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Posted: 7/1/2001 8:05:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:16:44 PM EDT
If you already have a 1911, don't get a Glock. the 'feel' is altogether different, and the glock 21 is a BIG handful. Nothing wrong with a glock, but do you want to fumble for a safety that isn't there while under fire? Doesn't sound like a good plan........
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:18:19 PM EDT
Consider the Glock 30 in 45 ACP. I have close to 5000 rounds through mine with no trouble at all. Glocks are low maintenance, high-output creatures. There is some device you can attach to a Glock 19 ...some sort of Navy Seal stuff that allows you to shoot that model underwater at sharks or synchronized swimmers or whatever, but even with this, the hazards are enormous. Get a harpoon or some depth charges if you have aquatic concerns. The best safety on ANY firearm is between your ears. The Glock has a safe-action trigger that absolutely WILL NOT fire until you pull it. Soem basic conditions of carry must be observed ... the trigger must be enclosed in the holster, and no finger in the trigger guard UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE. If you follow these elemental precautions, you will have the simplest, finest, most accurate combat handgun on earth, without the high price tag and quirkyness of some of those others you mention. Glocks work, period.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:18:46 PM EDT
I have been very happy with my Para p14-45 Limited. No jams, no problems...
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:21:51 PM EDT
I've had a P12.45 for about five years now. It has the aluminum frame. My gun has never jammed or failed to fire out of well over a thousand rounds. Every once in a while it would spit brass at my head if I got lazy about gripping it. If I had to do it over again I would get the steel frame as where I live I can't carry and a little extra heft always feels better when shooting. 12 rounds of .45 in an officers size pistol is something to smile about. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:27:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2001 8:26:05 PM EDT by Renty]
I would take a Glock 21, 30, or 36 over any of the other pistols mentioned any time. If you're fond of the 1911 style pistol, than I would recommend the Glock 36 because of it's slim-line profile, which has a closer feel of a 1911. http://www.glock.com/_45.htm [pistol]
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:28:56 PM EDT
I have had several .45's and they were ok..... But then I bought a HK usp .45...love at first shot !!!! a month later I bought the compact .45 and am now saving for a tactical !!! NEVER COMPROMISE !!!! [x]
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:32:38 PM EDT
I have a Para Ordnance P12 alloy frame and it's a good gun, but I prefer the feel of a full size 1911. My carry gun is a Kimber Gold Match and I have had four other Kimbers...never had a jam out of any of em and they've all been very accurate. As for the capacity issue, use Wilson 8-rounders and that will give you 9 with one in the chamber. If that aint enough, you're probably up shit creek anyway.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:38:34 PM EDT
You can grip reduction from Robar for the Glock series pistols. I did it to mines.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:45:42 PM EDT
How about the USP 45 compact.Grip is almost the same size as a 1911 single stack.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:48:00 PM EDT
I have a glock 21 and I love it, but if you have small hands or any of the people your taking to the range have small hands then its probably not the best choice. Its a big gun but it never screws up and for accuracy there is a company called ccfa that makes an o-ring barrel for the G21 to make it more like the HK tactical. I also shoot a single stack 1911 and I like them both. The Paras are great I don't own one but I wish I did, but the 14-45 has a pretty big grip. Any gun with a double column mag is going to be bigger than the kinber you got. If you want the best out of the box, go HK tactical, but most of us cant afford it so I bought a glock and plan on making it like the HK. Another Glock downside is HI-caps are TOOOO expensive. I shot the glock before I bought it, go to the range or find a friend with the guns your looking at and ask if you can take a few shots. Sometimes you'll be suprised by what you like and what hurts your hands.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 8:58:09 PM EDT
iNuhBaDNayburhood, I purchased my first USP45 variant 1 and I enjoyed it so much I bought a variant 2. Its a chunk of a firearm requiring a large paw, but I'm sure your aware of that fact already. As to reliability, there what one would expect from HK. Good luck on whatever you purchase. Ai
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 9:20:31 PM EDT
Well, why not get a POLYMER KIMBER? They hold 14 rounds and are just as good as a normal Kimber. Mike
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 9:28:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2001 4:49:43 AM EDT by Confederate]
I like the Polymer Kimber also, but how easy is it to get the 14rd mags?? Found Kimber 14rd mags on gunsamerica for only $125 each.
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 9:41:21 PM EDT
Definitely Buy a Sig P220.... Great shooter right out of the box !! Check out the newest Sig Info Site: [url]www.SIGTalk.com[/url] [url]www.SIGForums.com[/url] (we're looking for sig experts to become Moderators !!)
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 9:45:19 PM EDT
the para ord hi cap mags are very expensive, ive heard they go up to $100, ive also heard that if the para ord is jamming a lot then convert it to series 70 (its a series 80 design), dont know if this really works or how it would solve a jamming problem, but it did for a friend so its worth a shot. i think caspian makes a double stack 1911 frame, you could build up a gun. 10 rnd mags are available for the 1911. why not go for a SIG P220 ?
