Posted: 1/16/2005 6:10:16 AM EDT
| How tough is it. Can it handle hot loads with ease or will it go pop? I have been reading a bit about it and I have found mixed feeling. |
| I got stainless one and I like it. I dont hunt though I just shoot it a little once in a while. I just bought some Buffalo Bore ammo and the stuff is high pressure. There is a disclaimer that the guide gun is one of the limited list made to handle the ammo. Im set now if a lion or elephant gets out of the zoo. or a REALLY big zombie. I just think the power from this ancient cartridge is amazing when loaded up to current specs. It really doesnt have as much recoil as I would have imagined but I have yet to shoot the Buffalo Bore stuff. 430 grains should be interesting. |
I don't really have an answer for that. I have just been looking around at different style brush guns and I like the marlin 1895, but it seems like people who reload these .45/70 cartridges are saying that they need to be run only through a bolt gun or single shot. I am looking for hlep. I can't imagine I would need anything else besides over the counter ammo, but I am just trying to gether a bit of info. |
|
This may help somewhat; "There's the original black powder pressure levels to which Federal, Remington and Winchester factory loads adhere in loading the .45-70. These loads, all of which propel a 300 gr. bullet at 1,810 fps, generate about 21,000 CUP (or about 25,000 psi), and can be safely fired in contemporary guns like the 1873 Springfield, the 1874 Sharps, the 1886 Winchester and the various rolling blocks of the day. The other .45-70 performance levels are strictly handloading propositions and appear in the various data sources with bold warnings that they are not to be fired in anything but certain specified guns. What we'll call "Level II Performance" for the .45-70 is identified for use only in the current version of the Marlin 1895 (still a 336). The maximum loads listed, for example, in the Hornady and Barnes manuals, are said to be within the maximum allowable pressure limit of 40,000 CUP. The "Level III Performance" data for the .45-70 is meant strictly for use in the Ruger No.1 (and the old No.3), the Browning 1885, and custom rifles based on the '98 Siamese Mauser that was designed specifically for rimmed cartridges. The loads listed for these guns generate pressure of 50,000 CUP and of course should never be used in guns belonging in the other two categories" |
You are in for a treat my freind... Just a hint... make sure the buttstock of the rifle is FIRMLY in your shoulder  I have fired the guide gun with this load... impressive. No way I would use this ammo in my trapdoor. I dont know why anyone would have problems reloading the 45-70 for a guide gun. Plenty of loads, bullets and brass available. I wouldnt hesitate to buy one these...nice gun IMHO My only 45-70 is a trapdoor Springfield.. I shoot a 500 Grain soft lead roundnose lubed with SPG on top of 70 grains of FFG with a Federal magnum primer. I am afraid to shoot smokeless in the trapdoor. I figure I cant go wrong using blackpowder, after all that is what it was designed for. |
|
A guide gun will handle loads that are plenty hot enough to take down anything in North Amercia, and most of Africa. How much hotter do you need in a 7lb handy rifle? I do 460 grain hard casts at about 1700fps with Reloader#7 in my Guide Gun and it kicks so hard, you do NOT want to bench it without a sandbag between the rifle and your shoulder (even with a Pachmyr Decellerator pad). It's a fast handling brush gun with a lot of power for it's size. With the short stout barrel, it's also astoundingly accurate. At 100 yards, it's more accurate than my Remmy 700 in 308, but past 100 and the heavy projectiles have rainbow trajectories. It is definately a short range gun. You can straighten out the trajectories somewhat with lighter 350 grain bullets ( I get them to about 2100fps in my loads), but they still arc and drop a lot compared to more efficient and faster .30 caliber bullets. If you want more power, get a bigger rifle, but it will not have the sweet handling characteristics of this rifle anymore. The only bitch I have had with it is that Marlin uses a tiny 440 pitched thread screws to hold the forend cap on, and they strip the mounting dovetailed block really easy. I drilled mine out and tapped it to 8/32 and put on stainless button head hex screws on. Looks much nicer and is a helluva lot easier to get the screws on straight without stripping. The stock sights are standard crappy, buckhorn rear and front brass dot post, but they are easily changed to the much nicer Ashley Ghosts. I have a scout scope setup on mine too. Here's my 45/70gg: I have a 444P just like it too:  |
|
I knew someone who apparently put pistol powder instead of rifle powder into the hand-loads he was using (at least, that's what he told me. I know dick about reloading). Anyway, give me a minute while I get the results posted. Pics coming..... ETA: Here you go....    Now, I own one of these myself, but it's virgin because I haven't had a chance to fire it yet, and because I also want to set it up with a scout scope. I LOVE the damned thing for it's heft, it's size, and its handling. The incident above goes to show that you must be VERY careful when reloading. Best of luck! |
DAMN  all I can say is DAMN......
|
| this is one of the things that hold me back from reloading. i'd love to reload but ive never done it and have no clue as to what m doing. so if i buy the components and promptly load up the wrong powder im looking for grief. so how do i learn what is appropriate or not? |
|
The Barnes Reloading Manual #3 lists 3 different "sections" of reloading data for the 45-70. One is for the Ruger #1, which is the highest pressure loads due to the strength of the rifle. Another section is for modern Marlin lever-actions, and last a section for everything else like old trapdoor rifles. The load data for the Marlin rifles put the muzzle velocity of the 45-70 slightly faster than that of the 450 Marlin catridge. The 450 Marlin cartridge was developed solely to take advantage of the higher pressure offerend by modern propellants and firearms. Basically the 450 Marlin is a 45-70 with a belt near the base to prevent it from being loaded into a weaker 45-70 action. So the answer is: The Marlin rifle is a tough rifle. The failure you see above can be attributed to human error, not a cheap rifle. If you load too much or the wrong powder into any cartridge it is a catastrophy waiting to happen. If you want to see this for real go to DSA arms at www.dsarms.com/pressure_test.cfm to what happens to a FAL type rifle when it is exploded on purpose. |
Your first stop is a reloading manual and the proper tools. Pistol cartridges are the best platform to learn from, less chance for a KB. |
Amen. The guy whose scrap iron is shown above DID know what he was doing, so to your comment I will add: PAY ATTENTION WHEN RELOADING! |