A Mesage From Fallujah... > General Discussion

Posted: 11/22/2004 8:46:46 AM EDT

This message was sent to my by a colleague. Her husband is a Major of Marines currently leading young firepissers in combat in Fallujah. He sent this to her a couple of days ago. He and his men will be spending Thanksgiving and most likely Christmas and Hannukkah chasing down and killing terrorists. The letter home was penned by a young enlisted Marine. My colleague's Marine thought enough of it to send it home to all of us.

From: XXXXX, Maj Jeffery G [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 5:43 AM

Subject: For the record:

****************************
This is one story of many that people normally don't hear, and one that everyone does. This is just one most don't hear:

A young Marine and his cover man cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with Ak-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain.

The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister, mister! Diktoor, Diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded, lying in a pool of his own blood.

The Marine and his cover man slowly walk toward the injured man, scanning to make sure no enemies come from behind. In a split second, the pressure in the room greatly exceeds that of the outside, and the concussion seems to be felt before the blast is heard. Marines outside rush to the room, and look in horror as the dust gradually settles. The result is a room filled with the barely recognizable remains of the deceased, caused by an insurgent setting off several pounds of explosives. The Marines' remains are gathered by teary eyed comrades, brothers in arms, and shipped home in a box. The families can only mourn over a casket and a picture of their loved one, a life cut short by someone who hid behind a white flag. But no one hears these stories, except those who have lived to carry remains of a friend, and the families who loved the dead. No one hears this, so no one cares.

This is the story everyone hears: A young Marine and his fire team cautiously enter a room just recently filled with insurgents armed with AK-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister, mister! Diktoor, diktoor (doctor)!" He is badly wounded. Suddenly, he pulls from under his bloody clothes a grenade, without the pin. The explosion rocks the room, killing one Marine, wounding the others. The young Marine catches shrapnel in the face. The next day, same Marine, same type of situation, a different story. The young Marine and his cover man enter a room with two wounded insurgents. One lies on the floor in puddle of blood, another against the wall. A reporter and his camera survey the wreckage inside, and in the background can be heard the voice of a Marine, "He's moving, he's moving!" The pop of a rifle is heard, and the insurgent against the wall is now dead. Minutes, hours later, the scene is aired on national television, and the Marine is being held for committing a war crime. Unlawful killing. And now, another Marine has the possibility of being burned at the stake for protecting the life of his brethren. His family now wrings their hands in grief, tears streaming down their face.

Brother, should I have been in your boots, I too would have done the same. For those of you who don't know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong. We are here for the man to our left, and the man to our right. We choose to give our lives so that the man or woman next to us can go home and see their husbands, wives, children, friends and families. For those of you who sit on your couches in front of your television, and choose to condemn this man's actions, I have but one thing to say to you. Get out of you recliner, lace up your boots, pick up a rifle, leave your family behind and join me. See what I've seen, walk where I have walked. To those of you who support us, my sincerest gratitude. You keep us alive. I am a Marine currently doing his second tour in Iraq. These are my opinions and mine alone. They do not represent those of the Marine Corps or of the US military, or any other.

Sincerely,
> >
> > LCPL Schmidt, USMC

Posted: 11/22/2004 8:50:26 AM EDT

[#1]

chillbumps.

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:10:55 AM EDT

[#2]

Fuh Kin Aye.

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:13:02 AM EDT

[#3]

Thanks for posting that. Anyone know the Marine's name? My prayers go out for him.

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:16:09 AM EDT

[#4]

Smitty,

Stay safe, and thanks for your service.

The press has been the enemie's "sixth man" since the late sixties.

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:16:22 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
chillbumps.

+1

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:20:40 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Fuh Kin Aye.

+1

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:21:40 AM EDT

[#7]

+1

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:22:10 AM EDT

[#8]

Love the sigline. ROFL

TRG

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:22:50 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
For those of you who don't know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong.

How Unfortunate...

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:24:57 AM EDT

[#10]

For the killed and injured marines.

I've lost a guy I went to middle school with and I have my best childhood friend there now.

-Foxxz

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:25:27 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
For those of you who don't know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong.

How Unfortunate...

How unfortunate for you to not understand it.

