Posted: 9/17/2026 9:27:06 AM EDT
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Now that gas prices are high and look like they’ll be that way for a while, are there any indications that subcompacts will return to the US market? It looks like they’re still being produced for every other market. The president made a few comments about Japanese kei cars, but chatter about that died down pretty quickly. |
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What exactly do you want, there are plenty of small, sub-compact-ish options out there right now. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, K4, Mazda3, Prius, etc. There are still actual subcompacts available but they dont sell in real high numbers. Those listed here are small and are highly efficient - as much as the old subcompact category. Ill add, and if you want 2 seats they still make the Miata. |
| The main reason they ever existed here was because of CAFE. They aren't nearly as profitable as larger vehicles. A lot of them were sold at a loss, just so the automakers could sell big, high profit vehicles and still comply with CAFE. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By ske714: The main reason they ever existed here was because of CAFE. They aren't nearly as profitable as larger vehicles. A lot of them were sold at a loss, just so the automakers could sell big, high profit vehicles and still comply with CAFE. You are referring to subcompacts from the Big 3. |
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: Detroit gave up on them and decided to focus on soccer mom SUVs and bro 'dozers. "There," they thought, "is a safe market for us to dominate since we get our ass's kicked when it comes down mpg-friendly sedans." (Mourns the Passat) |
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
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True subcompacts don't make sense on American roads. Historically, most didn't have much of an efficiency difference over compacts or even midsize sedans, and when you do the math on fuel costs instead of looking at a MPG number on a sticker, the difference in fuel cost was trivial. Alternatively, when you look at driver fatality statistics, the difference is extreme. Subcompacts and kei cars make sense in EU and Asian countries with heavy taxation and tight parking, but those problems don't exist to the same extent here. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
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Originally Posted By ag04blast: What exactly do you want, there are plenty of small, sub-compact-ish options out there right now. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, K4, Mazda3, Prius, etc. There are still actual subcompacts available but they dont sell in real high numbers. Those listed here are small and are highly efficient - as much as the old subcompact category. Ill add, and if you want 2 seats they still make the Miata. But none of these cars are subcompacts. Subcompacts would be things like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, etc. Those cars aren't really sold in the US anymore, hence the point of the thread. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
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Originally Posted By ag04blast: What exactly do you want, there are plenty of small, sub-compact-ish options out there right now. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, K4, Mazda3, Prius, etc. There are still actual subcompacts available but they dont sell in real high numbers. Those listed here are small and are highly efficient - as much as the old subcompact category. Ill add, and if you want 2 seats they still make the Miata. Terms have meanings. Subcompact specifically refers to cars with interior volumes of 99 cubic feet and under. None of those current production models you listed fall in the subcompact car category anymore. Some of those models did, back in the 60s (like the Corolla and Civic). But as every vehicle has grown in size, they moved into the Compact car category. There was a thread a while back with examples of how much the same model cars have grown, with an OG Mini Cooper next to a current Mini Cooper (the current MC is one of the only cars sold in the USA that still falls in the subcompact car category), and an early 70s Mustang parked next to a current Mustang. There are, however, several subcompact SUV models sold in the USA (different interior volume specs for subcompact SUVs). As to whether subcompacts will make a comeback? I personally don’t think so, for several reasons 1) the main reason? Americans are so friggin fat, they can’t easily fit in subcompact cars. 2) there are more and more hybrids that mitigate the MPG issues. Most people would choose a larger compact hybrid that gets ~40-50mpg, than one that gets that mpg by being tiny 3) not only do most Americans not easily fit into genuine subcompact cars easily, there’s also the question of safety. Like it or not, size and mass play a part in collisions. No matter how much engineering and science there is in safety features, there’s less space between you and the brodozer’s bumper when you’re in a tiny vehicle, and a bowling ball hitting a bocce ball results in a lot more acceleration of the bocce ball. |
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Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: But none of these cars are subcompacts. Subcompacts would be things like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, etc. Those cars aren't really sold in the US anymore, hence the point of the thread. close as you're gonna get. 
