Posted: 12/8/2004 7:24:48 PM EDT
I think they leave a little bit more air inside the bulbs then they have to. They do this so that it will burn out sooner and you'll have to buy more from them.
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The gas inside keeps it from burning the filament too quickly. If they put "too much gas", the bulbs would explode once they'd heated for more than a few seconds. *has had experience making his own light bulbs* But yes, they do make it so you have to buy new bulbs every year or so. We change our bulbs every two or three years. The bulb in my reading lamp is the one it came with, and the lamp was purchased in 1973. A New York City fire department is also famous for having a lightbulb that's been shining continiously since 1895, give or take a few power outages. |
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Right. They would burn out INSTANTLY if there is any air inside. They prefill with pure argon, then draw it down. The problem with lightbulbs these days is the quality of the filaments. Tungsten does not melt and cannot be drawn into a wire by normal means. Tungsten is ground into a fine dust, mixed with a type of plastic and then extruded through a die that coils the wire as its extruded. The finished coils are then fired in a furnace to bond the wires. Good bulbs use a filament that is made of very finely ground tungsten which when fired, is more defect free. Crappy bulbs have many more defects in the filament from the coarse ground tungsten and therefore, burn out sooner. Quality bulbs will eventually darken from the tungsten evaporating from the filament. Halogen bulbs have a bit of a halide which "cycles" the tungsten from the wall of the bulb back to the filament, keeping the glass clear and allowing higher current flux, making the bulb burn brighter. |
I think he know this…  I have replace all filaments bulbs with florescent where I can, it does make a difference in the electric bill and the florescent last for years. Of course florescent light will not always do but I am hoping in a few years that LED blubs will evolve to a point that they can replace most traditional bulbs. |
Exactly,purchase 130 volt bulbs rather than the usual 120's. They last much longer,for some reason nobody knows about this,but it's true. |
The 1/2 figure was given to me in engineering classes. I did some checking, and most bulbs aren't that severe, but they do use MORE juice. Basically, if you run a 120v bulb at 110v, it lasts longer but uses energy less efficiently. They used to package 240v bulbs as 120v long lifes, so they would use 2x the energy. |
The calcuation(s) are incorrect. If you wish, I shall toss an Amprobe or a Hioki onto a pigtail socket with a 220volt lamp to prove the point. |
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<soapbox mode> Why are we even discussing incandescent light bulbs? They are as obsolete as gas streetlamps. Compact Fluorescent is the ONLY way to go – 6-10 times the lifespan, while consuming 1/4 the power. They're now selling for under 2 bucks apiece when you buy 'em in 6-packs...and you save $20-$40 in energy costs over the bulb's lifespan. They are one of the few items that are good for both the environment AND the pocketbook... </soapbox mode> |
Expand your horizons  , I have been hearing on the radio of LED lamps (same output lumens). No, I have not even seen one yet but, I am inclined to believe this shall be the next big seller.
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I've got one. Found it at a computer show, came from Japan I guess. Works pretty good, and unlike flourescent bulbs the light on this one isn't harsh. Looks very much like an incandescent. Can't wait till they're on the market in more numbers. Mine is only the equivalent of a 40w bulb, but I guess brighter ones are out there. |
I appreciate the input. I have been 'hearing' of 75 watt equivalents, this would be most welcomed. Time shall lower the price tag of these items but, the future does look 'brighter' for cheaper. (Pun intended). |
"Harsh?" You're painting compact fluorescent bulbs with a very broad brush, there, SS...There are several hundred CF bulbs currently on the market, in a wide variety of color temperatures. Many of them are indistinguishable from an incandescent bulb. |
Jesus, now I've gone and slandered the very noble flourescent community and its many supporters. I can be so callous.  Look, since it's a big deal to you, I'll restate my position. I have owned 3 or 4 different varieties of CF bulbs, and most had a very different light than the incandescents I have around the house. Ididn't mean to stereotype bulbs, we know how sensitive they can be. I probably just got some CF bulbs from the bad part of town. I'm sure there are good ones. |
Wasn't aware that anyone makes a compact fluorescent bulb that draws 96 watts!  I'm guessing that they are advertised as producing the same light as 96 watt incandescent bulbs – which would have them actually consuming around 25-30 watts. |
[rant mode on] Compact fluorescents claim to have the same lumen outputs as certain incandescents. However, they're always DIMMER than the incandescent wattage they claim to be equivalent. I got a 23W compact on my desk that claims to equal a 100W regular in output, but it's DIMMER than a 60W. and why not make 50W compacts that equal a 200? I WANT BRIGHT LIGHTS, DAMMIT! [rant mode off] |
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My lamps with 3 way switches always fuck up the CF's. No idea why, I guess there is a resistor circuit in there, and when the CF sees voltage that is too low all the magic smoke comes out. The first time it happened I was awakened by a cracking sound at about 4am, smelling smoke. That will get your ass puckered.