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:32:13 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
For those of you who don't know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong.

How Unfortunate...

...that you fail to grasp the concept of Band of Brothers.

Posted: 11/22/2004 9:46:43 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
How Unfortunate...

Did you desert, or throw down your rifle and sit on your ass when given an order with which you might have disagreed? No?

How hypocritical...

Posted: 11/23/2004 6:44:58 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
How Unfortunate...

Did you desert, or throw down your rifle and sit on your ass when given an order with which you might have disagreed? No?

How hypocritical...

Allow me to point out what happens when our troops "do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

Ever hear of the Americal division???

Lt. William Cally???

From his defense, on MURDER charges...........

Two tragedies took place in 1968 in Viet Nam. One was the massacre by United States soldiers of as many as 500 unarmed civilians-- old men, women, children-- in My Lai on the morning of March 16. The other was the cover-up of that massacre.

U. S. military officials suspected Quang Ngai Province, more than any other province in South Viet Nam, as being a Viet Cong stronghold. The U. S. targeted the province for the first major U.S. combat operation of the war. Military officials declared the province a "free-fire zone" and subjected it to frequent bombing missions and artillery attacks. By the end of 1967, most of the dwellings in the province had been destroyed and nearly 140,000 civilians left homeless. Not surprisingly, the native population of Quang Ngai Province distrusted Americans. Children hissed at soldiers. Adults kept quiet.

Two hours of instruction on the rights of prisoners and a wallet-sized card "The Enemy is in Your Hands" seemed to have little impact on American soldiers fighting in Quang Ngai. Military leaders encouraged and rewarded kills in an effort to produce impressive body counts that could be reported to Saigon as an indication of progress. GIs joked that "anything that's dead and isn't white is a VC" for body count purposes. Angered by a local population that said nothing about the VC's whereabouts, soldiers took to calling natives "gooks."

Charlie Company came to Viet Nam in December, 1967. It located in Quang Ngai Province in January, 1968, as one of the three companies in Task Force Barker, an ad hoc unit headed by Lt. Col. Frank Barker, Jr. Its mission was to pressure the VC in an area of the province known as "Pinkville." Charlie Company's commanding officer was Ernest Medina, a thirty-three-year-old Mexican-American from New Mexico who was popular with his soldiers. One of his platoon leaders was twenty-four-year-old William Calley. Charlie Company soldiers expressed amazement that Calley was thought by anyone to be officer material. One described Calley as"a kid trying to play war." [LINK TO CHAIN OF COMMAND DIAGRAM] Calley's utter lack of respect for the indigenous population was apparent to all in the company. According to one soldier, "if they wanted to do something wrong, it was alright with Calley." The soldiers of Charlie Company, like most combat soldiers in Viet Nam, scored low on military exams. Few combat soldiers had education beyond high school.

Seymour Hersh wrote that by March of 1968 "many in the company had given in to an easy pattern of violence." Soldiers systematically beat unarmed civilians. Some civilians were murdered. Whole villages were burned. Wells were poisoned. Rapes were common.

On March 14, a small squad from "C" Company ran into a booby trap, killing a popular sergeant, blinding one GI and wounding several others. The following evening, when a funeral service was held for the killed sergeant, soldiers had revenge on their mind. After the service, Captain Medina rose to give the soldiers a pep talk and discuss the next morning's mission. Medina told them that the VC's crack 48th Battalion was in the vicinity of a hamlet known as My Lai 4, which would be the target of a large-scale assault by the company. The soldiers' mission would be to engage the 48th Battalion and to destroy the village of My Lai. By 7 A.M., Medina said, the women and children would be out of the hamlet and all they could expect to encounter would be the enemy. The soldiers were to explode brick homes, set fire to thatch homes, shoot livestock, poison wells, and destroy the enemy. The seventy-five or so American soldiers would be supported in their assault by gunship pilots.

Medina later said that his objective that night was to "fire them up and get them ready to go in there; I did not give any instructions as to what to do with women and children in the village." Although some soldiers agreed with that recollection of Medina's, others clearly thought that he had ordered them to kill every person in My Lai 4. Perhaps his orders were intentionally vague. What seems likely is that Medina intentionally gave the impression that everyone in My Lai would be their enemy.......................................

