Nearly half of adults under 30 live with their parents (Page 3 of 6)
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Originally Posted By luscioman: In my area the cheapest condo is about 350k. Someone out of college for a few years makeling 65k cant afford that. |
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Originally Posted By comp_orng_boss: People talk about affordability, and how you can't get your own place, and how rent is inflated. But then we point to shows, which are now 30 years old, where a bunch of young mid 20 somethings live together with room mates. Do young people not have room mates anymore? Yeah sure $2500/mo rent is expensive (in a high COL area), but split 3 ways is very affordable on even a $50k salary. Originally Posted By comp_orng_boss: Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-half-of-adults-under-30-live-with-their-parents-the-financial-fallout-could-last-for-decades-5d9f059d Opinion: Nearly half of adults under 30 live with their parents. The financial fallout could last for decades. Childhood homes are the new 'first apartment Millennials came of age watching shows like "Friends" and "New Girl" that often featured 20- and 30-somethings living in their first apartments. The characters' parents may have visited and participated in the story lines, but these young adults were living independently. Yet it doesn't seem a coincidence to me that one newer show that caters to Generation Z, "Adults," has a group of friends living rent-free in one of the character's childhood home. People talk about affordability, and how you can't get your own place, and how rent is inflated. But then we point to shows, which are now 30 years old, where a bunch of young mid 20 somethings live together with room mates. Do young people not have room mates anymore? Yeah sure $2500/mo rent is expensive (in a high COL area), but split 3 ways is very affordable on even a $50k salary. Look at the numbers. Look at average home costs and average wage increases and tell me there isn't a problem. I don't give two fucks that monica and Rachel lived together (in a rent controlled apartment on a waitress salary by the way) |
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Originally Posted By JaredGrey: I lived with my parents into my twenties. I did buy a starter house for my fiancee, which I fixed up and then moved into after we got married. $5k away from paying it off. Starter houses today aren't in demand by young people / new families anymore. Around me they get bought up by corporations and turned into rentals, or if they're big enough, bought up and turned into multi families which usually go to house more than a dozen Latinos (speaking from professional experience canvassing). The young people / families want something bigger than the economical 2 bedroom 1 bath starter home in an old neighborhood. They want a 250-300k house without building up to it over years. So the state homes go to Blackrock or whatever, or get demolished because corporations 2k miles away make crappy landlords and they get condemned by local government when the mid level property manager doesn't give a damn about drugs and porches rotting off or 87 police calls a month. Which is not at all to say that the housing marked isn't totally screwed...but the above is why it's screwed. Corporations (unless it's some LLC that mom and pop made for their 3 retirement passive income rentals) shouldn't be buying starter homes, much less 50 of them. Local governments should be doing more to take care of and beautify their older neighborhoods where new home buyers should be able to afford to live. And young people shouldn't expect that starting out in an HR Generalist role for XYZ startup is going to get them the glamorous apartment downtown or the 6 bedroom cookie cutter house in the suburbs. We're witnessing the culmination of a lot of bad policies, from bad education, to lack of policing, to bad parenting, to bad city planning, to bad corporate behavior. Yknow what would help? Deporting 30mil illegals (and 80mil democrats). That would free up a bunch of jobs and houses. Those starter houses get bought up by companies because the young couples can’t compete with them, not necessarily because there’s no demand for them. That really only leaves two choices, over paying to compete for a house, or buying ones that are actually being built(fancy houses loaded with more premium features). |
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol: If us millennials are counting on SS to save us, I have a bridge to sell you right next to some ocean front property. Nobody is coming to save you, the future government is going to be divided and extremely partisan and whatever tribe manages to hold power will wield it ruthlessly. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Exactly what I'm talking about. "not hard" is 100% out of touch. You had to have two incomes to start looking at houses, that's part of the problem. If you want to have a traditional family with a stay at home mom and own a house it's exceedingly difficult for most people. You should not have to have two incomes to buy even a small home in an okay place. Why does an 18 year old need to have enough to support a family? There is time for that, its not 18. Go to college or get in a trade, get established, then start a family. Thats exactly what I did. So yeah, it can be done. It takes hard work and sacrifice. That has always been part of the equation. But seeing kids bitch about cost of housing while they look at super expensive houses with granite and marble showers, while holding a thousand dollar purse in one hand and a $1500 phone in the other is laughable. I had a flip phone until I was 28, because a smart phone for the first decade wasn't in the cards. You can build a perfectly livable budget today. It just doesnt include cable, designer clothes, a new car, or a 3000sg house. Neither did mine starting out, and even now I don't spend frivolously though I certainly could. |
