AI in the trades. Older people don’t understand (Page 2 of 7)
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Originally Posted By dukeofearl: Your job is next. What does it need you for? Go learn to code with your former employees. There was a Twilight Zone episode on this subject that aired in 1964. "The Brain Center At Whipples." The owner automated everything and ruthlessly/gleefully told his employees to get bent. One worker was shot and killed by the security guard when he violently refused to leave. Next thing you know, a robot kicked the owner out and the guy ended up at a bar sitting next to someone he had fired, fishing for sympathy. |
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Originally Posted By Torf: Train a different AI to review the project plans? Originally Posted By Torf: Originally Posted By MFP_4073: make sure you fully review the AI deliverable. lots of examples out there of 'AI slop' embedded in the product that isn't discovered until later close examination. Insert vid of guy asking three different ai instances to talk to each other and work together to count to 100 
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Originally Posted By IceChimp: AI creates nowhere near the jobs it removes, the entire selling point for companies is removing the human factor from practically all aspects of business. As can be seen by the OP even the trades are heavily impacted, which many wanted to claim would weather the AI storm unlike other industries. Unlike other technical and industrial revolutions in the past which closed doors to certain jobs and opened others AI is nearing the end state where all it does is close doors and restrict job availability, which will continue to accelerate as robotics becomes more viable to replace the remaining physical jobs. I don't have a solution for this problem, just stating that it is there and it is real. Originally Posted By IceChimp: Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. AI creates nowhere near the jobs it removes, the entire selling point for companies is removing the human factor from practically all aspects of business. As can be seen by the OP even the trades are heavily impacted, which many wanted to claim would weather the AI storm unlike other industries. Unlike other technical and industrial revolutions in the past which closed doors to certain jobs and opened others AI is nearing the end state where all it does is close doors and restrict job availability, which will continue to accelerate as robotics becomes more viable to replace the remaining physical jobs. I don't have a solution for this problem, just stating that it is there and it is real. Did you read the OP? What you are describing is the opposite of what he said. And nothing in job or wage reports supports your argument. Employment is holding steady, well below historical norms, and wages are rising. |
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Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity:AI might eliminate some jobs, but it creates others. So, AI doesn't necessarily mean doom. Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. |
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Originally Posted By Stlrain0341: It's transformative for any small business. A lot of people really don't understand how effective it can be. And like the OP pointed out, it's not eliminating jobs, it's moving the work from non value added work to value added work. Reducing administration is a good thing. |
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Originally Posted By MFP_4073: make sure you fully review the AI deliverable. lots of examples out there of 'AI slop' embedded in the product that isn't discovered until later close examination. Most of that is people using the free version and using the fast AI. The higher end version running through it in slow mode is incredibly accurate. Sometimes it’ll have a formatting issue but it produces and excel spreadsheet with all the formulas it used. |
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Originally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Fewer or lower paying jobs. The economic appeal of AI is to make things cheaper, and employing more people is the opposite of cheap. Originally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. The savings on staff will be offset somewhat by the disenfranchised voting in the dems, who will wield massive business tax hikes. |
When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.
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Originally Posted By sprtpilot: The mistakes it will make will hurt you, hard. And it won't care or refrain from making the same and new mistakes the next time. I don’t know if you have many employees, but they cost me more money than I care to know and they show no remorse. They’ll ruin a machine and then walk off the jobsite like nothing happened. |
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Originally Posted By IceChimp: AI creates nowhere near the jobs it removes, the entire selling point for companies is removing the human factor from practically all aspects of business. As can be seen by the OP even the trades are heavily impacted, which many wanted to claim would weather the AI storm unlike other industries. Unlike other technical and industrial revolutions in the past which closed doors to certain jobs and opened others AI is nearing the end state where all it does is close doors and restrict job availability, which will continue to accelerate as robotics becomes more viable to replace the remaining physical jobs. I don't have a solution for this problem, just stating that it is there and it is real. Originally Posted By IceChimp: Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. AI creates nowhere near the jobs it removes, the entire selling point for companies is removing the human factor from practically all aspects of business. As can be seen by the OP even the trades are heavily impacted, which many wanted to claim would weather the AI storm unlike other industries. Unlike other technical and industrial revolutions in the past which closed doors to certain jobs and opened others AI is nearing the end state where all it does is close doors and restrict job availability, which will continue to accelerate as robotics becomes more viable to replace the remaining physical jobs. I don't have a solution for this problem, just stating that it is there and it is real. |
"This is a free country, and I have the permits, background checks, licenses, and tax receipts to prove it." --Zippster (4/10/13)