By 8 A.M., Calley's platoon had crossed the plaza on the town's southern edge and entered the village. They encountered families cooking rice in front of their homes. The men began their usual search-and-destroy task of pulling people from homes, interrogating them, and searching for VC. Soon the killing began. The first victim was a man stabbed in the back with a bayonet. Then a middle-aged man was picked up, thrown down a well, and a grenade lobbed in after him. A group of fifteen to twenty mostly older women were gathered around a temple, kneeling and praying. They were all executed with shots to the back of their heads. Eighty or so villagers were taken from their homes and herded to the plaza area. As many cried "No VC! No VC!", Calley told soldier Paul Meadlo, "You know what I want you to do with them". When Calley returned ten minutes later and found the Vietnamese still gathered in the plaza he reportedly said to Meadlo, "Haven't you got rid of them yet? I want them dead. Waste them." Meadlo and Calley began firing into the group from a distance of ten to fifteen feet. The few that survived did so because they were covered by the bodies of those less fortunate.

As illustrated above, the "kill 'em all" mentality has been around for a while. Trigger pullers must remember their mission. All the soldiers at My Lai had been briefed/given, MACV cards, telling them what to do, and how to treat peasants and prisoners.......

I suppose you and others here, would just go with the crowd???

SOME soldiers there DID refuse to participate in the killing. Were they wrong??

NO.

Do you guys have ANY idea what happens to the overall mission, (winning "hearts and minds"), when US soldiers "do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"????????????

I'll tell ya.... it goes to hell in a hand basket, and COSTS MORE American LIVES!!!

Posted: 11/23/2004 6:53:58 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How Unfortunate...

Did you desert, or throw down your rifle and sit on your ass when given an order with which you might have disagreed? No?

How hypocritical...

Allow me to point out what happens when our troops "do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

Ever hear of the Americal division???

Lt. William Cally???

From his defense, on MURDER charges...........

Two tragedies took place in 1968 in Viet Nam. One was the massacre by United States soldiers of as many as 500 unarmed civilians-- old men, women, children-- in My Lai on the morning of March 16. The other was the cover-up of that massacre.

U. S. military officials suspected Quang Ngai Province, more than any other province in South Viet Nam, as being a Viet Cong stronghold. The U. S. targeted the province for the first major U.S. combat operation of the war. Military officials declared the province a "free-fire zone" and subjected it to frequent bombing missions and artillery attacks. By the end of 1967, most of the dwellings in the province had been destroyed and nearly 140,000 civilians left homeless. Not surprisingly, the native population of Quang Ngai Province distrusted Americans. Children hissed at soldiers. Adults kept quiet.

Two hours of instruction on the rights of prisoners and a wallet-sized card "The Enemy is in Your Hands" seemed to have little impact on American soldiers fighting in Quang Ngai. Military leaders encouraged and rewarded kills in an effort to produce impressive body counts that could be reported to Saigon as an indication of progress. GIs joked that "anything that's dead and isn't white is a VC" for body count purposes. Angered by a local population that said nothing about the VC's whereabouts, soldiers took to calling natives "gooks."

Charlie Company came to Viet Nam in December, 1967. It located in Quang Ngai Province in January, 1968, as one of the three companies in Task Force Barker, an ad hoc unit headed by Lt. Col. Frank Barker, Jr. Its mission was to pressure the VC in an area of the province known as "Pinkville." Charlie Company's commanding officer was Ernest Medina, a thirty-three-year-old Mexican-American from New Mexico who was popular with his soldiers. One of his platoon leaders was twenty-four-year-old William Calley. Charlie Company soldiers expressed amazement that Calley was thought by anyone to be officer material. One described Calley as"a kid trying to play war." [LINK TO CHAIN OF COMMAND DIAGRAM] Calley's utter lack of respect for the indigenous population was apparent to all in the company. According to one soldier, "if they wanted to do something wrong, it was alright with Calley." The soldiers of Charlie Company, like most combat soldiers in Viet Nam, scored low on military exams. Few combat soldiers had education beyond high school.

Seymour Hersh wrote that by March of 1968 "many in the company had given in to an easy pattern of violence." Soldiers systematically beat unarmed civilians. Some civilians were murdered. Whole villages were burned. Wells were poisoned. Rapes were common.