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Originally Posted By fdawg: It's not that starter homes aren't demanded it's it's that there is no profitability in them, my friend is a builder and he says that on average it's about 30% in impact fees and permits per unit. At that point it just makes sense to build bigger so that there is a margin of profitability built-in. Originally Posted By fdawg: Originally Posted By JaredGrey: I lived with my parents into my twenties. I did buy a starter house for my fiancee, which I fixed up and then moved into after we got married. $5k away from paying it off. Starter houses today aren't in demand by young people / new families anymore. Around me they get bought up by corporations and turned into rentals, or if they're big enough, bought up and turned into multi families which usually go to house more than a dozen Latinos (speaking from professional experience canvassing). The young people / families want something bigger than the economical 2 bedroom 1 bath starter home in an old neighborhood. They want a 250-300k house without building up to it over years. So the state homes go to Blackrock or whatever, or get demolished because corporations 2k miles away make crappy landlords and they get condemned by local government when the mid level property manager doesn't give a damn about drugs and porches rotting off or 87 police calls a month. Which is not at all to say that the housing marked isn't totally screwed...but the above is why it's screwed. Corporations (unless it's some LLC that mom and pop made for their 3 retirement passive income rentals) shouldn't be buying starter homes, much less 50 of them. Local governments should be doing more to take care of and beautify their older neighborhoods where new home buyers should be able to afford to live. And young people shouldn't expect that starting out in an HR Generalist role for XYZ startup is going to get them the glamorous apartment downtown or the 6 bedroom cookie cutter house in the suburbs. We're witnessing the culmination of a lot of bad policies, from bad education, to lack of policing, to bad parenting, to bad city planning, to bad corporate behavior. Yknow what would help? Deporting 30mil illegals (and 80mil democrats). That would free up a bunch of jobs and houses. I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but among my friends and family, only one person has not purchased much more house than they can afford or need right out of the gate, and then struggled to maintain that standard of living if they didn't ruthlessly advance their career. My biological brother has been the most egregious. He and his girlfriend were both working mall retail and got an apartment far beyond what they could afford when they moved out. They bounced between increasingly more expensive houses as they moved up the ranks in their respective careers. She's a mid level public school teacher, he's mid level HR, they don't really have a career trajectory beyond that, they have no kids, no pets, and have never owned a home with less than 6 bedrooms and a pool they never use. They have no savings, no investments, eat out for every meal, and make minimum payments on both their mortgage and several thousand dollars of clothing store credit cards. |
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Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: Why does an 18 year old need to have enough to support a family? There is time for that, its not 18. Go to college or get in a trade, get established, then start a family. Thats exactly what I did. So yeah, it can be done. It takes hard work and sacrifice. That has always been part of the equation. But seeing kids bitch about cost of housing while they look at super expensive houses with granite and marble showers, while holding a thousand dollar purse in one hand and a $1500 phone in the other is laughable. I had a flip phone until I was 28, because a smart phone for the first decade wasn't in the cards. You can build a perfectly livable budget today. It just doesnt include cable, designer clothes, a new car, or a 3000sg house. Neither did mine starting out, and even now I don't spend frivolously though I certainly could. You're out of touch and denying reality. I could talk about what I did too, but it's irrelevant to the current situation. The fact remains that it used to be possible to start a young family and get by on one income. It's exceedingly difficult to do that now. You'd think the party of traditional family values would acknowledge that. |
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I'm 42 and a handful of my old friend circle have bounced back and forth between living on their own and living with their parents for years. I have one friend who got his ME degree and works for the Navy. Lives in his parents basement in what used to be his dad's home office. I can't really blame him I guess. He pockets all the money he makes and is set to inherit the house. Other friends have been in and out because- surprise- playing music in bars and working as kitchens doesn't pay rent any more and nobody in their 40s wants to go in on renting a house with 5 of their buddies like we did in our early 20s. |