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A big +1, I’m going to all candles. But seriously, I'm a light snob and I like the low voltage halogens, it terms of the esthetic light quality and the power they draw. But then again I'm talking about in and around the house where I like my lighting to be understatedly dim. For a shop or a work room where your really need to see in detail, you can always supplement with florescent tubes. |
I find the light from incandescent bulbs to be more pleasing to the eye. |
Will never happen ....................... just like a gasoline that would last longer. |
No, I'm not wrong. Here's an example using a 130v bulb at 110/120v. Myth: Long-life bulbs are better or more efficient than regular bulbs Long-life bulbs are perhaps the most wasteful electrical devices. Long-life bulbs are designed to operate at 130 volts, but normal light bulbs are designed to operate at 110-120 volts. This means that long-life bulbs don't have the optimum amount of current flowing through them to produce light. They burn at a lower temperature. This allows them to last longer, but their efficiency is less than a normal incandescent bulb, which is terribly inefficient to begin with. A 60-Watt incandescent light bulb puts out 840 lumens, 14.0 lumens per Watt. A 100% efficient light puts out 340 lumens per watt. Dividing 14 by 340, we see that the light bulb is 4.1% efficient. A 60-Watt incandescent long-life bulb puts out 585 lumens, 9.8 lumens per Watt. Dividing 9.8 by 340, we see that the long-life light bulb is only 2.9% efficient. Therefore, a normal bulb is about 1.4 times more efficient than a long-life bulb. A fluorescent bulb is a far better alternative to incandescent bulbs. For example, a 30-Watt compact fluorescent bulb puts out about 2,000 lumens, 67 lumens per Watt. Dividing 67 by 340, we see that the fluorescent bulb is about 20% efficient :Long life bulbs I was told by an electrician to use 130-volt bulbs, which he said were outlawed by the electric bulb makers because they last so long. He said that electricians can buy them and not the public. I found them and have used them for 5 years and he is right! They last forever. Why is that? How do they compare to more energy efficient lights? -- J When you use a bulb designed for 130 volts in a fixture that operates at 120 volts, the bulb's filament runs at less than its rated temperature. This temperature change has two consequences--one good and one bad. The good news is that operating the filament at less than its normal temperature slows the evaporation of tungsten atoms and prolongs the filament's life. That's why your bulbs are lasting so long. The bad news is that incandescent bulbs become much less energy efficient as you lower their filament temperatures. The light emitted by the filament is thermal radiation and its color spectrum and brightness depend almost exclusively on its temperature. These 130-volt bulbs emit redder and dimmer light than a normal bulb and they are significantly less energy efficient as a result. Incandescent bulbs already emit far more invisible infrared light than visible light and operating them at reduced temperatures only makes this problem worse. I recently read the statement "this bulb burns cooler than a normal bulb" on a package of super-long-life bulbs--as though burning cooler was a good thing rather than a serious shortcoming. As energy becomes more and more precious, making the most of it becomes more and more important. I would suggest saving these 130-volt bulbs for fixtures that are so difficult to reach that you want to avoid changing bulbs at all costs. In more easily accessible fixtures, replacing bulbs is only a minor inconvenience associated with improved energy efficiency. Better still, switch to fluorescent lamps--which are much more energy efficient than even the best incandescent lamps. |
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F4YR, you've explained "efficiency" correctly but you have carefully avoided explaining how the long life bulbs use more "juice". "juice" would be Amps and, I'm sorry, even the math of basic Ohm's Law says that a 60W 130V bulb will use less "juice" at 120V while putting out less lumens. Actually, the 60W 130V bulb will only be a 51W bulb when operated at 120V, using only .425Amps vs .5Amps for the 60W 120V bulb. It'll last longer, use less juice but will be dimmer. I think that the bulbs outlawed by the manufacturers happened about the same time that the Fish carburetor was outlawed by the Ethyl Corporation. Never happened! |
CF is getting to be VERY popular amongst aquatic gardeners (people who grow plants in aquariums). They generally use lights in the color-temperature ranges of 5100K - 6700K. |
Need more details! Size of tank? CO2? Substrate? |
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Light bulbs are a "razor blade" business. What do you do when one burns out? You buy another one. What is the financial incentive to make one that lasts forever? None The light bulb manufacturers can dial in exactly how long they want the bulbs to last by adjusting the filament thickness and the air mixture in the bulb. The reason that argon (or other inert gas) is used is so that the tungston does not react with the air when it is excited and breaks free of the filament, instead it redeposits on the filament. Using bulbs rated at significantly higher voltage than they are used is not a good idea, because it disrupts this cycle. |