On March 14, a small squad from "C" Company ran into a booby trap, killing a popular sergeant, blinding one GI and wounding several others. The following evening, when a funeral service was held for the killed sergeant, soldiers had revenge on their mind. After the service, Captain Medina rose to give the soldiers a pep talk and discuss the next morning's mission. Medina told them that the VC's crack 48th Battalion was in the vicinity of a hamlet known as My Lai 4, which would be the target of a large-scale assault by the company. The soldiers' mission would be to engage the 48th Battalion and to destroy the village of My Lai. By 7 A.M., Medina said, the women and children would be out of the hamlet and all they could expect to encounter would be the enemy. The soldiers were to explode brick homes, set fire to thatch homes, shoot livestock, poison wells, and destroy the enemy. The seventy-five or so American soldiers would be supported in their assault by gunship pilots.

Medina later said that his objective that night was to "fire them up and get them ready to go in there; I did not give any instructions as to what to do with women and children in the village." Although some soldiers agreed with that recollection of Medina's, others clearly thought that he had ordered them to kill every person in My Lai 4. Perhaps his orders were intentionally vague. What seems likely is that Medina intentionally gave the impression that everyone in My Lai would be their enemy.......................................

By 8 A.M., Calley's platoon had crossed the plaza on the town's southern edge and entered the village. They encountered families cooking rice in front of their homes. The men began their usual search-and-destroy task of pulling people from homes, interrogating them, and searching for VC. Soon the killing began. The first victim was a man stabbed in the back with a bayonet. Then a middle-aged man was picked up, thrown down a well, and a grenade lobbed in after him. A group of fifteen to twenty mostly older women were gathered around a temple, kneeling and praying. They were all executed with shots to the back of their heads. Eighty or so villagers were taken from their homes and herded to the plaza area. As many cried "No VC! No VC!", Calley told soldier Paul Meadlo, "You know what I want you to do with them". When Calley returned ten minutes later and found the Vietnamese still gathered in the plaza he reportedly said to Meadlo, "Haven't you got rid of them yet? I want them dead. Waste them." Meadlo and Calley began firing into the group from a distance of ten to fifteen feet. The few that survived did so because they were covered by the bodies of those less fortunate.

As illustrated above, the "kill 'em all" mentality has been around for a while. Trigger pullers must remember their mission. All the soldiers at My Lai had been briefed/given, MACV cards, telling them what to do, and how to treat peasants and prisoners.......

I suppose you and others here, would just go with the crowd???

SOME soldiers there DID refuse to participate in the killing. Were they wrong??

NO.

Do you guys have ANY idea what happens to the overall mission, (winning "hearts and minds"), when US soldiers "do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"????????????

I'll tell ya.... it goes to hell in a hand basket, and COSTS MORE American LIVES!!!

You're comparing this justified incident to My Lai?
Your brain is truly fried friend. Time to switch medications, don't you think?

Posted: 11/23/2004 6:56:29 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Allow me to point out what happens when our troops "do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

Ever hear of the Americal division???

Lt. William Cally???

Ever hear of hyperbole and non sequitur? You seem to use both a lot.

Posted: 11/23/2004 6:58:09 AM EDT

[#17]

bump to keep it at the top

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:06:33 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

You're comparing this justified incident to My Lai?
Your brain is truly fried friend. Time to switch medications, don't you think?

We are not talking about "incidents"... we are talking about MINDSET!!!

"we do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:07:31 AM EDT

[#19]

Radio was reading accounts of the Fallujah battle where 51 solders gave their all.

One account

"Marine patrol ran across an Iraqi patrol wearing the special red/white arm band indicating friendlies and waved, then the Iraqi patrol opened up killing one and wounding others."

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:10:53 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:

You're comparing this justified incident to My Lai?
Your brain is truly fried friend. Time to switch medications, don't you think?

We are not talking about "incidents"... we are talking about MINDSET!!!

Yes, we are...and the most troubling mindset seems to be yours.

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:19:22 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:

You're comparing this justified incident to My Lai?
Your brain is truly fried friend. Time to switch medications, don't you think?