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Originally Posted By AJE: I've got an idea in my head that my adult children are welcome to live at home and get jobs, and pay "rent" into their investment accounts, which can later be used as a down payment, or whatever expenses they need when they are ready to buy something. Originally Posted By AJE: Originally Posted By flcroc: Originally Posted By deschutes541: My wife and I rented a loft before buying our house. 8 years ago the rent was $710, now it’s $1,500. It looks exactly the same as it did when we lived there. I don’t expect any of my kids to move out at 18. If it’s financially feasible, sure, they can make their own choices but I won’t be kicking them out. I expect to expand my current home or build an ADU eventually. My oldest (25) hasn't really lived at home since she went to college - 4 hours away for undergrad, another town 4 hours away for grad and now lives there. Just got married; her and husband bought a little 1300SF starter home for about $285k. Not a bad deal in today's climate but def not what I generally would consider a good price (not sure those are common now). My 23 year old graduates this year and has a job lined up here, so she's moving back in with me. No charging rent, but she'll be helping out around the house. 20 year old has the same offer when he graduates. I don't know why a parent wouldn't be willing to help out with a child that has their head on straight, but we did that thread a couple of months ago and some of GD really showed their asses. I've got an idea in my head that my adult children are welcome to live at home and get jobs, and pay "rent" into their investment accounts, which can later be used as a down payment, or whatever expenses they need when they are ready to buy something. monica.jpg |
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Originally Posted By NCC-82893: I predict by 2030 we well be in economicd epression 2.0. History is repeating itself, only at a faster rate. The Great Depression that happened about 100 years ago might as well have been a different country. Most people lived on family farms and not cities, America was largely homogenous of European people, most people were Christian. If we do a repeat of the 1930’s exactly let alone anything worse it’s going to be apocalyptic. |
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I moved out right after college as I had to relocate for my first job. Do kids these days not look beyond their home zip codes for jobs? My kid took about two months to find a job after college and moved out immediately, even though it was local. Expectations were set, there was never a question of staying any longer. |
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Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL: Its going to be worse. The Great Depression that happened about 100 years ago might as well have been a different country. Most people lived on family farms and not cities, America was largely homogenous of European people, most people were Christian. If we do a repeat of the 1930’s exactly let alone anything worse it’s going to be apocalyptic. Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL: Originally Posted By NCC-82893: I predict by 2030 we well be in economicd epression 2.0. History is repeating itself, only at a faster rate. The Great Depression that happened about 100 years ago might as well have been a different country. Most people lived on family farms and not cities, America was largely homogenous of European people, most people were Christian. If we do a repeat of the 1930’s exactly let alone anything worse it’s going to be apocalyptic. Yup, and the Great Depression allowed a lot of socialist garbage to get pushed through that probably otherwise would have been a nonstarter. Great Depression 2.0 will result in all the current leftwing cradle to grave nanny state proposals being enthusiastically approved. |
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Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL: Millennials came of age watching shows like “Friends” and “New Girl” that often featured 20- and 30-somethings living in their first apartments. The characters’ parents may have visited and participated in the story lines, but these young adults were living independently. Yep, a line cook and a waitress and a masseur living in NYC in a 1200 sq foot three bedroom apartment with a huge living room and huge windows with great views. The wife watches Hallmark movies where the female lead works at a dog adoption agency has has her own (easy $1.5M) house in Vancouver. Fiction never changes... My niece worked in NYC after getting a business degree and shared a 700 sq ft, 2 BR, fourth floor walkup apartment with two roommates (about 15 years ago). Her bedroom was maybe 6'x10' and had a sheet for curtains. I told her that the guy living directly across from her (maybe 10' away) could see everything in her room at night when her lights were on, including when she was changing. She could care less. Modern women... |
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Originally Posted By jwnc: Yep, a line cook and a waitress and a masseur living in NYC in a 1200 sq foot three bedroom apartment with a huge living room and huge windows with great views. The wife watches Hallmark movies where the female lead works at a dog adoption agency has has her own (easy $1.5M) house in Vancouver. Fiction never changes... Originally Posted By jwnc: Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL: Millennials came of age watching shows like “Friends” and “New Girl” that often featured 20- and 30-somethings living in their first apartments. The characters’ parents may have visited and participated in the story lines, but these young adults were living independently. Yep, a line cook and a waitress and a masseur living in NYC in a 1200 sq foot three bedroom apartment with a huge living room and huge windows with great views. The wife watches Hallmark movies where the female lead works at a dog adoption agency has has her own (easy $1.5M) house in Vancouver. Fiction never changes... Monica illegally sublet her grandmother's rent controlled apartment, the show acknowledged that the apartment was impossible for her and Rachel to afford, even in the mid 90's. |
