we need more active citizens than teat sucking cowboys. |
You saw that on Law and Order, right?  Sure that is sometimes part of it BUT, I say again:
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wannabe? yeah! I wannabe free from seeing a bunch of gungho "wannabes" parading around like they are society's saviors. I don't need or want you to protect me. There is a place in every society for "peace officers". They have their value. However, I will not live in a police state. And it seems, more and more, that is where we are heading because the sheeple want someone else to do what is their own responsibilty. P.S. What with red light cameras and radar speed photo traps...we should be able to cut all of the police forces nationwide in half. And that would be a good thing. |
OK. I have to admit I watch "it" from time to time when commercials are on whatever else I'm watching... BUT WHAT THE HELL IS "COPS"?... if nothing more than getting to ride along with "America's Law Enforcement Community"? It is one of the most pathetic, sickening shows on TV!!! I pity you fools. And really..if you only knew how silly so many of you come across, you wouldn't even allow yourselves to be filmed. Again, Less Police, More "Active" Citizens! |
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Hey Five-O and all other Police Officers here... I do thank you for your service and you do an important job. There were three points I was trying to make... 1. It is sad to me that we seem to be needing more and more police on duty. 2. I would like to see our Police Officers being more of the "Andy Griffith" type than the "Robocop" type. 3. "Average" citizens need to be more pro-active in helping to keep society peaceful and civil. But again, I do thank you for your hard work. |
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How many cops are there? Around here there are something like 200 per 120,000 people. That's not a whole lot considering the area to cover, the need for time off and shifts, and admin staff. So I don't think there are too many cops. Everyone is right that the solution will involve much more civilian involvement (and civilian ownership and training with firearms). But with the rise in literally hundreds of gangs and many other social/ideological movements fostering anarchy and criminality, and virtually all cop shows and movies featuring charcters using guns to solve problems... I think we're going to inevitably hire more cops and probably up their firepower and cruisers too. Hopefully their tactics will evolve to be more Green Beret and less occupying power, but the only way for that to happen is for civilian involvement to make it happen. |
Hey easy now, somebody has to put all that paperwork in a folder and then give it to the DA.  Tj |
Making terroristic threats over a phone is a Federal crime.....is it not? I'm quite certain he broke the law and something should have been done about it. |
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Hmm... there is a kernel of goodness/truth in what you say. However, reality also intervenes. The English Bobby and his trusty bike died in the early 1960s, to be replaced by cops in "panda cars". The start of the downwards slide towards American style policing. The reason for the change was two-fold: first a lot of criminals now were using cars, and a bobby on foot or on a biks had no chance of aprehending them. The second, and probably more important reason was cost saving. One cop in his car could now cover a much larger area, and in urban settings the density of cops could be decreased since backup would n longer be called by a whistle, but by radio, and they would arrive in cars, making it possible for backup to come from much further away. The part they didn't understand was that the deterrent factor was not in response times and area covered per cop, but in density of bobbies per square mile. One bobby on foot patrolling half a square mile was a much bigger deterrent than a cop covering 5 square miles in his panda car. The on-foot patrol was also much more familiar with his beat, and passed by much more slowly, both contributing to his ability to spot things which just didn't look right. Do you seriously think that the lower crime rates in gated community areas are simply because rich people live there, or that the gates keep the criminals out? Its because of the private police forces that they employ, who use the old tactics of patroling small areas, knowing the beat and its inhabitants. These days, cops in England and America are expected to cover huge areas (compared to older times). In those areas the crime rates are higher -- probably due to the much lower deterrent factor. They can't spend time on "trivialities", because there is always a much more important crime in progress in their area, and they are not measured by the "tranquility" of their beats, so much as by arrest/citation counts. Its unfair to blame the cops for this (assholes that some of them may be). Its the polititians that have to bear the majority of the blame. They make the job what it is, and what it is attracts the people that it does. |
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I think there are too many police, too many laws, and too many prisons with too many harmless people being held on ridiculous sentences for BS "drug" charges. The government has made sure that most sheeple are brainwashed into thinking that the drug war is the most important damned thing ever done... so that now they can not only arrest someone for drugs, but they can take all their property as well. Sooner or later even most sheeple will wise up. And I can see it now.... all the posts saying "you want your kid exposed to drug dealers"? and a bunch of general wimpiness like that. Why don't you raise your damned children correctly, so you don't have to worry about them buying drugs from drug dealers? I have news for you, if noone bought these illegal drugs, the dealers would find something else to do. But no, most people are obviously too damned fucktarded to raise their children to have any discipline at all, so they expect the police and the government to clean it all up for them. They want more police, more laws, .... but all they need is more brains. I say, if idiots want to do drugs, let them do drugs. They will eventually die of an OD or something and leave us in peace. If you are afraid that your children will be affected, then you raised them wrong. (end rant) |
| I think Over all LEO do a good job there are places were there jobs are not marginalised do to , poor leadership / redtape/ lack of man power / buget related problems or a number of other factors. Im VERY involed with my local LE so is my little sis , and Ive saw where my help has made a diff and Ill continue to help every chance I get. Im my area there are a few officers that do there job and well beyond , theres a few that just do there job and a very few that give the rest a bad name. If you see a problem in your area go up and speak to a officer if he acts unconcerned find another officer that does act like he cares. As far as the cowboy thing save it for the movies , I carry a 1911 on me all the time and a rifle in my truck but I dont go looking for trob , but if it finds me first Im prepared. |
LOL! Yep and maybe a Fed to do the big Fed job and hand that folder to a USA!
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1. Greater challenges and an increasing population require greater numbers of Po Po. 2. I would like to live in an "Andy Griffith" world. We don't. 3. Yes, real men need to step up more often. Some do. Most don't. |
That was just a stupid statement. I feel sorry for the LEO, most on the beat make less than $35,000 a year. I am a trashman and I make almost 3 times more than what the local LEO here pays their officers. In general the police in america do very good work. It's up to us to be aware of our surroundings and prepared to act. If you see something strange or out of the norm, call police and then prepare to defend yourself.(PERIOD) |
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I wish we could just go back to the "Andy Griffith/Andy Taylor" world. I know, I'm naive, stupid, etc.... It was just a TV show.... and even then a reflection of a time that, perhaps, never existed. Anyways...I know that modern times call for modern tactics. I wish peace, happiness, and safety to the LEOs that work to protect and serve.  |