[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dr. Death (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 3/27/2005 2:54:24 PM EDT
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So we've all seen all the Terri threads going on, personaly I don't want to get involved with any of them. I have a different question on another similiar topic, Jack Kevorkian. Personally, I think he is a good person that has done good things. The people that he assisted all showed that they wanted to end their suffering and agony, none of them were like Terri in that they couldn't display their true feelings. I know that some people here are religously motivated (myself included as to some things) and that suicide is wrong in most religions. But in the cases of people who are suffering so badly, and can't handle the pain anymore, is it wrong to end it? And is it wrong to have someone assist you in ending it peacefully and painlessly? |
+1 Living in a state where physician assisted suicide is legal and practiced gives me insight that I wish I didn't have. Now people such as my 90 year old Grandfather talks about ending it all as to not drain his heirs of their inheritance or to be a burden on his kids when he's no longer able to live independently. My Grandfather isn't independent in his thinking. The fact is that in death, true natural death we all learn a valuable life lesson, one that is robbed from us by the easy way out. Life is never easy, death shouldn't be any easier. Patty |
Why? As far as I'm concerned, if someone is suffering and wants to die, we should give tham the option of leaving this world their way. Keeping someone alive just because we can, despite their anguish is cruel and unusual punishment in my book. |
You believe that people who are suffering so badly and in such agony should endure that pain, even if they truley want out of it? |
Of course you can't relate Hitler to Jack Kevorkian. One forced his will on others while the other one helped people conduct their own will. |
What's the problem...Hitler succesfully eradicated millions of old, sick and handicapped people. Sure, most of them didn't WANT to die, but evenually they were in enough pain where they DID want to die. Sgatr15 |
IMO Kevorkian was no better than a serial killer with a pseudo-political justification. He turned himself into a magnet for all sorts of ill and depressed people and encouraged and assisted them to kill themselves for his own ghoulish amusement. Living in MI, I saw alot of his antics. I stand by my dismissal of him as a fruitcake. |
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It amazes me how many people on these boards constantly profess about we as people should be able to make decisions on how we want to live our lives without any government intervention, and with the next breath would deny a person's right to leave this world their way if they were in anguish and suffering. |
You have to have limits set by an agreed standard. |
So if I kill you, you wouldn't want the government to get involved in holding me accountable? Don't be silly. SGatr15 |
So how about the topic at hand? |
First, judges should not have anything to do with that situation at all. It's a FAMILY MATTER. Second, apparently when laws are clear as to who has certain rights as compared to others in matters, you feel that they should continuously be dragged back into court over and over again. |
The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happyness is pretty clear. SGatr15 |
Not even comparable, Please. If I had a terminal illness and wanted to leave this world MY way, and asked you to assist me with my last wish and it was documented and without dispute, then NO I dod not want anyone to hold you accountable for being my angel of mercy. |
| Hmmm, this is interesting, all the true feeling come out, all the people who are against removing the feeding tube in the Shaivo case suddenly also compare Jack Kevorkian to Hitler or a serial killer. I guess this isn't really about the 14th amendment, or what Terri wants, or an evil husband at all, its really about a bunch or religious people pushing their will on others. I think some people have a lot more in common with the ROP than they would ever like to think. Flamesuit on. |
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Kervorkian was doing it and getting his jollies off it also. And forget about the DR. part the guy worked on DEAD people most of his life. He basically taunted the state until he screwed up and video recorded a death. He belongs behind bars and I hope he stays there til he dies. More then a few people he helped die were not terminal, he helped them die for his own egotistical gain. I really believe he is a bit sociopathic, and has a fetish about death. I am jusy waiting for the day when someone else determines your quality of life and if someone is better off dead. Already going on in some European Countries. And of course, all the mentally retarded are not "really" all there, are they? |
His ghoulish so-called 'art', praise for Nazi medical expermentation and tons of whacko interviews on local TV and op-eds in the local rags. He was an attention-whore of the first order. If your crack about 'first hand' means that you can only judge people by the things you hear them say to you directly, then you must not know much about anything. For example, you could never vote. Again, I will repeat myself, he was a complete dingbat. |