We are not talking about "incidents"... we are talking about MINDSET!!!

"we do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

However you want to frame it, you made a comparison of My Lai and a justified shooting of a terrorist. All you're trying to do now is back out of it. You owe those fighting overseas who are on this board and all of us an apology in my opinion.

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:33:05 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

However you want to frame it, you made a comparison of My Lai and a justified shooting of a terrorist. All you're trying to do now is back out of it. You owe those fighting overseas who are on this board and all of us an apology in my opinion.

NO. He doesn't owe anybody an apology. He's referring to what can happen when Soldiers lose focus. When they lose sight of what their fighting for. And, as an example, he referenced the My Lai incident. Did he say the same thing happened in Iraq? No. Did he specifically disagree with what that Marine did to the wounded insurgent and, as such, compare it to the My Lai incident? No..I happen to agree with both his assessment and his analogy.

Besides, Liberty86, unlike quite a few armchair commandos on this site, has earned the right to his opinion. He earned it the hard way....

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:34:38 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:

However you want to frame it, you made a comparison of My Lai and a justified shooting of a terrorist. All you're trying to do now is back out of it. You owe those fighting overseas who are on this board and all of us an apology in my opinion.

NO. He doesn't owe anybody an apology.

Yes, actually he owes quite a few people an apology. But he will never give it, as apologizing involves the ability to admit it when you screwed up.

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:34:52 AM EDT

[#24]

I've said it before and I'll say it again....

SCREW THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA!!!!

With their anti-American, anti-military fascist lies and distortions.

God speed the USMC, United States Army, and all our servicemen in harms way...

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:37:52 AM EDT

[#25]

eta: nm, I dun wanna step in this

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:41:47 AM EDT

[#26]

SEMPER FI

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:43:34 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:

You're comparing this justified incident to My Lai?
Your brain is truly fried friend. Time to switch medications, don't you think?

We are not talking about "incidents"... we are talking about MINDSET!!!

"we do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

The more I read from these "libertarian" posts, the more I am determined never to become one.

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:45:49 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

You're comparing this justified incident to My Lai?
Your brain is truly fried friend. Time to switch medications, don't you think?

We are not talking about "incidents"... we are talking about MINDSET!!!

"we do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

The more I read from these "libertarian" posts, the more I am determined never to become one.

These guys aren't old-school libertarians. They're the new breed of anarcho-libertarians. Good thing no one takes them seriously.

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:47:26 AM EDT

[#29]

WOW

Posted: 11/23/2004 7:57:35 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:

However you want to frame it, you made a comparison of My Lai and a justified shooting of a terrorist. All you're trying to do now is back out of it. You owe those fighting overseas who are on this board and all of us an apology in my opinion.

NO. He doesn't owe anybody an apology. He's referring to what can happen when Soldiers lose focus. When they lose sight of what their fighting for. And, as an example, he referenced the My Lai incident. Did he say the same thing happened in Iraq? No. Did he specifically disagree with what that Marine did to the wounded insurgent and, as such, compare it to the My Lai incident? No..I happen to agree with both his assessment and his analogy.

Besides, Liberty86, unlike quite a few armchair commandos on this site, has earned the right to his opinion. He earned it the hard way....

+1 .... Amen.... Right On!!!!!!

Posted: 11/23/2004 8:31:38 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:

However you want to frame it, you made a comparison of My Lai and a justified shooting of a terrorist. All you're trying to do now is back out of it. You owe those fighting overseas who are on this board and all of us an apology in my opinion.

NO. He doesn't owe anybody an apology. He's referring to what can happen when Soldiers lose focus. When they lose sight of what their fighting for. And, as an example, he referenced the My Lai incident. Did he say the same thing happened in Iraq? No. Did he specifically disagree with what that Marine did to the wounded insurgent and, as such, compare it to the My Lai incident? No..I happen to agree with both his assessment and his analogy.

Besides, Liberty86, unlike quite a few armchair commandos on this site, has earned the right to his opinion. He earned it the hard way....

My thanks, Chris.... some on the site are afraid to speak up, I believe. We seem to have our own "Political Correctness", or "Groupthink" amongst us.

You correctly interpret, (reading comprehension....

), my words.