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Originally Posted By MFP_4073: close as you're gonna get. Originally Posted By MFP_4073: Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: But none of these cars are subcompacts. Subcompacts would be things like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, etc. Those cars aren't really sold in the US anymore, hence the point of the thread. close as you're gonna get. A quick search shows that the only currently available models in the USA that fall under the EPA’s subcompact car specs, are the Nissan Versa and Mini Cooper. |
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Originally Posted By ske714: The main reason they ever existed here was because of CAFE. They aren't nearly as profitable as larger vehicles. A lot of them were sold at a loss, just so the automakers could sell big, high profit vehicles and still comply with CAFE. Ironically I’m pretty sure one of the reasons we can’t have subcompact cars now is because of CAFE. There’s some silly regulations about the footprint of the vehicle. I’m sure one of the SME’s could give us more info. |
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Originally Posted By R2point0: Lol. They existed here from the 60's with the VW Beetle, and got the biggest boost after the 73 and 79 oil shocks. They were just mostly import. You are referring to subcompacts from the Big 3. Originally Posted By R2point0: Originally Posted By ske714: The main reason they ever existed here was because of CAFE. They aren't nearly as profitable as larger vehicles. A lot of them were sold at a loss, just so the automakers could sell big, high profit vehicles and still comply with CAFE. You are referring to subcompacts from the Big 3. Yes I was. I would have said so, but I was still on my first cup of coffee. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By TurboVice: Ironically I’m pretty sure one of the reasons we can’t have subcompact cars now is because of CAFE. There’s some silly regulations about the footprint of the vehicle. I’m sure one of the SME’s could give us more info. Yes. Its the reason they stopped making smaller pickup trucks like the ranger and S10. CAFE set unrealistic goals. Similar to the laws that say every bullet and every shell casing his to have a micro-stamped serial number and guns need to detect the fingerprint of the person holding it before it will fire. Lawmakers are stupid. They make laws about things they know nothing about, which is why we have laws saying that a 22lr SBR with a 4" barrel is more regulated than a belt fed semiauto 50bmg. For the folks saying they dont exist, subcompacts absolutely do exist in the rest of the world from the big name manufacturers. These cars do get hybrid levels of MPGs without the cost or complexity of the hybrid/electrical system. The big reason they aren't really seen over here is because not enough people would buy them. If they were made in the US or in north america, they would not need to be shipped and not get tarriffed as hard so they would cost less. However, in order for a big manufacturer to justify building these cars over here, they would need to be confident that they would sell a lot of them. |
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Originally Posted By L_JE: "With good gas" is an unusual qualification. Originally Posted By L_JE: Originally Posted By Ameshawki: My Crosstrek gives me 38 mpg with good gas. I happy with that. "With good gas" is an unusual qualification. Not really. I learned a long time ago that the difference in MPG between gas brands is much greater than the difference in cost per gallon. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: But none of these cars are subcompacts. Subcompacts would be things like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, etc. Those cars aren't really sold in the US anymore, hence the point of the thread. Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By ag04blast: What exactly do you want, there are plenty of small, sub-compact-ish options out there right now. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, K4, Mazda3, Prius, etc. There are still actual subcompacts available but they dont sell in real high numbers. Those listed here are small and are highly efficient - as much as the old subcompact category. Ill add, and if you want 2 seats they still make the Miata. But none of these cars are subcompacts. Subcompacts would be things like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, etc. Those cars aren't really sold in the US anymore, hence the point of the thread. In the dealership we called those *city cars*. People bought them from necessity, not desire. Reliable commuters for men for work and retired single women were the two best demographics for subcompacts - new and used. |
I was in back when we had to have shiny boots and not fuck each other in the ass.
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Certain subsets of US culture are enamoured of little euro/asian shitbox subcompacts. If they make one electric it’ll charm all the urban commuters too. Hell, just out a little car body on a golf cart… |
Not fly enough to be halal....
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Originally Posted By ag04blast: What exactly do you want, there are plenty of small, sub-compact-ish options out there right now. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, K4, Mazda3, Prius, etc. There are still actual subcompacts available but they dont sell in real high numbers. Those listed here are small and are highly efficient - as much as the old subcompact category. Ill add, and if you want 2 seats they still make the Miata. I want them to bring back the taurus sho, but throw in a 5.0 with a turbo |
The mountains are calling, and I must go. -John Muir
No matter howw much you hate the media, it's not enough.
-McGuy
No matter howw much you hate the media, it's not enough.
