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Originally Posted By 2sledgehammers: Having bad timing I did the reverse. Got rid of a RAV4 to by a truck (Ranger Raptor ) that pretty much requires premium. Fun truck but premium does sting every fill up.  Same. Killed my 2011 Hyundai Accent and replaced it with a 2020 Toyota 86, right before the Iran shit kicked off. |
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Originally Posted By Nickel_Plated: Same. Killed my 2011 Hyundai Accent and replaced it with a 2020 Toyota 86, right before the Iran shit kicked off. Or does the 86 encourage, say, a different driving style than the Hyundai?
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Arfcom Callsign: Meth
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
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Originally Posted By Deadtired: A 1976 Buick Skylark weighs couple hundred pounds more than a 2026 Corolla Hybrid. All in the 3100-3300 lb range. Originally Posted By Deadtired: Originally Posted By tc556guy: Compared to what was on the road forty years ago every new car today is a subcompact One of the few LIGHT subcompacts on the US roads today is the Mazda Miata which is still around 2300 pounds in weight. They started out light, then gradually got heavier, then shaved off some of the poundage and actually got a bit lighter, especially since it's no longer a full convertible. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
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Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: True subcompacts don't make sense on American roads. Historically, most didn't have much of an efficiency difference over compacts or even midsize sedans, and when you do the math on fuel costs instead of looking at a MPG number on a sticker, the difference in fuel cost was trivial. Alternatively, when you look at driver fatality statistics, the difference is extreme. Subcompacts and kei cars make sense in EU and Asian countries with heavy taxation and tight parking, but those problems don't exist to the same extent here. Pretty much this. The last time i bought a small car, i compared it to the Smart car and basically ended up with a 5 door that was more comfortable, roughly the same price, similar fuel efficiency and a more powerful motor. I can count on no hands the number of times that being able to park in a smaller parking space was of value to me. |
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Originally Posted By Deadtired: A 1976 Buick Skylark weighs couple hundred pounds more than a 2026 Corolla Hybrid. All in the 3100-3300 lb range. What are their respective dimensions. The average car was a boat back then compared to today |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Originally Posted By Citadel-SC: Americans are fatter and bigger than Asians and Europeans. But even when Americans were not fat, they didn’t like subcompacts generally speaking. It’s something in the culture and the big vast spaces of America. Big is better has always been a cultural sticking point in our society. Asians and Europeans don't necessarily like subcompact cars. They mostly just don't have a choice. In Japan, the kei cars are very directly a construct of tax policy. In Denmark, at least last time I looked in the 2010s, taxation on cars was so punitive, a base model VW Golf cost as much out the door there as a F-150 did here. The tax system is complicated, but generally speaking, the tax on most new cars is well over 100%, and it can be as much as 180%. Most places in Europe are also currently paying somewhere around $8 a gallon for gas right now. Parking and congestion are additional concerns. A lot of people in those places live in dense urban areas designed for horses and pedestrians. In the US, taxation is far less egregious, fuel is half the price, and most people live in suburbs built from the ground up with cars in mind. In the US, most drivers will also get in their vehicles and drive 20+ miles at 75+ MPH on a regular if not daily basis. Most of the global small cars aren't really designed for that. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
I'd love to see more small cars/trucks out there available for people. Unfortunately, between most Americans being super fat, and also most Americans wanting big and monstrous vehicles......I just don't think the market is there.  I'm still rocking my 03' Mini Cooper S......never giving that thing up
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Originally Posted By tc556guy: What are their respective dimensions. The average car was a boat back then compared to today Originally Posted By tc556guy: Originally Posted By Deadtired: A 1976 Buick Skylark weighs couple hundred pounds more than a 2026 Corolla Hybrid. All in the 3100-3300 lb range. What are their respective dimensions. The average car was a boat back then compared to today 40 years ago was 1986. The US auto market was well into the architecture pivot by then. GM was all in on the A-Body (Celebrity/Cutlass Ciera/Century) as the volume cars, Chrysler was all in on the K platform, and Ford launched the Taurus with the Tempo already being in production. Traditional full size boats were still around, but they were languishing and models were already getting chopped around this time. Exterior dimensions changed quite a bit, but most of this was packaging and architecture optimization. Frames were replaced with unibodies, longitudinal engines were replaced with transverse, dead space in engine bays was reduced, and transmission tunnels in cabins were eliminated. By the time we get into stuff like the GM W body (think '90s LeSabres and Bonnevilles), you'd have to compare that to a much larger car from the '60s or '70s to match the interior space. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