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Originally Posted By opnblstr: AI can already answer phones and carry on a conversation. How long until AI replaces OP? No one is above AI replacement at this point and as soon as AI realizes the planet no longer needs humans on it we won't need those roads either. After using it how I do, I don’t doubt it. I’m hopeful we’re headed for a Star Trek future where money doesn’t exist and people like me work because I want to, not because I have to. |
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Relevant to my interests. I’m probably much smaller than the OPs business but I’ve thought about teying to use AI to grow my business, on the marketing side, plus take some of my office workload off. Problem is I’m not all that good with AI aside from very basic use. |
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Originally Posted By Bigdawg90: I don’t know if you have many employees, but they cost me more money than I care to know and they show no remorse. They’ll ruin a machine and then walk off the jobsite like nothing happened. This AI is a tool, just like the equipment we use, and the money we make and use. It’s a force multiplier when used well, and does still need people checking on the output. Then again, my people still need other people checking on them, and in some cases, we still get that wrong |
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Originally Posted By Stlrain0341: Did you read the OP? What you are describing is the opposite of what he said. And nothing in job or wage reports supports your argument. Employment is holding steady, well below historical norms, and wages are rising. Originally Posted By Stlrain0341: Originally Posted By IceChimp: Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. AI creates nowhere near the jobs it removes, the entire selling point for companies is removing the human factor from practically all aspects of business. As can be seen by the OP even the trades are heavily impacted, which many wanted to claim would weather the AI storm unlike other industries. Unlike other technical and industrial revolutions in the past which closed doors to certain jobs and opened others AI is nearing the end state where all it does is close doors and restrict job availability, which will continue to accelerate as robotics becomes more viable to replace the remaining physical jobs. I don't have a solution for this problem, just stating that it is there and it is real. Did you read the OP? What you are describing is the opposite of what he said. And nothing in job or wage reports supports your argument. Employment is holding steady, well below historical norms, and wages are rising. Yeah, I read it, he fired a bunch of people and hired some more to do work which is fine for now, those jobs will be replaced by AI in the future as robotics improves. Further, gaining efficiencies is a temporary boost, there is only so much work to do - every company that wants to survive will adopt AI to gain the same efficiencies or go out of business, those jobs will ultimately be filled from the increasing pool of the jobless from the defunct companies. Let me ask you why you think something designed to replace humans will somehow ultimately create jobs for humans? |
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Originally Posted By BB: Theres absolutely no way I'd offload legal to an AI; not without seriously close supervision from someone that knows the law. We use our lawyer to verify the legal contracts, but it cuts the billable from 20 hours to 4-5. It doesn’t sound like much but that might mean I make 18% instead of 12% on a job |
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Originally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Fewer or lower paying jobs. The economic appeal of AI is to make things cheaper, and employing more people is the opposite of cheap unless the wages tank appropriately. Originally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. AI holds the promise of increased production. So the two useless ditch diggers are out of a job, and no one has to pay their ridiculous wage. |
"This is a free country, and I have the permits, background checks, licenses, and tax receipts to prove it." --Zippster (4/10/13)
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Originally Posted By RouxGaRoux: Doc, are you telling me people that sit in an office and send and read emails all day never had a real job? Originally Posted By RouxGaRoux: Originally Posted By Stlrain0341: It's transformative for any small business. A lot of people really don't understand how effective it can be. And like the OP pointed out, it's not eliminating jobs, it's moving the work from non value added work to value added work. Reducing administration is a good thing.  I have people Skills Office Space |
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Originally Posted By burnka871: All fun and games until it messes up an estimate and you take a 100k bath. Happened much more often with human estimators. It took forever to get my last project manager to accurately do dirt takeoffs. If you’re off 1000 CY of fill, you’re out $30k. It was brutal. |
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It'll be real fun when it finally screws you. I got screwed by an AI after months of working with it on a computer project which was intricately planned and in which it had the opportunity to course correct at least 10 times over. In the end, it conflated documentation for the stable and developer branches of a piece of software and lead me down the path right until the bitter end when a core tenant of the project finally didn't work and it said "oppsie! i messed up! this won't work!". Literally months of work down the drain. And that was with intense planning, clarification of goals, technical requirements, and so on. It provided me with links to supporting documentation to prove interoperability. Too bad those documents were for software that didn't exist yet or for which there was only partial support for what I was trying to accomplish. |
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Originally Posted By efxguy: Well, it kinda does. It certainly could mean hard times for those five office workers if any of them are over 55 years old. But who knows, maybe that office manager can learn to run a dozer? Originally Posted By efxguy: Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. But who knows, maybe that office manager can learn to run a dozer? You have a point about companies not wanting to hire and train over-55 workers. |
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Originally Posted By 0311SKI: Seems like alot of faith to be that reliant on it. But I hope it works out for ya. Im happy just to pull up in my truck, do some work, get paid and go home. No dreams of maximizing efficiency for a few extra bucks or expanding operations. I like simple. 100%. My favorite thing to do is framing. I want to get back to it. My dream is to just run a crew again full-time. No 50 phone calls, 20 bids and 100 other things. Just wake up, put on my boots and get to the jobsite. I love the work, hate the office. |