-McGuy
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Originally Posted By ag04blast: What exactly do you want, there are plenty of small, sub-compact-ish options out there right now. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, K4, Mazda3, Prius, etc. There are still actual subcompacts available but they dont sell in real high numbers. Those listed here are small and are highly efficient - as much as the old subcompact category. Ill add, and if you want 2 seats they still make the Miata. US automakers [and half ass "US" Dodge/chrysler] are fvcked, they basically walked away from the subcompact market. I'll be keeping my smaller Japanese vehicles for the time being, they are actually affordable to drive with FE into the low to mid 30 MPG's. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: But none of these cars are subcompacts. Subcompacts would be things like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, etc. Those cars aren't really sold in the US anymore, hence the point of the thread. Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By ag04blast: What exactly do you want, there are plenty of small, sub-compact-ish options out there right now. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, K4, Mazda3, Prius, etc. There are still actual subcompacts available but they dont sell in real high numbers. Those listed here are small and are highly efficient - as much as the old subcompact category. Ill add, and if you want 2 seats they still make the Miata. But none of these cars are subcompacts. Subcompacts would be things like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, etc. Those cars aren't really sold in the US anymore, hence the point of the thread. Which is exactly what I stated. Subcompacts make no sense. The Toyota Yaris and Corolla have very similar fuel economy. Why would you choose the Yaris. Same thing that others called out in this thread. Subcompacts really only exceeded in being cheap, but that has its limits as there are minimum floor costs on producing a vehicle. |
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Originally Posted By ske714: Not really. I learned a long time ago that the difference in MPG between gas brands is much greater than the difference in cost per gallon. Very much so, And why a sub compact, that maybe made sense in the 70s-to the early 90s, but technology gives us much larger cars capable of incredible mpg. The modern engines/transmissions are things of wonders, not to mention hybrids and of course bypass the entire issue and go all electric. I have a full size sedan that gets in the mid 30s without even trying... well except for my foot, but if I can keep it under 75 on the hwy it always amazes me. |
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Originally Posted By L_JE: "With good gas" is an unusual qualification. Originally Posted By L_JE: Originally Posted By Ameshawki: My Crosstrek gives me 38 mpg with good gas. I happy with that. "With good gas" is an unusual qualification. I have logged gas and maintenance expenses pretty much my whole driving life. It's probably a waste of time, but I was raised that way and there's apps for that, so oh well. Anyway, around 2009, I played around with this, and with fairly consistent driving habits, there was absolutely a difference in fuel economy between gas I bought at AAFES or Walmart and gas I bought at QT or P66. I didn't conduct some large scale study with tons of data, I don't know how much of a difference there might be across the major brands, but I don't buy gas from grocery stores anymore. |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
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Originally Posted By bluemax_1: A quick search shows that the only currently available models in the USA that fall under the EPA's subcompact car specs, are the Nissan Versa and Mini Cooper. |
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
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Originally Posted By ske714: They aren't nearly as profitable as larger vehicles. There's simply not enough market for small/simple/cheap economy cars to make the cost of production worthwhile in most cases. Plus Americans are fat and 1/2 the nation couldn't fit into a compact car from the 1980s. |
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Originally Posted By R2point0: Mk. 1 Golf/Rabbit. CRX. Toyota Yaris. One of my coworkers put about 350K on his driving into work as he lived quite a ways away. Thing just ran and ran and ran. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By Thallo: Bring back the Honda CRX  Should have kept both. Fun cars that handled great. Wouldn't want to get in a serious accident with one though. |
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Originally Posted By bluemax_1: Terms have meanings. Subcompact specifically refers to cars with interior volumes of 99 cubic feet and under. None of those current production models you listed fall in the subcompact car category anymore. Some of those models did, back in the 60s (like the Corolla and Civic). But as every vehicle has grown in size, they moved into the Compact car category. There was a thread a while back with examples of how much the same model cars have grown, with an OG Mini Cooper next to a current Mini Cooper (the current MC is one of the only cars sold in the USA that still falls in the subcompact car category), and an early 70s Mustang parked next to a current Mustang. There are, however, several subcompact SUV models sold in the USA (different interior volume specs for subcompact SUVs). As to whether subcompacts will make a comeback? I personally don't think so, for several reasons 1) the main reason? Americans are so friggin fat, they can't easily fit in subcompact cars. 2) there are more and more hybrids that mitigate the MPG issues. Most people would choose a larger compact hybrid that gets ~40-50mpg, than one that gets that mpg by being tiny 3) not only do most Americans not easily fit into genuine subcompact cars easily, there's also the question of safety. Like it or not, size and mass play a part in collisions. No matter how much engineering and science there is in safety features, there's less space between you and the brodozer's bumper when you're in a tiny vehicle, and a bowling ball hitting a bocce ball results in a lot more acceleration of the bocce ball. Attached File Granted, it was on Curacao, and I didn't get above 100kph, and I basically pinned the throttle off every stop sign and traffic light, but it wasn't bad. I kinda wish subcompact WOULD make a comeback. There are/were some very good ones out in the world that could be a lot of fun on surface roads in the US, if perhaps not on the highway. I really liked the most recent Ford Fiesta, for example. |