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Originally Posted By R2point0: Versa stopped in 2025 I believe. Originally Posted By R2point0: Originally Posted By bluemax_1: A quick search shows that the only currently available models in the USA that fall under the EPA's subcompact car specs, are the Nissan Versa and Mini Cooper. …and then there was one… |
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Originally Posted By Pallas: How can you make anything smaller than a Corolla? Ever seen a Honda Fit, or a SmartCar? When I first saw a SmartCar on the road, my initial thought was, “That looks like the occupants would get hurt if a bicycle t-boned them” I sure as heck wouldn’t want to drive one around full-size pickups, much less brodozers. |
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Originally Posted By tc556guy: What are their respective dimensions. The average car was a boat back then compared to today Point is, calling a Corolla "tiny" today compared to a 1970's midsize is nuts. Big 70's cars were big compared to the small 70's cars, but until you get into the huge monster sedans (which are more comparable to todays full-size SUV's) they're actually not that huge (however they may feel). Small cars have gotten really really big. |
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Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
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Am I to take your submitted video .gif as an assertion that Americans are too far for subcompact cars?
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Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Certain subsets of US culture are enamoured of little euro/asian shitbox subcompacts. If they make one electric it’ll charm all the urban commuters too. Hell, just out a little car body on a golf cart… Presumably people didn’t buy these small cars, which is probably why Smart failed here. Frankly, those tiny Euro cars like the Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper have a connotation that, say, the Honda Fit didn’t have. I was just looking for a nondescript shit box. The reason I brought this up in the first place is because my rental house is right on the edge of a downtown area and has a 151-inch chode of a driveway and no dedicated street parking. I do have a large, fenced in place around back to park, but it’d be nice to have a smaller vehicle out front for short trips around town. The smallest car I’ve seen is a Corolla hatchback, and that’s something like 161 inches, and would stick out into the sidewalk, which the meter maids might bitch about. |
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Originally Posted By Ege: Presumably people didn't buy these small cars, which is probably why Smart failed here. Frankly, those tiny Euro cars like the Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper have a connotation that, say, the Honda Fit didn't have. I was just looking for a nondescript shit box. The reason I brought this up in the first place is because my rental house is right on the edge of a downtown area and has a 151-inch chode of a driveway and no dedicated street parking. I do have a large, fenced in place around back to park, but it'd be nice to have a smaller vehicle out front for short trips around town. The smallest car I've seen is a Corolla hatchback, and that's something like 161 inches, and would stick out into the sidewalk, which the meter maids might bitch about. |
Arfcom Callsign: Meth
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
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Originally Posted By Ege: Presumably people didn’t buy these small cars, which is probably why Smart failed here. Frankly, those tiny Euro cars like the Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper have a connotation that, say, the Honda Fit didn’t have. I was just looking for a nondescript shit box. The reason I brought this up in the first place is because my rental house is right on the edge of a downtown area and has a 151-inch chode of a driveway and no dedicated street parking. I do have a large, fenced in place around back to park, but it’d be nice to have a smaller vehicle out front for short trips around town. The smallest car I’ve seen is a Corolla hatchback, and that’s something like 161 inches, and would stick out into the sidewalk, which the meter maids might bitch about. Originally Posted By Ege: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Certain subsets of US culture are enamoured of little euro/asian shitbox subcompacts. If they make one electric it’ll charm all the urban commuters too. Hell, just out a little car body on a golf cart… Presumably people didn’t buy these small cars, which is probably why Smart failed here. Frankly, those tiny Euro cars like the Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper have a connotation that, say, the Honda Fit didn’t have. I was just looking for a nondescript shit box. The reason I brought this up in the first place is because my rental house is right on the edge of a downtown area and has a 151-inch chode of a driveway and no dedicated street parking. I do have a large, fenced in place around back to park, but it’d be nice to have a smaller vehicle out front for short trips around town. The smallest car I’ve seen is a Corolla hatchback, and that’s something like 161 inches, and would stick out into the sidewalk, which the meter maids might bitch about. At 151 inches, you need to start looking for microcars or an old original Mini. That is a SHORT ''driveway.'' |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By Ege: Presumably people didn’t buy these small cars, which is probably why Smart failed here. Frankly, those tiny Euro cars like the Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper have a connotation that, say, the Honda Fit didn’t have. I was just looking for a nondescript shit box. The reason I brought this up in the first place is because my rental house is right on the edge of a downtown area and has a 151-inch chode of a driveway and no dedicated street parking. I do have a large, fenced in place around back to park, but it’d be nice to have a smaller vehicle out front for short trips around town. The smallest car I’ve seen is a Corolla hatchback, and that’s something like 161 inches, and would stick out into the sidewalk, which the meter maids might bitch about. Originally Posted By Ege: Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane: Certain subsets of US culture are enamoured of little euro/asian shitbox subcompacts. If they make one electric it’ll charm all the urban commuters too. Hell, just out a little car body on a golf cart… Presumably people didn’t buy these small cars, which is probably why Smart failed here. Frankly, those tiny Euro cars like the Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper have a connotation that, say, the Honda Fit didn’t have. I was just looking for a nondescript shit box. The reason I brought this up in the first place is because my rental house is right on the edge of a downtown area and has a 151-inch chode of a driveway and no dedicated street parking. I do have a large, fenced in place around back to park, but it’d be nice to have a smaller vehicle out front for short trips around town. The smallest car I’ve seen is a Corolla hatchback, and that’s something like 161 inches, and would stick out into the sidewalk, which the meter maids might bitch about. According to some AI queries, that 160 inch mark was kind of it for a lot of cars including the Fit, Fiesta, Sonic, and Prius c. The Chevy Spark was shorter at 143 inches. The best fit on the market today is the Hyundai Venue at 159 inches. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
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Originally Posted By fxntime: At 151 inches, you need to start looking for microcars or an old original Mini. That is a SHORT ''driveway.'' Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: According to some AI queries, that 160 inch mark was kind of it for a lot of cars including the Fit, Fiesta, Sonic, and Prius c. The Chevy Spark was shorter at 143 inches. The best fit on the market today is the Hyundai Venue at 159 inches. Shoot, I misremembered: the Corolla hatchback is 172 inches, and I have 161 inches, not 151. Still short though. |
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https://www.mazdausa.com/vehicles/mx-5-miata ^ Not boring to drive. |
Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap.
"Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
"Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
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Originally Posted By Ege: Shoot, I misremembered: the Corolla hatchback is 172 inches, and I have 161 inches, not 151. Still short though. Originally Posted By Ege: Originally Posted By fxntime: At 151 inches, you need to start looking for microcars or an old original Mini. That is a SHORT ''driveway.'' Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: According to some AI queries, that 160 inch mark was kind of it for a lot of cars including the Fit, Fiesta, Sonic, and Prius c. The Chevy Spark was shorter at 143 inches. The best fit on the market today is the Hyundai Venue at 159 inches. Shoot, I misremembered: the Corolla hatchback is 172 inches, and I have 161 inches, not 151. Still short though. Remove Corolla’s rear plastic bumper. Bolt plate to the rear crash bar. Done Added plus; no one’s going to try to break into, or steal a Corolla with a missing bumper 
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Got enough of these 50 MPG turds to last me my driving life but they’re DIESEL. Attached File |
| They still exist. But nobody wants to pay $20k for a tiny stripped down shitbox when they can spend that on a lightly used car that's bigger, better featured, gets better MPGs, and actually retains some value when it's time to sell. The only reason to buy a brand new shitbox over an equivalently priced used car is the factory warranty. |
If it's horrible, it exists. If it's beautiful, you're imagining it.
