Posted: 4/25/2005 2:35:14 PM EDT
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I was just watching a news report on FNC that showed a demonstration in Iraq. It got ugly, and as the reporter said "To break up the crowd, Iraqi Police fired their weapons into the air." Watching the report showed that's exactly what they did. So my question is this. How can we claim any measure of success at all if we're training those guys? I think it's safe to assume that no U.S. Military and/or LEO trainers suggested that "If the crowd gets kind of crazy, do what we do in Baltimore or San Diego-fire those rifles in the air!"  If they still think this is one of the most effective methods of crowd control, what else are they doing that suggests they will resort to their previous methods of policing, after we've left the country in their hands? Surely this type of behavior has been discussed at length with Iraqi commanders and officers, so why should we think they're going to change for the better? 
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The theatrical behavior of those few Iraqi Police caused them to be on the news, not because all, or even some of them practice those ill tactics on a regular basis. The men returning from that AO have been reporting that the Iraqi Police and military units are progressing quite well and have been very brave in actual combat. |
Right, and I understand what you mean (cultural mores, etc.), but wasn't one of the reasons we would instruct them going to be changing many of those old ways? |
You mean they haven't been running away or joining the insurgents like they have been for the past few years? I guess that's progress. |
No. They haven't been running away and joining insurgencies. I think you may have fallen for a bit of propaganda. You may have noticed the string of bombings outside of police recruiting stations, police training compounds, etc. Why has there been a "string" of bombings? Because the recruits just keep showing up to volunteer for service to their country. Bombings aren't dissuading potential recruits. They keep coming en masse. I'd label that as brave and patriotic. Wouldn't you? |
They are being instructed properly. Don't allow media propaganda to form your opinion of the whole Iraqi Police force. You don't allow the bias media reports of criminals and semi-auto rifles to form your opinion of all arfcommers, do you? Of course you don't. So don't let this isolated incident create an image of all the men volunteering in Iraq for police service.  ETA: To clarify my analogy (because I've been awake for over 18 hours). If a few people commit crimes using "assault weapons", you wouldn't label all owners with so-called "assault weapons" as criminals. Hence you shouldn't label all Iraqi volunteers as screw ups for the actions of a few. |
That ain't propaganda. It happened.
I am aware of that but I am still dissappointed in their performance. Obviously the Pentagon shares my view since there are still over 125,000 US troops in Iraq. |
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Bro, you can believe what you wish. My advice would be to hit up some of these returning vets and ask them what's really happening over there. I have a feeling you'd be surprised. Our men are doing a great job in Iraq. Maintaining a force in that theater, to me, indicates there remains many thousands of Iraqis still left to train - and many more showing up each day. Take it for what it's worth but like I said, try asking some of these troops coming back who are directly involved in training and operating with Iraqis. |
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I just got done spending a year training/advising/operating with the Iraqi National Guard. Not only does Kroagnon not have a clue what he is talking about, but it is assinine that he is spreading this crap. While ING, IP's and Iraqi Army members have deserted, look at our own civil war and try to say that there were no desertions. That des not mean that it was representive of the whole of our military at the time. Out of the company of 140 ING soldiers I had 4 that were assinated along with thier families, 6 that were taken out on thier way to and from the FOB, 2 interpreters taken out and more soldiers than you would imagine that would not tell their families (and I mean imediate family members like their husbands/wifes/parents/kids) what they do for a living. How long would should it take you to raise a military/police force of 250,000+ while in the middle of an insurgancy (it is amazing how it gets tough to make the recruits concentrate on Coman Tasks when you are in the middle of a mortar barage). Everyone in this country should be very proud of the Iraqi soldiers and police officers over there because they are the ONLY way that our troops are going to come home with a victory. One statement that I was told over and over again was when I was up walking with the point man on a patrol or walking around checking on the troops while on a mission (trying to set the example) was "this is not your country to die in, stand back over there (in a safer area), I am Iraqi and this is Iraq, my job to die here not yours." *RANT OFF* As far as it goes with the fireing in the air. One of the big problems that we had when starting up the security forces was trying to turn the soldiers and police into little americans. As a whole we pretty much ignored cultural differences and sensabilities. Different US units have different SOP's concerning warning shots I won't go any further into TTP's, but I have seen first hand demonsrations handled worse then that. Also remember that there is still a subconcsiuos fear of Sadam's methods (one of the reasons that the civilians have been so reluctant to come forward with information is because they remember what happened during Sadam's time). This is just starting to change in the last few months after the elections. If anyone has any other questions about the Iraqi forces feel free to IM me. |
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I don't know, but I just got an offer from the civilian sector to go over and help train these guys. I'm not going to do it, but if you're ex-mil or ex-detective, I can get you some work. IM me and I'll respond in a week or so. EDIT: I've heard nothing but good from my contacts in the industry about the Iraqis. |
| THe Iraqi police and National Guard in our area after a year of training and OJT seemed to be doing just fine. THey ofcourse are not up to our level but they are doing a much better job than when we arrived in Apr 04. They are doing a difficult job and the threat of violence against there families cant help. |