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Some people believe they know what is best for you, some people believe only you know what is best for you. No right or wrong here, just a difference of philosophy. On second thought, yes there is a wrong.....it's forcing your will and beliefs on others. Sometimes I try to be diplomatic, but it just doesn't work out. |
You tell me how much happiness or life or liberty that poor woman had before all of this came to light. |
You had to bring religion up didn't ya? |
I would be killing you, which is murder. I don't murder people. SGatr15 |
Sorry sarge..... Stupidest analogy ever  If I end up with some horrible disease and all the damn hospitals and such want to do is keep me drugged up and sucking air through a tube, I PRAY for a 'Dr. Kevorkian' to give me the dignity and possibility to end my own life when I'm ready. Without pain, suffering and the asociated trauma to my loved ones. If I know I'm on my way out ANYWAYS, at least let me do it on my terms..... After all, it is MY BODY. Would you rather I blew my brains all over the bathroom wall or something, for my spouse and/or children to have to see, after I'm gone ? In my opinion THAT is selfish and cruel....... Let me die peacefully and of my own volition if the necessity arises...... |
If I want to end my own life I can without ANY outside interference if I am capable of taking some pills or 100 other ways. To allow some "Dr" to do it brings in outside forces that do not always have the patients best interest in mind. |
| I honestly don't know what to think of assisted suicide. I've always felt suicide was a coward's way out... so my opinion of assisted suicide is close to that...... but suicide to help your descendants financially or morally. I really dunno..... as for kevorkian, I don't know much about him other than he helped people commit suicide painlessly... I think God and him are going to have a nice long conversation when he arrives at heaven's gate on whether or not he should be admitted.... I mean if you killed yourself because there was nothing left for you and to help your kids I guess it's up to you.... but it's also rather selfish because you're tearing yourself away from family who love you. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of thing. It's not really something I give much thought of. I personally feel suicide is the true sign of cowardice and selfishness. |
Killing another human being is not always murder. When a soldier goes off to war doe she "MURDER" the enemy or kill them? He "KILLS" them because the enemy put themselves into that position knowingly. Just like a terminal patient would "KNOWINGLY" put themselves in the situation to have someone assist them in death. |
Uh huh. Just so I am clear with you. If you want to kill yourself go right ahead. I will try to stop you however as no sane person chooses to die. However, that is not that same as refusing medical treatment and the individual making a CONSCIENCE decision to do so. That person I would have no problem with. Having someone else kill you is murder. Kevorcian is a murderer. Sgatr15 |
And yes, today I still feel that it was the right thing to do. I guess I'm just a horrible poaching animal killer. |
So what you are saying is that taking human life, no matter the circumstances is murder, how dare you call all our troops in Iraq murderers, who are you, Jane Fonda? |
Yes, YOU can do it yourself, but sometimes others are not capable of doing that for physical reasons and would need a set of hands to carry out the act. |
My mentally handicapped sister is 48 years of life and still going. If you think you have the right to determine her life is not worthwhile then who says I don't have the right to say your life isn't worth while? see where this can get us? Sgatr15 |
But the people who Kavorkian helped were in different situations. It wasn't just because their boyfriends broke up with them. |
So if my horse has a broken leg I can shoot it......so if you have a broken leg can I shoot you too?? You can't compare animals to humans in this way |
Well, if my analogy with Hitler was over the line, which it was BTW, then this one sure as heck is. Sgat1r5 |
Sarge, you are not comparing apples to apples. |
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I wouldn't kill an animal just because it can't do it's "job" anymore. Humans also have the ability to tell you exactly how they feel and what their wishes are, so we don't have to make the distiction ourselves, we can let them choose. |
What you fail to understand is this. People in cronic pain very often make irrational decision dealing with their health. Trust me, I know. And pain is not an issue anyways. Morphine and other meathods will remove pain. Sgatr15 |
| The whole point of this is we shouldn't be able to assist someone in killing themselves...they want to do it and our efforts to help them have failed, then they should go about their business and do what they want about it....but they shouldn't rely on some "Dr" or whoever else to help them. Its like the pieces of shit who do the "suicide by cop" bullshit..They can't do it themselves so they rely on the LEO to do it for them |
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