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Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: But none of these cars are subcompacts. Subcompacts would be things like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, etc. Those cars aren't really sold in the US anymore, hence the point of the thread. The did well when and where purchasing power is limited. The peak of high interest malaise was the last time a real sub-compact - Chevette - sold in top 10 volumes. Festiva (Kia before Kia was cool) did ok. Until use exposed it. Mirage, Yaris, Sonic, Fiesta, Fig all sold well post '08 Crisis. Then evaporated. As long term reliability increased, so did the move to pre-owned. Escort (compact) was the top seller a number off years because you didn't want a used malaise era car. Starting about '15-'17 even poor people didn't see the value and bought used. Hybrids - especially used Toyota HSD models obviated the efficiency aspect. Used cured cost. $13-$17k bought a lot of used Japanese or Detroit iron. Attached File In other markets things like Aygo X, below Yaris - photo - not a bad car - Polo, Yaris Cross, even Lexus LBX exist because of tax structures, physical limits, operating costs (fuel or electricity) - especially in Japan. The States never warmed up to the Cimmeron (again compact) type premium small cars. Attached File NMP - PK Attached File GR Yaris or the Morizo RR LBX (2 above) or the Honda e (above) city car wouldn't work here. Tho does fine knocking around a Midwest urban area. Would I buy one - no. Neither would most and Honda got that. Why it never was imported for retail sale (mfg temp imports in single digits tho) Attached File NMP-PK Attached File NMP-PK Despite 300 hp and 3 pedals. Attached File But something like this - an 09 Hyundai I10 in Africa - is a very respectable family car 5 years from new in much if the world and sold well. I drove it for a couple weeks. The Chevy Corsa was the top seller about that time in Argentina. It was cheap, frugal and did ok being faster than walking. But cheap sold it. It's what happens when there's economic duress. They sell despite not because. in the States, unlikely Subs comeback, unless a shit show. So let's hope not., |
Tertium non datur
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Originally Posted By FrostBack: Got enough of these 50 MPG turds to last me my driving life but they're DIESEL. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/602999/IMG_5589_jpeg-3828805.JPG 3 months later "Hey, please check the oil, it's probably due." I forgot about her pseudo oppositional defiant disorder. You guessed it - ran it stone dry, locked up the engine. That was over 10 years ago. I loved that car. I'd still be driving it. |
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Originally Posted By Lexustech48: Honest answer? Toyota Prius. They are pretty solid cars, and the hybrid powertrain is a mature technology. That and the ill conceived Lexus UX don't sell well. The Prius might do better if they renamed it. It's type-cast, with almost all negative connotations. Similar systems in the Corolla HEV, tho 1.8L HSD @ 140hp vs 195 Prius HEV and it did twice the volume H1. Tho Corolla HEV is $3-5k cheaper. CorollaCross HEV sells as it makes dealer lots. Who buys a compact premium? UX won't be around much longer H1 - sub 7k units. |
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Originally Posted By R2point0: You lucky bastard! We had that same model golf TDI and a Liberty CRD when we separated and I moved out. The golf was my car, but I took the CRD because it was less reliable. 3 months later "Hey, please check the oil, it's probably due." I forgot about her pseudo oppositional defiant disorder. You guessed it - ran it stone dry, locked up the engine. That was over 10 years ago. I loved that car. I'd still be driving it. Yeah the 2000-2003 ones are the best! |