My thoughts on this incident, can be found Here.

I'll quote my summation.....

Quoted:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted:

They had ALREADY surrendered, and had been deemed no threat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WRONG answer, (edited by EdSr) - that POS terrorist was playing dead - and had NOT surrendered... Our guy did the right thing - he probably saved himself and his fellow soldiers from another one of those "playing possum" attacks.... Too bad he didn't shoot the scumbag media whores, 1st....

- georgestrings

Dumbass???

Those guys were left in the Mosque the day before to be picked up by intel/medics. When they got there, there were other marines there who said they had just cleared th place, and that THEY had shot a couple of the wounded.

Maybe we should let the JAG complete the investigation, before handing out the "Dumbass" awards...

Do ya think?????

Pertinent quote in blue.....

Seems a lot of guys here don't think we have anything to learn from history.

Yer in for a shock..........

Posted: 11/23/2004 8:38:08 AM EDT

[#32]

I just love the way some of you armchair commandos are so quick to criticize the grunts in the field. Your clearly impeccable warfighting skills and perfect fog-of-war judgement are simply amazing to behold.

I'd love to see some of you in action...NOT!

Posted: 11/23/2004 8:40:01 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I just love the way some of you armchair commandos are so quick to criticize the grunts in the field. Your clearly impeccable warfighting skills and perfect fog-of-war judgement are simply amazing to behold.

I'd love to see some of you in action...NOT!

If you're referring to me, boy are you off the mark!!!!

Posted: 11/23/2004 8:46:06 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I just love the way some of you armchair commandos are so quick to criticize the grunts in the field. Your clearly impeccable warfighting skills and perfect fog-of-war judgement are simply amazing to behold.

I'd love to see some of you in action...NOT!

If you're referring to me, boy are you off the mark!!!!

I will not name names and start a stupid flame war. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, take no offense because none is intended for the innocent.

For any among us on whom the shoe is now fitting tightly...go look in the mirror. You have a lot of damn gall criticizing a grunt in the field from the safety and comfort of your computer chair.

Shame on you.

Posted: 11/23/2004 9:00:38 AM EDT

[#35]

Just for the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Libertarian....

I am a Constitutionalist.

And, my shoes fit fine..........

Posted: 11/23/2004 9:04:37 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just love the way some of you armchair commandos are so quick to criticize the grunts in the field. Your clearly impeccable warfighting skills and perfect fog-of-war judgement are simply amazing to behold.

I'd love to see some of you in action...NOT!

If you're referring to me, boy are you off the mark!!!!

I will not name names and start a stupid flame war. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, take no offense because none is intended for the innocent.

.

LWilde

Believe me I am not looking to start a flame war. Nor have I ever criticized that Marine for his actions. How could I? I was not there. It would be hypocritical of me to decide whether he made the correct choice from the comfort of my house. But, by the same token, I'm not the type to +1, HooYah, and blatantly scream "Git Some" merely because the mob mentally on this board dictates it....As for my previous comments on this threat, none of them were directed at that Marine. I was merely agreeing with Liberty86's assessment on what potentially may happen when Marines and Soldiers lose sight of what they're fighting for.....Nothing more. Nothing less.

For any among us on whom the shoe is now fitting tightly...go look in the mirror. You have a lot of damn gall criticizing a grunt in the field from the safety and comfort of your computer chair.

Shame on you

Also, I find your "If you weren't there fighting you have no right to say anything" comment without basis. I fought in OIF1 and OIFII. Does that make my opinion any more valuable than that of those who did not serve? I think not....In actuality, unless one were standing directly next to that Marine when he shot the insurgent, we all fit that above statement....

Safe tour....

Posted: 11/23/2004 9:34:00 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Just for the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Libertarian....

I am a Constitutionalist.

And, my shoes fit fine..........

In your mouth?

Posted: 11/23/2004 10:10:49 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Just for the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Libertarian....

I am a Constitutionalist.

And, my shoes fit fine..........

In your mouth?

Trolling must be kinda slow, today, eh rik??

You just can't seem to control it, can ya????

Posted: 11/23/2004 10:20:06 AM EDT

[#39]

hooahh

Posted: 11/23/2004 10:23:59 AM EDT

[#40]

God bless our fighting men and go before them to clear the path. Give them wisdom.