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Originally Posted By glock27bill: That was my thought. All it takes is one or two contractors to start the race to the bottom. The illegals did that a long time ago. I think the race to the bottom is just market forces. AI is just another form of cheap labor. It’ll either make things better or far, far worse. |
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A lot of younger people are totally clueless about construction as well that's why theres tons of chain emails with 30 people afraid to make a decision. Let AI make the decision where to dig after 411 marks are stated as "no conflicts". AI also doesn't always catch where walls are joined on plan sheets and that can throw your bid off. AI will look at a plan and give you a number sure a trained estimator will include the need for swing stages, lane closures, special equipment needed to perform the task. Cool win those bids by coming in cheaper and when you job cost see the money lost from not capturing money before you enter into a signed contract. I am cool with AI replacing all the unnecessary people in construction though, they are the ones with clean hats, vests and boots that look new. |
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Ohio's Disciplinary Counsel is seeing a huge surge of misconduct cases related to the use of AI, mostly because of case hallucinations by the AI agent. AI will be a great tool for lawyers, but it won't be a substitute for lawyers. |
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER
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Originally Posted By EncoreGolf: vague statements like that irk me. How? What can it do for my golf shop? Originally Posted By EncoreGolf: Originally Posted By Stlrain0341: It's transformative for any small business. A lot of people really don't understand how effective it can be. vague statements like that irk me. How? What can it do for my golf shop? |
"This is a free country, and I have the permits, background checks, licenses, and tax receipts to prove it." --Zippster (4/10/13)
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Originally Posted By IceChimp: AI creates nowhere near the jobs it removes, the entire selling point for companies is removing the human factor from practically all aspects of business. As can be seen by the OP even the trades are heavily impacted, which many wanted to claim would weather the AI storm unlike other industries. Unlike other technical and industrial revolutions in the past which closed doors to certain jobs and opened others AI is nearing the end state where all it does is close doors and restrict job availability, which will continue to accelerate as robotics becomes more viable to replace the remaining physical jobs. I don't have a solution for this problem, just stating that it is there and it is real. The solution is something no one wants to recognize. I grew up on Star Trek. I’m hoping for that future. A place where I work because I want to produce something beautiful. Not because I have to feed my children. |
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Originally Posted By opnblstr: AI can already answer phones and carry on a conversation. How long until AI replaces OP? No one is above AI replacement at this point and as soon as AI realizes the planet no longer needs humans on it we won't need those roads either. QFT |
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Originally Posted By IceChimp: Yeah, I read it, he fired a bunch of people and hired some more to do work which is fine for now, those jobs will be replaced by AI in the future as robotics improves. Further, gaining efficiencies is a temporary boost, there is only so much work to do - every company that wants to survive will adopt AI to gain the same efficiencies or go out of business, those jobs will ultimately be filled from the increasing pool of the jobless from the defunct companies. Let me ask you why you think something designed to replace humans will somehow ultimately create jobs for humans? Originally Posted By IceChimp: Originally Posted By Stlrain0341: Originally Posted By IceChimp: Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. AI creates nowhere near the jobs it removes, the entire selling point for companies is removing the human factor from practically all aspects of business. As can be seen by the OP even the trades are heavily impacted, which many wanted to claim would weather the AI storm unlike other industries. Unlike other technical and industrial revolutions in the past which closed doors to certain jobs and opened others AI is nearing the end state where all it does is close doors and restrict job availability, which will continue to accelerate as robotics becomes more viable to replace the remaining physical jobs. I don't have a solution for this problem, just stating that it is there and it is real. Did you read the OP? What you are describing is the opposite of what he said. And nothing in job or wage reports supports your argument. Employment is holding steady, well below historical norms, and wages are rising. Yeah, I read it, he fired a bunch of people and hired some more to do work which is fine for now, those jobs will be replaced by AI in the future as robotics improves. Further, gaining efficiencies is a temporary boost, there is only so much work to do - every company that wants to survive will adopt AI to gain the same efficiencies or go out of business, those jobs will ultimately be filled from the increasing pool of the jobless from the defunct companies. Let me ask you why you think something designed to replace humans will somehow ultimately create jobs for humans? Of course. The problem with your entire argument is that you think there is “only so much work to do.” There isn’t. Increases in productivity results in increases in demand. If what you describe is true we should have 90% unemployment right now. Almost every job in this country used to be dedicated to food production. Now it’s less than 2%, because of automation. Work will shift, but human nature won’t. As soon as one thing becomes cheap, we will either want more of it, or something else entirely. The farmer 200 years ago couldn’t fathom our economy today, and I can’t fathom what our economy will look like 100 years from now, but I’m confident human instincts won’t change. |
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Originally Posted By scottzilla: until ai learns to write it's own code. Originally Posted By scottzilla: Originally Posted By SperlingPE: Learn to code until ai learns to write it's own code. 