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Subcompacts have a lot going for them (or at least they did before they were killed off) ~40mpg with crap gas from places like Murphy’s Very simple and easy to maintain/repair Engines perfectly suited with simple port injection Much simpler and cheaper than hybrids Cost was less than $20k new The wear and tear is minimal because of the weight Registration and road taxes are helluva lot cheaper Easier to fit into tighter/limited spots (garage space) The last surviving models that were available were doomed with the crap the manufactures put in them to earn epa points to offset the gas guzzlers on the other end of the spectrum. Things like dct’s/cvt’s, wet oil pump belts, timing belts instead of timing chains, direct injection and turbos = killed the long term reliability when those “features” were completely unnecessary. Find a used subcompact with manual transmission or a regular automatic transmission with low miles. Try to avoid the unnecessary “features”. There are a couple of options that were being sold new in the USA in the past 5 years. Just looked at carmax and a lot of those subcompacts are reserved. |
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Originally Posted By 2sledgehammers: Having bad timing I did the reverse. Got rid of a RAV4 to by a truck (Ranger Raptor ) that pretty much requires premium. Fun truck but premium does sting every fill up. Dude it’s like a $15 difference. $15. It’s a $62,000 truck. Brother don’t sweat it. What else is $15 that nets the same amount of fun and happiness? Seriously cracks me up when people trip over premium. Skip the coffee a few x a month lol. |
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Originally Posted By mursalot: Subcompacts have a lot going for them (or at least they did before they were killed off) ~40mpg with crap gas from places like Murphy’s Very simple and easy to maintain/repair Engines perfectly suited with simple port injection Much simpler and cheaper than hybrids Cost was less than $20k new The wear and tear is minimal because of the weight Registration and road taxes are helluva lot cheaper Easier to fit into tighter/limited spots (garage space) The last surviving models that were available were doomed with the crap the manufactures put in them to earn epa points to offset the gas guzzlers on the other end of the spectrum. Things like dct’s/cvt’s, wet oil pump belts, timing belts instead of timing chains, direct injection and turbos = killed the long term reliability when those “features” were completely unnecessary. Find a used subcompact with manual transmission or a regular automatic transmission with low miles. Try to avoid the unnecessary “features”. There are a couple of options that were being sold new in the USA in the past 5 years. Just looked at carmax and a lot of those subcompacts are reserved. Agreed. Subcompacts with minimal “features” fit a great niche automakers I guess decided wasn’t profitable enough. I remember when my CTSV was in the shop after being hit in a collision, my rental was one of those Chevy Sonics. I pushed that thing to the limit and actually had fun with it. I’m pretty sure I very briefly had it on 3 wheels in a turn once 
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Originally Posted By ske714: The main reason they ever existed here was because of CAFE. They aren't nearly as profitable as larger vehicles. A lot of them were sold at a loss, just so the automakers could sell big, high profit vehicles and still comply with CAFE. This. Also, modern hybrids do an astoundingly good job of getting good mileage. When you can get 40-50mpg out of a honda accord that can also get up from a stop light surprisingly well, why go smaller? |
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Originally Posted By Ege: Shoot, I misremembered: the Corolla hatchback is 172 inches, and I have 161 inches, not 151. Still short though. The first gen Chevy bolt EV 2017-2023 is 163 inches. Buy one of those used It's a modern subcompact. |
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Originally Posted By fxntime: Toyota Yaris. One of my coworkers put about 350K on his driving into work as he lived quite a ways away. Thing just ran and ran and ran. The 1NZFE engine is bullet proof. |