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Yup, and the Great Depression allowed a lot of socialist garbage to get pushed through that probably otherwise would have been a nonstarter. Great Depression 2.0 will result in all the current leftwing cradle to grave nanny state proposals being enthusiastically approved. Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL: Originally Posted By NCC-82893: I predict by 2030 we well be in economicd epression 2.0. History is repeating itself, only at a faster rate. The Great Depression that happened about 100 years ago might as well have been a different country. Most people lived on family farms and not cities, America was largely homogenous of European people, most people were Christian. If we do a repeat of the 1930’s exactly let alone anything worse it’s going to be apocalyptic. Yup, and the Great Depression allowed a lot of socialist garbage to get pushed through that probably otherwise would have been a nonstarter. Great Depression 2.0 will result in all the current leftwing cradle to grave nanny state proposals being enthusiastically approved. Imagine Wickard v. Filburn with drones, AI, the internet, and flock cams. They'll know everything everyone has and they'll distribute it "equitably" with keystrokes. |
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well, have you seen the price for houses? how the fuck can most people afford them anymore? imagine being 18 just out of skool or 22 and just out of college and a small ranch runs 300k and you make 30k. i dont blame kids. i moved back in w my dad at 43 during my divorce. no, i didnt have to, but why the fuck not? thats what we do for family... |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Denying the astronomical cost of housing and ignoring stagnant wages and inflation is absurd. You're out of touch and denying reality. I could talk about what I did too, but it's irrelevant to the current situation. The fact remains that it used to be possible to start a young family and get by on one income. It's exceedingly difficult to do that now. You'd think the party of traditional family values would acknowledge that. The world has passed older generations by at the speed of light. |
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Originally Posted By LV1976: Monica illegally sublet her grandmother's rent controlled apartment, the show acknowledged that the apartment was impossible for her and Rachel to afford, even in the mid 90's. Good catch. Still... |
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My step-daughter is a freshman in college and is stuck in a crappy dorm. She's having a meltdown because she doesn't have any space, doesn't have her own bathroom, and had difficulty dealing with roommate stuff. It seems, supported by comments and evidence, that she believes she deserves a lot better. She wants her own room, her own bathroom, and about $500 a month to spend on anything she WANTS (not needs). If she is any indication of the typical zoomer, I don't have a lot of sympathy. On the other hand I have a daughter and two sons who are either happily in college or living on their own. Oldest is 25, successful and bought a townhouse in Co. Spgs. so I know it's not universal. |
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Originally Posted By comp_orng_boss: People talk about affordability, and how you can't get your own place, and how rent is inflated. But then we point to shows, which are now 30 years old, where a bunch of young mid 20 somethings live together with room mates. Do young people not have room mates anymore? Yeah sure $2500/mo rent is expensive (in a high COL area), but split 3 ways is very affordable on even a $50k salary. I remember the show "Married with Children" Al works at what is essentially a Payless Shoe store in the mall but somehow 30 years ago that afforded you the ability to live in a big house in the suburbs, with kids, as the sole provider. And as someone who actually lives in a HCOL market on the West Coast, the $2500 house doesn't really exist. That would be tough even if you're looking in the worst, most crime ridden, neighborhoods in the area. . . . or maybe an hour's commute outside of town When my company went back to in-office work last September I toured (4) apartments in the nice area. Each one was about $3,200/month after parking and utilities. Could probably come in under $3,0000 for a studio. |
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Originally Posted By jwnc: Good catch. Still... Originally Posted By jwnc: Originally Posted By LV1976: Monica illegally sublet her grandmother's rent controlled apartment, the show acknowledged that the apartment was impossible for her and Rachel to afford, even in the mid 90's. Good catch. Still... I'm just pointing the "Friends" example was based on an extraordinary situation, even 30+ years ago so it's completely useless as an anecdote, even if it wasn't from a fictional sitcom. |