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 10:32:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2001 10:31:35 PM EDT by Face_N_The_Crowd]
iN - some thoughts: If you like the angle of a 1911 - look to HK over a Glock. Glock has a bad rep for KB in the larger calibers. I am not saying 'yes' not saying 'no' - do your own homework and decide for yourself. One thing I will say - everyone over at the HKpro website is STILL WAITING for a pic of a KBed HK (other than that one that was butchered in a porting job by an incompetent gunsmith). The HK full has a big grip, but it is about the same as the Glock 21. HK controls in a Variant 1 are very much like a 1911. Accuracy, dependability - well shoot one and talk a few owners - I think we'ed all give it rather high marks to say the least. The downside for HK: cost. USP full in HE @ $690.00. 12 round mags @ $100 - $110 (about the same for a G21), regular 10 round mags - $40.00. Fewer holsters to choose from. Crappy trigger. I have a HK full and a compact. Between the two I have about 15,000 rounds through them - no failures, no breakages of any kind, no parts replaced. Did you check out a Sig 220?
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 10:44:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 11:32:49 PM EDT
What you want is the CZ-97. It has the thumb-web guard you like, steel frame, .45 cal, accurate and reliable, 10-rnd magazine, for the low low price of $480. And CZ arms are quality. Just as good as Glocks and HK, but cheaper. [img]http://www.shooterstore.com/jgsales/images/cz97.gif[/img] Buy it at [url]www.jgsales.com[/img]
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 11:34:07 PM EDT
Sig 220
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 4:13:54 AM EDT
I will be taking new shooters out with my new handgun, and if they have the habit of putting their finger on the trigger, then I'm not going to like handing them a glock.
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Why have a new shooter use a .45? Get a good .22 pistol (such as the Ruger 22/45) and they'll be more comfortable while you're saving money.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 4:35:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By iNuhBaDNayburhood: What handgun should I get? I have narrowed it down to the following: 1.) Kimber Custom Stainless Full-Size (Really Like It, but hate the 7rd mag capacity limits) PS. I already own one of these, but not sure if I should get another just like it. It has VERY accurate and flawless machining/functioning. 2.) Para Ordinance P1245 or P1445 (I like the concept of double stacked 45 in a general 1911 configuration, but both gunshops I visited said they ALWAYS jam a lot even after breakin periods, and they'vee bad quality control, is this true? Or are there just a few bad eggs?) 3.) Glock .45 ACP I like the glock's ruggedness & ability to fire underwater (which would F@#k up your eardrums) if necessary, but I ABSOPOSILUTELY HATE their so-called "SAFETY" device. I will be taking new shooters out with my new handgun, and if they have the habit of putting their finger on the trigger, then I'm not going to like handing them a glock. 4.) H&K .45 USP is VERY VERY VERY expensive, but then again, so is the Kimber. However, the frame is a little too big for my little rat claws (I think). This week I get my paycheck, and REALLY WANT a new TOY!!! I hate polymer frame pistols, as they tend to stray away from the traditional 1911 style handgrip (I LOVE the guard protecting your thumb webbing!), and I prefer metal. But I'm open to suggestions as to what I should get. The kimber is fantastic, but VERY EXPENSIVE! My GF doesn't even know I bought the last kimber! PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT PARA ORDNANCE!!! I WANNA KNOW MORE ABOUT THEM TOO! ARE THEY WORTH IT??? Please Respond, I'll be taking a poll.
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Sorry I can't see any of the other replies, something's going on with this new board. Anyway, I'd go with the Kimber. My complaint with the Para is how fat the grip is. You should try one, if you like the fat grip OK, its just not for me. Another advantage (some say disadvantage) with the standard 1911 format (Kimber) is there are so many aftermarket / custom parts readily available for this format. Another difference, check the triggers. Para and Glock have different triggers than the single action 1911 trigger. You gotta decide for youself what type trigger you like, for me its the single action. As to pistol capacity, for me anyway its at the bottom of my priority list. The newer 1911 mags hold 8 and you can always buy extended mags up to 10 rounds and you still have the slim, single stack grip. I have never shot the USP 45 so I can't comment.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 5:08:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 7:09:38 AM EDT
Another difference, check the triggers. Para and Glock have different triggers than the single action 1911 trigger. You gotta decide for youself what type trigger you like, for me its the single action.
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Not quite. Except for the LDA series, the Para Ordnance pistols have single action 1911-style triggers.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 7:55:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuck: Considering "full sized pistols:" 1. Kimber and other "customs" are typically too tight to function reliabily under all conditions, other than on the range.