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Originally Posted By mursalot: Subcompacts have a lot going for them (or at least they did before they were killed off) ~40mpg with crap gas from places like Murphy's Very simple and easy to maintain/repair Engines perfectly suited with simple port injection Much simpler and cheaper than hybrids Cost was less than $20k new The wear and tear is minimal because of the weight Registration and road taxes are helluva lot cheaper Easier to fit into tighter/limited spots (garage space) The last surviving models that were available were doomed with the crap the manufactures put in them to earn epa points to offset the gas guzzlers on the other end of the spectrum. Things like dct's/cvt's, wet oil pump belts, timing belts instead of timing chains, direct injection and turbos = killed the long term reliability when those "features" were completely unnecessary. Find a used subcompact with manual transmission or a regular automatic transmission with low miles. Try to avoid the unnecessary "features". There are a couple of options that were being sold new in the USA in the past 5 years. Just looked at carmax and a lot of those subcompacts are reserved. Some truth here, some rose glasses, and one assumption that doesn't hold true. Some thought. Outside 1 year, I can't think of a subcompact petrol sold in the States rated 40mpg combined in this century. Maybe you can hit where I missed. Mirage had a 40mpg EPA once. CVT and that stuck with me, as it hit home the efficiency value of CVT practically - not merely engineering/product strategies. 1.0L cars used to do it pretty handily - 80s and 90s. That was their purpose. Sprint, Metro, Firefly, Civic and CRX all did 40+ combined, even revised to new test regime. Honda did it with 1.5L. Most of the rest, didn't. Major component was weight. Safety suffers. Reg and taxes are same in either of my possible domicile states. Different elsewhere but many not huge. The conflation of complex and non-reliable. The Mirage and Versa 5MT were the poster children for this concept this century, and last to offer. Why have the complexity of a 6th gear !? . Yaris and Fit executed it pretty well. They did not. Niether were particularly well engineered in areas. They were built to a price not outcome. Engines weren't horrid and either with MT5 is fine with regular maintence. But so are just about every Hond and especially Toyota hybrid. A large pool trade monthly with 250k plus. There's a small pool that's made 500k to a million without much issue. So it's not as if avoiding hybrid is more reliable or durable, merely cheaper. And not significantly cheaper in op costs. Would I rather have a brand new Mirage or Versa . . . It's no contest. "Wear and tear" on a lot of these were accelerated. Mirage kinda a shit show (brakes, AC compressors, etc) . The only thing I recall on Versa was CV boots. But generally tho easy to fix, not stellar in the "no-touch" sense.Cheaper for reasons. Sonic wasn't bad, Fit and Yaris either. Versa marginal in many ways. Mirage tho, it was a dismal little thing. So peeps voted with their pocketbook and spent a bit more to move up a class or toe. If you could find a Versa S 5MT in 2020 it was base MSRP nearly $16k. Prius and Corolla were north of $22k - so that $6-7k was meaningful to many. But not enough as the sales show. You also had tax subsidies for hybrids and lean burn diesels, that narrowed that price difference at times. Value - well Yugo was half the cost of Civic. What had a better cost experience after 5 years and disposal at the end. It's not merely money at acquisition. It's a shame because I'm not averse. I learned gravel, hard, in Golfs and Fiestas. I get the simple part. If you dropped me, a Mk1, a $200 tool set and some spares, I could keep it running without a mobile shop needed for much modern. I'd pretty much done it Also get the weight. The Kona N was a hoot (tho B Seg SUV not traditional hatch). GR Yaris, as mentioned, is much preferred by me to Corolla. Mostly mass, which is exactly why I was smitten with the GTM Libra kit car. Only Seandrathaguineapig will have any idea. But in the end, the SubCompact, especially bottom feeder package wasn't compelling enough to keep them in the States. As more expensive B Seg SUV, other larger but equally or more efficient C Seg and larger, and used examples won out. |
Tertium non datur