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Once you realize that all power comes from the credible threat of the use of deadly force, and the gov't hates you, most things become easy to understand..
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Originally Posted By Bigdawg90: My wife and I started integrating AI into our construction business last year. We pay about $500/month for the high end professional level bundles. I don’t think people realize how transformative AI is for the trades. I eliminated our office manager, book keeper, social media marketing, quoter/estimator, and most of our lawyer billable. It’s saved me over $300k in overhead just this year. By the time I leave a quote, it’s already developed the bid for me with scope of work. Last night we received an invitation to bid on a large commercial site prep. By the time I woke up this morning it had prepared a $4 million bid with a perfect earthwork takeoff. I just woke up, reviewed it, made some basic changes to the formatting and sent it off. What used to take 40 hours of office work took it less than 4 hours and it did it while I slept and without input from me. I don’t doubt AI adoption is slow because people just don’t know how to use it for its higher level functions or they just refuse to use it because of the media. It took me about a week to train the agent on the commercial bidding process, but it’s probably saved me 3 months worth of work this year alone. I went from doing stupid menial tasks at the office to hiring 3 more guys and now run another crew myself. Everything from scheduling, to quoting to ordering supplies online is done through our AI agents. I didn’t just pocket the difference in profit. We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. I’m making more money than we’ve ever made. I don’t want AI to slow down. I want this thing to basically be able to run the entire business in a year. I’d love to just wake up and work with my hands. I hate office work. It’s so f***** boring. For all you old guys in the trades, say goodbye to the high paying project manager jobs. I’d suggest brushing up on dozer and excavator work. So fired working Americans to let a computer do your work for you. You and people like you are going to be the reason socialism succeeds in this country, but at least you’ll have enough money to go expat in Central America and laugh at all those people you put out of work. |
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Originally Posted By Torf:That's not true at all. Wealth is created by production, not work. You can pay two people to dig ditches and fill them back up, and you have employed two people, created nothing, and gotten someone to pay the bill. AI holds the promise of increased production. So the two useless ditch diggers are out of a job, and no one has to pay their ridiculous wage. Originally Posted By Torf: Originally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. AI holds the promise of increased production. So the two useless ditch diggers are out of a job, and no one has to pay their ridiculous wage. |
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Originally Posted By Bigdawg90: My wife and I started integrating AI into our construction business last year. We pay about $500/month for the high end professional level bundles. I don't think people realize how transformative AI is for the trades. I eliminated our office manager, book keeper, social media marketing, quoter/estimator, and most of our lawyer billable. It's saved me over $300k in overhead just this year. By the time I leave a quote, it's already developed the bid for me with scope of work. Last night we received an invitation to bid on a large commercial site prep. By the time I woke up this morning it had prepared a $4 million bid with a perfect earthwork takeoff. I just woke up, reviewed it, made some basic changes to the formatting and sent it off. What used to take 40 hours of office work took it less than 4 hours and it did it while I slept and without input from me. I don't doubt AI adoption is slow because people just don't know how to use it for its higher level functions or they just refuse to use it because of the media. It took me about a week to train the agent on the commercial bidding process, but it's probably saved me 3 months worth of work this year alone. I went from doing stupid menial tasks at the office to hiring 3 more guys and now run another crew myself. Everything from scheduling, to quoting to ordering supplies online is done through our AI agents. I didn't just pocket the difference in profit. We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. I'm making more money than we've ever made. I don't want AI to slow down. I want this thing to basically be able to run the entire business in a year. I'd love to just wake up and work with my hands. I hate office work. It's so f***** boring. For all you old guys in the trades, say goodbye to the high paying project manager jobs. I'd suggest brushing up on dozer and excavator work. You do you and all, but I'd definitely be more cautious than you're portraying. We're in similar fields, and every iteration of AI I've tried, even the purpose built ones, have errors. It's been pretty established by researchers that AI has currently excellent accuracy on count based items and wildly variable accuracy on area measurements and other items that don't conform well to a standard plan sheet. Additionally, how do you or your estimator review the estimate scope and detail if you haven't actually review the plans & specs in detail? If you're doing that anyway, just use the AI to draft your stuff. That's what we're currently doing. |
| As others have pointed out AI can and will make mistakes. Somebody still needs to review and manage it's output. It won't replace people; it will streamline your workforce. It's like when accounting software arrived for the PC. It did not eliminate the need for an accountant it simply reduced the number of accountants you needed to do the job. It doesn't eliminate your workforce; it's a workforce multiplier. |
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Easily irritated engineer of odd things
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| I use AI to build custom software. Works wonderfully. Of course I have to be there, give the logic, have the ideas, etc., but the pace at which I can create deployable software is insane compared to done manually with a team of engineers. |
Once you realize that all power comes from the credible threat of the use of deadly force, and the gov't hates you, most things become easy to understand..