Arfcom Callsign: Meth
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
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Originally Posted By Deadtired: Granted, it was on Curacao, and I didn't get above 100kph, and I basically pinned the throttle off every stop sign and traffic light, but it wasn't bad. Originally Posted By Deadtired: Originally Posted By bluemax_1: Terms have meanings. Subcompact specifically refers to cars with interior volumes of 99 cubic feet and under. None of those current production models you listed fall in the subcompact car category anymore. Some of those models did, back in the 60s (like the Corolla and Civic). But as every vehicle has grown in size, they moved into the Compact car category. There was a thread a while back with examples of how much the same model cars have grown, with an OG Mini Cooper next to a current Mini Cooper (the current MC is one of the only cars sold in the USA that still falls in the subcompact car category), and an early 70s Mustang parked next to a current Mustang. There are, however, several subcompact SUV models sold in the USA (different interior volume specs for subcompact SUVs). As to whether subcompacts will make a comeback? I personally don't think so, for several reasons 1) the main reason? Americans are so friggin fat, they can't easily fit in subcompact cars. 2) there are more and more hybrids that mitigate the MPG issues. Most people would choose a larger compact hybrid that gets ~40-50mpg, than one that gets that mpg by being tiny 3) not only do most Americans not easily fit into genuine subcompact cars easily, there's also the question of safety. Like it or not, size and mass play a part in collisions. No matter how much engineering and science there is in safety features, there's less space between you and the brodozer's bumper when you're in a tiny vehicle, and a bowling ball hitting a bocce ball results in a lot more acceleration of the bocce ball. Granted, it was on Curacao, and I didn't get above 100kph, and I basically pinned the throttle off every stop sign and traffic light, but it wasn't bad. Contradicting statements. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By zaskar017: Will it have roll up windows and vinyl flooring too? Vinyl flooring costs more then the mouse fur bullshit seen even on 100K plus rides. It's why you don't ever see it unless it's on specced commercial rides that get rode hard and put away dirty. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Attached File It doesn't have to be little and ugly. '26 Toyota Camry, 47 mpg. |
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Originally Posted By ske714: Contradicting statements. Or in this case, slow tiny car slow on windy roads > big faster SUV slow on tiny roads you can't go fast on anyway. Sometimes it's fun having a turning circle the size of a king-size bed something best described as a orbit. |
Arfcom Callsign: Meth
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
Member
Joined:
Dec 2023
Posts:
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EE: 100% (8)
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Attached File It doesn't have to be little and ugly. '26 Toyota Camry, 47 mpg. 0 to 60, that beats a '69 383 Road Runner. |
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Originally Posted By tc556guy: Compared to what was on the road forty years ago every new car today is a subcompact |
Arfcom Callsign: Meth
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax"
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Originally Posted By ske714: Contradicting statements. Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Deadtired: Originally Posted By bluemax_1: Terms have meanings. Subcompact specifically refers to cars with interior volumes of 99 cubic feet and under. None of those current production models you listed fall in the subcompact car category anymore. Some of those models did, back in the 60s (like the Corolla and Civic). But as every vehicle has grown in size, they moved into the Compact car category. There was a thread a while back with examples of how much the same model cars have grown, with an OG Mini Cooper next to a current Mini Cooper (the current MC is one of the only cars sold in the USA that still falls in the subcompact car category), and an early 70s Mustang parked next to a current Mustang. There are, however, several subcompact SUV models sold in the USA (different interior volume specs for subcompact SUVs). As to whether subcompacts will make a comeback? I personally don't think so, for several reasons 1) the main reason? Americans are so friggin fat, they can't easily fit in subcompact cars. 2) there are more and more hybrids that mitigate the MPG issues. Most people would choose a larger compact hybrid that gets ~40-50mpg, than one that gets that mpg by being tiny 3) not only do most Americans not easily fit into genuine subcompact cars easily, there's also the question of safety. Like it or not, size and mass play a part in collisions. No matter how much engineering and science there is in safety features, there's less space between you and the brodozer's bumper when you're in a tiny vehicle, and a bowling ball hitting a bocce ball results in a lot more acceleration of the bocce ball. Granted, it was on Curacao, and I didn't get above 100kph, and I basically pinned the throttle off every stop sign and traffic light, but it wasn't bad. Contradicting statements. One is a statement of interior space. The other is a statement of performance. That's a Kia Picanto. It probably has a 67 hp 1.0L Kappa I3. Not 167 hp. 67. lol |
"Sometimes, the grass is greener because it's on a septic system."
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
"Sporterizing: The art of spending $700 on a $300 gun to make it worth $200." -GTwannabe
| Americans are fatter and bigger than Asians and Europeans. But even when Americans were not fat, they didn’t like subcompacts generally speaking. It’s something in the culture and the big vast spaces of America. Big is better has always been a cultural sticking point in our society. |