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Originally Posted By Boognish: Agreed. Subcompacts with minimal "features" fit a great niche automakers I guess decided wasn't profitable enough. I remember when my CTSV was in the shop after being hit in a collision, my rental was one of those Chevy Sonics. I pushed that thing to the limit and actually had fun with it. I'm pretty sure I very briefly had it on 3 wheels in a turn once Originally Posted By Boognish: Originally Posted By mursalot: Subcompacts have a lot going for them (or at least they did before they were killed off) ~40mpg with crap gas from places like Murphy's Very simple and easy to maintain/repair Engines perfectly suited with simple port injection Much simpler and cheaper than hybrids Cost was less than $20k new The wear and tear is minimal because of the weight Registration and road taxes are helluva lot cheaper Easier to fit into tighter/limited spots (garage space) The last surviving models that were available were doomed with the crap the manufactures put in them to earn epa points to offset the gas guzzlers on the other end of the spectrum. Things like dct's/cvt's, wet oil pump belts, timing belts instead of timing chains, direct injection and turbos = killed the long term reliability when those "features" were completely unnecessary. Find a used subcompact with manual transmission or a regular automatic transmission with low miles. Try to avoid the unnecessary "features". There are a couple of options that were being sold new in the USA in the past 5 years. Just looked at carmax and a lot of those subcompacts are reserved. Agreed. Subcompacts with minimal "features" fit a great niche automakers I guess decided wasn't profitable enough. I remember when my CTSV was in the shop after being hit in a collision, my rental was one of those Chevy Sonics. I pushed that thing to the limit and actually had fun with it. I'm pretty sure I very briefly had it on 3 wheels in a turn once
Why those sales trends happened is varied. We can get into that if anyone asks (won't be our first delving but easily rehashed). But I can guarantee you if any of these sold 250k unit regular, they'd been proper treated and still avaible. Especially Versa. But not at all hard to see why they weren't. They weren't killed off. They withered on the vine. |
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Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Asians and Europeans don't necessarily like subcompact cars. They mostly just don't have a choice. In Japan, the kei cars are very directly a construct of tax policy. In Denmark, at least last time I looked in the 2010s, taxation on cars was so punitive, a base model VW Golf cost as much out the door there as a F-150 did here. The tax system is complicated, but generally speaking, the tax on most new cars is well over 100%, and it can be as much as 180%. Most places in Europe are also currently paying somewhere around $8 a gallon for gas right now. Parking and congestion are additional concerns. A lot of people in those places live in dense urban areas designed for horses and pedestrians. In the US, taxation is far less egregious, fuel is half the price, and most people live in suburbs built from the ground up with cars in mind. In the US, most drivers will also get in their vehicles and drive 20+ miles at 75+ MPH on a regular if not daily basis. Most of the global small cars aren't really designed for that. Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By Citadel-SC: Americans are fatter and bigger than Asians and Europeans. But even when Americans were not fat, they didn't like subcompacts generally speaking. It's something in the culture and the big vast spaces of America. Big is better has always been a cultural sticking point in our society. Asians and Europeans don't necessarily like subcompact cars. They mostly just don't have a choice. In Japan, the kei cars are very directly a construct of tax policy. In Denmark, at least last time I looked in the 2010s, taxation on cars was so punitive, a base model VW Golf cost as much out the door there as a F-150 did here. The tax system is complicated, but generally speaking, the tax on most new cars is well over 100%, and it can be as much as 180%. Most places in Europe are also currently paying somewhere around $8 a gallon for gas right now. Parking and congestion are additional concerns. A lot of people in those places live in dense urban areas designed for horses and pedestrians. In the US, taxation is far less egregious, fuel is half the price, and most people live in suburbs built from the ground up with cars in mind. In the US, most drivers will also get in their vehicles and drive 20+ miles at 75+ MPH on a regular if not daily basis. Most of the global small cars aren't really designed for that.  |
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Originally Posted By Alacrity: Yea, it's sales. Period.