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Originally Posted By EncoreGolf: vague statements like that irk me. How? What can it do for my golf shop? Originally Posted By EncoreGolf: Originally Posted By Stlrain0341: It’s transformative for any small business. A lot of people really don’t understand how effective it can be. vague statements like that irk me. How? What can it do for my golf shop? Depends what your pain points are, but just managing inventory, labor management, and improving marketing would be starting points for sure. What are your pain points? What do you spend the most time on? What are your goals for your business? |
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Originally Posted By Bigdawg90: My wife and I started integrating AI into our construction business last year. We pay about $500/month for the high end professional level bundles. I don’t think people realize how transformative AI is for the trades. I eliminated our office manager, book keeper, social media marketing, quoter/estimator, and most of our lawyer billable. It’s saved me over $300k in overhead just this year. By the time I leave a quote, it’s already developed the bid for me with scope of work. Last night we received an invitation to bid on a large commercial site prep. By the time I woke up this morning it had prepared a $4 million bid with a perfect earthwork takeoff. I just woke up, reviewed it, made some basic changes to the formatting and sent it off. What used to take 40 hours of office work took it less than 4 hours and it did it while I slept and without input from me. I don’t doubt AI adoption is slow because people just don’t know how to use it for its higher level functions or they just refuse to use it because of the media. It took me about a week to train the agent on the commercial bidding process, but it’s probably saved me 3 months worth of work this year alone. I went from doing stupid menial tasks at the office to hiring 3 more guys and now run another crew myself. Everything from scheduling, to quoting to ordering supplies online is done through our AI agents. I didn’t just pocket the difference in profit. We were able to add 5 positions between the dump truck driver, 3 more laborers and another foreman. I’m making more money than we’ve ever made. I don’t want AI to slow down. I want this thing to basically be able to run the entire business in a year. I’d love to just wake up and work with my hands. I hate office work. It’s so f***** boring. For all you old guys in the trades, say goodbye to the high paying project manager jobs. I’d suggest brushing up on dozer and excavator work. I don’t use it in the trades but it has enabled me to do some superpower level things. One of which is a big deal in the making but I can’t discuss without doxxing myself. |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By 15jonshoot: Nice trade off dumping 5 office positions and adding 5 workers to do the money generating work. If your experience is going to be the norm then maybe all the country won't end up on welfare. No, we will just be stuck doing manual labor until the robots are good enough to do it. Then they will just fire us. |
| I'm a little guy and sell items I buy at pallet auctions on Ebay. It's been great for me. I open up Gemini, take a picture of the item or part number and it immediately gives me identification, retail pricing, ebay suggested pricing, ebay prior sales prices as well as generates an Ebay listing title. I was struggling before I discovered this as I used to just type in the part numbers on Google and was very time consuming. It can ID almost anything with 98% accuracy. I also only had time to list about 300 items the old way. I'm up to over 550 using this simple form of AI to assist me in my sales. Was stuck at sales in the 70-80k range in 2024-2025 but should end up at 150k in sales by the end of this year and net half of that after expenses. I have between 10-15hrs a week combined with auction preview, pickup, ebay listing and running to fedex almost every day and it's become a very beneficial side hustle. Was able to pick up a rental home in late 2023 for 150k and will have it paid off by the end of this year. |
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Originally Posted By sprtpilot: The mistakes it will make will hurt you, hard. And it won't care or refrain from making the same and new mistakes the next time. With all the stories coming out about AI hallucinations and agents going rouge, why anyone would trust it blows my mind. Having a healthy skepticism is good. Blindly following a trend such as AI adoption is bad because you lose skills, and you become reliant on something you don't understand. |