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Originally Posted By Torf: My step-daughter is a freshman in college and is stuck in a crappy dorm. She's having a meltdown because she doesn't have any space, doesn't have her own bathroom, and had difficulty dealing with roommate stuff. It seems, supported by comments and evidence, that she believes she deserves a lot better. She wants her own room, her own bathroom, and about $500 a month to spend on anything she WANTS (not needs). If she is any indication of the typical zoomer, I don't have a lot of sympathy. On the other hand I have a daughter and two sons who are either happily in college or living on their own. Oldest is 25, successful and bought a townhouse in Co. Spgs. so I know it's not universal. I can't believe these spoiled shits think they deserve better than communist peasants. Crazy. |
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Well la de fuckin da. Everyone I know who's now successful had a roommate for several years, or a spouse. Those who had roommates knew it was a temp situation. They split the rent in a NON-Luxury apt., saved and scrimped like crazy, had NO car payment, NO "toys", NO vacations, worked OVERTIME, saved a down payment, then went out and bought a first home. It was just considered normal, but 'normal" is a 4-letter word now. Everyone has to be "special". Others like myself found a good woman and married her. We did the same things listed above. Still married 43+ years later. Zero sympathy. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: My wife grew up in the Soviet union, where entire families shared one room and shared a bathroom with other families. I can't believe these spoiled shits think they deserve better than communist peasants. Crazy. Dude, have you not read the Constitution? It says right there "pursuit of happiness". Or something. |
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Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL: There will be fallout from this that can’t be seen today. This ties into my belief that when the time comes for social security to be means tested, this generation will willingly outvote you and not care at all you were cheated out of your social security. They have no stake in the current system and historically this has led to bad things. Ironic. Me me me. In reality this generation will have paid into Social Security their whole working life but will be left to sift through the smoldering ruins for whatever's left in 2040 or 2050. At least you got yours- that they funded? |
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Originally Posted By Lou_Daks: Well la de fuckin da. Everyone I know who's now successful had a roommate for several years, or a spouse. Those who had roommates knew it was a temp situation. They split the rent in a NON-Luxury apt., saved and scrimped like crazy, had NO car payment, NO "toys", NO vacations, worked OVERTIME, saved a down payment, then went out and bought a first home. It was just considered normal, but 'normal" is a 4-letter word now. Everyone has to be "special". Others like myself found a good woman and married her. We did the same things listed above. Still married 43+ years later. Zero sympathy. You're out of touch and have no idea how much more difficult it is right now than it used to be. Meanwhile I've always hoped my kids would have better opportunities than me. Wild to see parents and grandparents that don't care. |
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Originally Posted By Lou_Daks: Dude, have you not read the Constitution? It says right there "pursuit of happiness". Or something. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that the housing market and economy as a whole is trash right now? What does any of this have to do with the Constitution? |
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Originally Posted By Andrewh: every one of those shows had people with room mates to afford those apartments. I had a roommate for everyplace I lived but 1 till nearly 30. this isn't new that someone just out of college can't afford a place on their own. they just make it like it is. Fitting 4 roommates in a 2 bedroom apartment is often not practical. |
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Originally Posted By Hesperus: Also, everyone in GD has thousands of acres of land, five houses and manage several apartment complexes in addition to their regular full time jobs. So to them an overinflated housing market is just money in the bank, a lot of it. And they act like their precious GOP/ "Conservatives" also did not sell out this country to investors and private equity firms that focus on Real Estate. It sucks out there for the majority of America. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Hard to save for a down payment when 50% of your income is going towards rent. You're out of touch and have no idea how much more difficult it is right now than it used to be. Meanwhile I've always hoped my kids would have better opportunities than me. Wild to see parents and grandparents that don't care. Bullsh*t. Get a roommate. Or two. Or three. Math. It's harder when you're dumb, or a byproduct of public schools, or both. |
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Originally Posted By wakeboarder: Maybe if millennials got real degrees they wouldn’t be making manual labor wages and have nice things before they get to live off the success and death of their parents Millennials are 31-45 years old so they aren't even represented in this datapoint. << This Millennial is doing fine. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: My wife grew up in the Soviet union, where entire families shared one room and shared a bathroom with other families. I can't believe these spoiled shits think they deserve better than communist peasants. Crazy. 