Why those sales trends happened is varied. We can get into that if anyone asks (won't be our first delving but easily rehashed). But I can guarantee you if any of these sold 250k unit regular, they'd been proper treated and still avaible. Especially Versa. But not at all hard to see why they weren't. They weren't killed off. They withered on the vine. Originally Posted By Alacrity: Originally Posted By Boognish: Originally Posted By mursalot: Subcompacts have a lot going for them (or at least they did before they were killed off) ~40mpg with crap gas from places like Murphy's Very simple and easy to maintain/repair Engines perfectly suited with simple port injection Much simpler and cheaper than hybrids Cost was less than $20k new The wear and tear is minimal because of the weight Registration and road taxes are helluva lot cheaper Easier to fit into tighter/limited spots (garage space) The last surviving models that were available were doomed with the crap the manufactures put in them to earn epa points to offset the gas guzzlers on the other end of the spectrum. Things like dct's/cvt's, wet oil pump belts, timing belts instead of timing chains, direct injection and turbos = killed the long term reliability when those "features" were completely unnecessary. Find a used subcompact with manual transmission or a regular automatic transmission with low miles. Try to avoid the unnecessary "features". There are a couple of options that were being sold new in the USA in the past 5 years. Just looked at carmax and a lot of those subcompacts are reserved. Agreed. Subcompacts with minimal "features" fit a great niche automakers I guess decided wasn't profitable enough. I remember when my CTSV was in the shop after being hit in a collision, my rental was one of those Chevy Sonics. I pushed that thing to the limit and actually had fun with it. I'm pretty sure I very briefly had it on 3 wheels in a turn once
Why those sales trends happened is varied. We can get into that if anyone asks (won't be our first delving but easily rehashed). But I can guarantee you if any of these sold 250k unit regular, they'd been proper treated and still avaible. Especially Versa. But not at all hard to see why they weren't. They weren't killed off. They withered on the vine. Man there were some shitty stripped out escorts but there were also some really cool models. |
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i had a honda fit, replaced it with a fiesta st which i still have. i like small hatches. i wish they still made the fiesta st. i wish the performance hatch back was still i thing in the us but everyone wants a big pickup or Suv. the current oil situation may have an impact here. what i really wish theyd bring back would be the datsun 510. a real minicooper (original) would also be cool. i also had a crx HF that got about 45 mpg. these days you can get something like that in a prius. the destabilization of the world oil markets may accelerate the move to EVs whether we like it or not. |
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Originally Posted By ag04blast: Man there were some shitty stripped out escorts but there were also some really cool models. Originally Posted By ag04blast: Originally Posted By Alacrity: Originally Posted By Boognish: Originally Posted By mursalot: Subcompacts have a lot going for them (or at least they did before they were killed off) ~40mpg with crap gas from places like Murphy's Very simple and easy to maintain/repair Engines perfectly suited with simple port injection Much simpler and cheaper than hybrids Cost was less than $20k new The wear and tear is minimal because of the weight Registration and road taxes are helluva lot cheaper Easier to fit into tighter/limited spots (garage space) The last surviving models that were available were doomed with the crap the manufactures put in them to earn epa points to offset the gas guzzlers on the other end of the spectrum. Things like dct's/cvt's, wet oil pump belts, timing belts instead of timing chains, direct injection and turbos = killed the long term reliability when those "features" were completely unnecessary. Find a used subcompact with manual transmission or a regular automatic transmission with low miles. Try to avoid the unnecessary "features". There are a couple of options that were being sold new in the USA in the past 5 years. Just looked at carmax and a lot of those subcompacts are reserved. Agreed. Subcompacts with minimal "features" fit a great niche automakers I guess decided wasn't profitable enough. I remember when my CTSV was in the shop after being hit in a collision, my rental was one of those Chevy Sonics. I pushed that thing to the limit and actually had fun with it. I'm pretty sure I very briefly had it on 3 wheels in a turn once
Why those sales trends happened is varied. We can get into that if anyone asks (won't be our first delving but easily rehashed). But I can guarantee you if any of these sold 250k unit regular, they'd been proper treated and still avaible. Especially Versa. But not at all hard to see why they weren't. They weren't killed off. They withered on the vine. Man there were some shitty stripped out escorts but there were also some really cool models. There were. Many prior to the Escort making the crossing. But none offered in the States really. Maybe the Escort GT/Lynx RS Turbos. The later 1.9 GT with the Recaros weren’t bad. But most stayed in Europe. One of the coolest that didn’t make it @VVinci has as his avatar. Maybe he’ll glide in and tell the story. Would have been cool for the States. Attached File Prolly the coolest wasn’t really an Escort tho. |
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