Posted: 11/23/2004 10:26:38 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
God bless our fighting men and go before them to clear the path. Give them wisdom.

He did - with daisy cutters.

Some people just lack the ....intestinal fortitude.....to use God's gifts.

Posted: 11/23/2004 10:27:54 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just for the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Libertarian....

I am a Constitutionalist.

And, my shoes fit fine..........

In your mouth?

Trolling must be kinda slow, today, eh rik??

Apparently not...you seem to find time for it every day.

Posted: 11/23/2004 2:36:58 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Just for the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Libertarian....

I am a Constitutionalist.

And, my shoes fit fine..........

In your mouth?

Rik- I have noticed that whenever Liberty86 gets involved in a thread you show up and usually post stuff unrelated to the thread but attacking Liberty for his positions while ignoring the topic of the thread. Are you cyberstalking Liberty86 ?

Posted: 11/23/2004 2:51:33 PM EDT

[#44]

+1, HooYah, and blatantly screaming "Git Some"

Semper Fi Marines, KILL ALL THE FUCKERS!

Posted: 11/23/2004 2:54:02 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
+1, HooYah, and blatantly screaming "Git Some"

Lemming!!!

............

Posted: 11/23/2004 3:13:27 PM EDT

[#46]

If I were in his shoes, I probably would've done the same thing.

As far as the "right or wrong" statement goes, what he means is that when it comes down to the reality of combat, politics and flowery platitudes don't matter...what matters is staying alive, and helping your buddies stay alive.

UNIT
CORPS
GOD
COUNTRY

Posted: 11/23/2004 3:23:32 PM EDT

[#47]

why cant anyone send this to the freaking media???? or have they turned completely against our own troops.

god bless our troops and their families.

and i would have done just the same but i would have gone in shooting and asking questions later.

murder! my arse!! it's called self defense and protecting the lives of your fellow marines.
it really outrages me that, this can happen.
i beleive there is a petition you can sign posted in support of that fine marine. please take time to sign and submit.

meat

Posted: 11/23/2004 3:30:19 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
We are not talking about "incidents"... we are talking about MINDSET!!!

"we do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

Has the same meaning as this quote from BHD:

When I get home people 'll ask me, "Hey Hoot, why do ya do it man? Why? Just some war junkie?" Ya know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand that it's about the men next to you, and that's it. That's all it is.

Posted: 11/23/2004 5:18:24 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just for the record, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Libertarian....

I am a Constitutionalist.

And, my shoes fit fine..........

In your mouth?

Rik- I have noticed that whenever Liberty86 gets involved in a thread you show up and usually post stuff unrelated to the thread but attacking Liberty for his positions while ignoring the topic of the thread. Are you cyberstalking Liberty86 ?

Nope, and this is related to the thread. Duncan has shown a propensity over the last two years or so of assuming the worst about American troops and their leadership, our intelligence agencies and American civilian contractors. This latest attack by him on the motives of Marines in combat is just another example of the same sort of mindset that led him to call the Blackwater contractors who were murdered in Fallujah "Hessians."
Duncan doesn't trust the American government to do the right thing when it comes to waging war. He bases this on his experience in Vietnam and refuses to understand or admit that the two wars are very different and the current administration and military brass are very different as well.
That's why he brings up a totally non sequitur reference to LT Cally, making the ridiculous comparison of his actions in Vietnam to the Marine shooting the Iraqi terrorist in Fallujah.
Think of me not as a cyberstalker, but as a gadfly, trying to counter Duncan's warped image of things with a dose of reality.

Posted: 11/23/2004 5:19:40 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
We are not talking about "incidents"... we are talking about MINDSET!!!

"we do not fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong"

Has the same meaning as this quote from BHD:

When I get home people 'll ask me, "Hey Hoot, why do ya do it man? Why? Just some war junkie?" Ya know what I'll say? I won't say a goddamn word. Why? They won't understand. They won't understand why we do it. They won't understand that it's about the men next to you, and that's it. That's all it is.

Goes back way further than that.

This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - A Mesage From Fallujah... (Page 1 of 2)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - A Mesage From Fallujah... (Page 1 of 2)