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Not in my experience, or that of just about everyone I know IRL that owns one. My carry gun is a stainless Kimber Gold Match, and it has over 8,000 rounds through it with not a single jam. What "conditions" do you have in mind anyway? Are you going to carry a pistol as your primary weapon while trudging through the woods fighting the "bad guys?" Personally, I don't see the upside of a handgun that can function after laying in mud for ten days...when the hell would a defensive handgun HAVE to survive being dunked in mud for ten days? All a carry gun has to survive is a bit of sweat and some lint.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 8:05:27 AM EDT
Stick with what you are most comfortable with, if that is the Kimber, well, you could do a lot worse. Try some of the high quality eight round mags, they work fine in my blue classic. I find the Para seems to recoil less, probably due to the slightly thicker grip distributing the impulse over a larger area of my hand, more of a slap than a "karate chop". If you decide to go with a Glock stay away from aftermarket "recoil reducers" and handloads, these seem to be the common factors in the KBs that I have read about. The mags go for about the same as Para Hi-caps so that is a tie. Someone out there makes a 1911 design pistol designed around a 10 round mag that splits the difference between pre ban Paras and single stack .45s. It may be Brown or Wilson, one of the big names. It's called something like a ZR-45, check their websites.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 12:31:42 PM EDT
iNuhBaDNayburhood, I have a Kimber full size and a Glock 30. Both shoot well. The Kimber is a dream to shoot ( "flawless" as you put it). It is more accurate and I love the 1911 styling. I bought the Glock 30 last August on an impulse. I always wanted to add a Glock to my collection but had intended to get the G17 or G19. I have no complaints about the G30 either. But I have only put 100-200 rounds through it simply because I like the Kimber better. Since you already have a Kimber I don't see the reasoning behind getting another. I know it's never possible to have too many guns, but if your short on cash I would opt for a model that you don't yet have. I still want to get that G17. If you decide on the Glock maybe we could make a deal. I've got the tupperware, (2) mags., paperwork and I'll throw in the Uncle Mike's paddle holster. ( $450 ??? )
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 12:40:15 PM EDT
Sig220. IMHO the best DA 45ACP pistol.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 3:40:43 PM EDT
OK you got me what does KB stand for??
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 3:46:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2001 3:44:21 PM EDT by Ratters]
KaBoom- .40 cal glocks have unsupported chambers and people have had them blow up when using bad reloads or lead bullets. There are aftermarket barrels with fully supported chambers if you care to use lead. Haven't given it a second thought when shooting factory ammo out of my G23. Not and issue for the Glock 21 or 30 anyway.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 5:25:59 PM EDT
Don't discount the HK .45F because of the high cost. That high cost gets you high quality with HK. If you do your shopping carefully you can find one that is as affordable as the glock. I picked up my .45F 3 months ago for $550 NIB. idaho-ar15
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 5:48:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2001 5:48:29 PM EDT by Sparky315]
If you're going to carry it, the Kimber wins hands down IMHO. Glock and HK both make very good .45's, but they are quite a bit bulkier. I'm sure some folks have no trouble concealing them, but I'm sure not one of them. If I were going to carry something the size of a Glock 21, I'd probably make it the Glock 20 with Silvertips, just in case I have to shoot any bears, armored vehicles, or professional wrestlers. The Glock 36, though, is VERY easy to carry. A couple of my co-workers use them off-duty and are very pleased. Recoil is more noticeable than with a 30, but it conceals better.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 5:50:49 PM EDT
The lack of a fully supported chamber in Glocks makes the feeding more reliable. Also, the .40 S&W cartridge is known for producing kB!'s in other pistols besides the Glock, like the HK USP. For more information on the Glock Kb!, see [url]http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/Forum3/HTML/013546.html[/url] and [url]http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-glock-kb.html[/url] In my opinion the Glock is the best pistol that you can buy for a combat or defensive handgun. [pistol]
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 5:55:39 PM EDT
I wouldn't pay $450 for a used Glock, unless those magazines are pre-ban. NIB Glocks can be had for around $420 if you shop around gun shows and online dealers. [pistol]
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 6:36:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ratters: KaBoom- .40 cal glocks have unsupported chambers and people have had them blow up when using bad reloads or lead bullets. There are aftermarket barrels with fully supported chambers if you care to use lead. Haven't given it a second thought when shooting factory ammo out of my G23. Not and issue for the Glock 21 or 30 anyway.
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Thank you. Always nice to learn something new.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 4:11:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 7:11:03 PM EDT
I can highly recommend the Para Ordnance P14. I've had a Limited for a while now, and love it. As a matter of fact, I just bought my wife one for her birthday, she loves it too.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 7:48:25 PM EDT
I would get the Glock 30 over the 36...the 36 is much harder to shoot accurately, less comfortable and not all that much smaller.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 9:09:13 PM EDT
IMHO, you cant go wrong with a Glock, or Springfield Armory in the 1911 model. Good luck!!
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 10:02:46 PM EDT
Love my 1911 and wouldnt trade it, but I did shoot my buddys P220 the other day and think I might have to add one to my cabinet. You really should consider this gun. One of the best .45 I've ever shot. Great pointability.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 10:21:16 PM EDT
If you have big hands and like a 1911 the para p14 is a nice gun. The plastic trigger has to go, but thats no big deal. What kinda moron puts a plastic triger in a 700 dollar handgun? I've looked at glocks but they feel funny in my hand. They just dont point good for me. Which one is most comfortable in your hand? forget what all of us say and go try them out. You could have the badest wizbang handgun on earth. Or you can have one you like to shoot.
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