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Explain what that has to do with anything. Did you think I'm advocating for handouts? Why do you refuse to acknowledge that the housing market and economy as a whole is trash right now? What does any of this have to do with the Constitution? The Joke _____________ You 
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Originally Posted By Lou_Daks: Bullsh*t. Get a roommate. Or two. Or three. Math. It's harder when you're dumb, or a byproduct of public schools, or both. Originally Posted By Lou_Daks: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Hard to save for a down payment when 50% of your income is going towards rent. You're out of touch and have no idea how much more difficult it is right now than it used to be. Meanwhile I've always hoped my kids would have better opportunities than me. Wild to see parents and grandparents that don't care. Bullsh*t. Get a roommate. Or two. Or three. Math. It's harder when you're dumb, or a byproduct of public schools, or both. Indeed, math is hard. Go do some. |
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Originally Posted By LittlePony: Fitting 4 roommates in a 2 bedroom apartment is often not practical. Rent a house with more bedrooms, or a bigger apt., that fits 4 people. Or a smaller apt. which is cheaper, for fewer people. Split rent. Profit. True math fact: Two people living in an apt. is HALF the cost per person as 1 person in the same apt. "But muh privacy!" |
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Originally Posted By Lou_Daks: Bullsh*t. Get a roommate. Or two. Or three. Math. It's harder when you're dumb, or a byproduct of public schools, or both. 
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Look, yes, I have banged HUNDREDS of broads. INTERNATIONALLY. But know this - I wrap my rascal, TWO TIMES, cuz I like it to be joyless and without sensation. It's a way of punishing supermodels.
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Originally Posted By djkest: Roland is correct here. I'm not a renter but the situation is uniquely bad ever since COVID hit. Originally Posted By djkest: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Bullshit. Go look at the fucking numbers and get your head out of the sand. Indeed, math is hard. Go do some. Roland is correct here. I'm not a renter but the situation is uniquely bad ever since COVID hit. |
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Originally Posted By The_Master_Shake: https://media2.giphy.com/media/lSDFetrqeeY0rCi3Ss/200.webp?cid=8dc8958czooz41tchhkmqgaeadvva2lqxq5hggaojvfjv9s2&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g Ain't nobody yelling. You confuse my DGAF with yelling. Joke's on you, bub. |
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Originally Posted By Lou_Daks: Well la de fuckin da. Everyone I know who's now successful had a roommate for several years, or a spouse. Those who had roommates knew it was a temp situation. They split the rent in a NON-Luxury apt., saved and scrimped like crazy, had NO car payment, NO "toys", NO vacations, worked OVERTIME, saved a down payment, then went out and bought a first home. It was just considered normal, but 'normal" is a 4-letter word now. Everyone has to be "special". Others like myself found a good woman and married her. We did the same things listed above. Still married 43+ years later. Zero sympathy. You have have stated numerous times that you started buying real estate at the beginning of a credit cycle, when rates were high and values were low. As rates went down to historic lows the value of your equity went to historic highs. Young people are looking to buy during the end of a credit cycle. Look at the ten year yield just today. Real estate advice from 1980 is not relevant today. I am both happy for your hardwork and ability to capitalize on these trends and sympathetic for the 30 year old, who missed out on the chance. |
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Originally Posted By Lou_Daks: Why is math uniquely bad now? Having a roommate splits the rent by the # of roommates. Did math go out of style during covid? Originally Posted By Lou_Daks: Originally Posted By djkest: Roland is correct here. I'm not a renter but the situation is uniquely bad ever since COVID hit. Why is math uniquely bad now? Having a roommate splits the rent by the # of roommates. Did math go out of style during covid? How do you not see this? As a self proclaimed mathologist you'd think it would be an easy concept to grasp. |
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer