3D printers - So many choices! (Page 4 of 5)
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Originally Posted By All10X: Which printer mentioned would be suitable for a VZ-61 receiver? Asking for a friend. I don't know the dimensions on that one, but assuming it'll fit on a normal 250-250-250-ish build volume, P1S/P2S will work, with the X2D having a lot more niceties (dual extruder, heated chamber) for not much more money. If the budget is there, the H2S gets you a noticeably bigger build plate, but without the dual extruder. Dual extruder kind of only matters if you want to do two-color printing or disolvable support. |
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Originally Posted By ManMan: That's why I bought my Qidi, at least I have the option of flashing to mainline Klipper It was REALLY tempting to build a Voron... and I probably will next printer I wanted to like the Xmax at work soo badly. It kinda sucks. Part cooling sucks and it's kinda slow. It's OK with PLA and such. Anything that needs a steady environment doesn't really work even though it's enclosed. I started with a Geeetech delta printer and an Anet A8. I got really good at sweet talking that A8 into good prints. Some of those prints are still in use at my job today. I do really like the Artisan at work. It's huge and heavy though. Support seems to suck. I may end up going voron for my next personal printer. |
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Obsessed and Blob, I love and appreciate you both, but when you argue It's like listening to parents argue (I'm probably older then both of you). That said, I still hate computers and I'm happy to use Bambu printers. But I am super happy to know I have you both in my corner every time I have a question. OP, today there really isn't a wrong answer as #D printing has changed so much, but I will stick with Bambu and Prusa. As the support is over the top. (mostly from good people like Obsessed and Blob) |
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Originally Posted By SimonPhoto: Yep, which is why I went with a Bambu X1C last time around. Great print quality, and I don't have to fuck with it anymore. I've built five printers in total; I know what I'm doing. I just don't want to do it again. Originally Posted By SimonPhoto: Originally Posted By Spaceboy: Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol: My Voron 2.4 kicks ass. Just got done upgrading to CANBUS and a mosquito hotend. Great print quality, and I don't have to fuck with it anymore. I've built five printers in total; I know what I'm doing. I just don't want to do it again. This right here. I've been tinkering with 3d printers since back when you used weed wacker string and even gave up the hobby for a couple years until the bambu printers came out. I have a P1S with 5k hours on it and dont really have any plans to upgrade. Might get an H2D for the build plate size and dual nozzle but this things just works, all I've done is grease the z screws and oil the guide rods once about 1k hours ago. The Bambu printers just work. |
Disclaimer: Sometimes I say outrageous things that shouldn't be taken literally
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Oh man, now I'm caught up with the thread and this is my favorite slap fight in awhile. It helps to have the experience that troubleshooting a shitty printer provides, but I'm tired boss. ... @-Obsessed- is right |
Disclaimer: Sometimes I say outrageous things that shouldn't be taken literally
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Bambu is chineese - but works quite well. But it is difficult to print without using their cloud service - so they know everything you print. Prusa is probably good as well, but I don't have experience with them. I have had 2 problems with my Bambu. 1) did not read the fine print and tried to use a .2mm nozzle with a filament that said don't use .2mm nozzle. The other is humid filament. Depending on the material, all printers will have that problem. I have an X1C, it is pretty much completely superseded. The new P series does 95% of what the X1C does (and honestly, the one thing that the X1C is supposed to do that the P2 does not - does not work on my X1C (AI monitoring for failed prints). The new X series printers include an extra large and a 2 nozzle printer. Prusa 4 print head is better, but much more expensive. I have no problems printing with properly dried PLA (it prints even when not properly dried), PETG, ABS, TPU (omg it has to be dried), and PC. Understand that often you do need to use the right material for the job. PLA is stupid simple to print, but not very durable (and can soften in a hot car). PETG is a lot stronger, I think ABS is probably still stronger (but can give off some bad fumes), TPU is soft-with different versions having different softness (good for dog cannon projectiles), PC handles heat very well. |
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Originally Posted By mousehunter: Bambu is chineese - but works quite well. But it is difficult to print without using their cloud service - so they know everything you print. Prusa is probably good as well, but I don't have experience with them. FWIW, I have Bambu and Prusa. Both have been equally "just work" for me so far, although the Prusa did have one issue after... something like 4 or 5 years of heavy printing, I fixed it, it's been good since. I really love a LOT of what Prusa does as a company. But the sad truth right now is that Bambu is better hardware-tech at 2/3 to 1/2 the price of Prusa, which makes it a really tough sell to recommend Prusa. That makes me sad, but it's the truth. |
| Buy the printer that will scratch that itch. i'm fairly new and bought the x2d. it with a couple ams and a couple ht and the track switch. it has made everything i asked it to make from a g19 lower to a 22 suppressor depending on filament selection and availability. i recommend it highly. |
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Originally Posted By Blob: Ok I actually read a few sentences of this post and stopped here. I honestly have no clue where you came up with this?? I maybe said like two things the entire time and that was just to clarify a couple of functions that you were demonstrating. I never, ever shit on you and never, ever said I could do it better. I believe the session was recorded too, no? Care to review it and show me the clip? Or I could tag all the folks that were there and ask if they recalled these events happening. In fact after the meeting you sent me a PM thanking me for the input. Why the hell would you thank me if you thought I was shitting on you? Crazy that you would conjure up something like this. Absolutely fucking insane. Originally Posted By Blob: Originally Posted By -Obsessed-: I'm also still waiting for you to make good on your offer for free CAD classes. I only stopped because you spent the entire time shitting on mine saying you could do it better. Ok I actually read a few sentences of this post and stopped here. I honestly have no clue where you came up with this?? I maybe said like two things the entire time and that was just to clarify a couple of functions that you were demonstrating. I never, ever shit on you and never, ever said I could do it better. I believe the session was recorded too, no? Care to review it and show me the clip? Or I could tag all the folks that were there and ask if they recalled these events happening. In fact after the meeting you sent me a PM thanking me for the input. Why the hell would you thank me if you thought I was shitting on you? Crazy that you would conjure up something like this. Absolutely fucking insane. both of you need to drop it before you are removed from this thread @ Blob @-Obsessed- |
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Anyway, getting back to printing, my free Ender 3 worked perfectly out of the box ...for about 5 minutes. The Z axis driver failed mid test-print. Replacement silent board is delivered, and tonight I get to learn how to compile firmware! So far 3D printing seems to entail very little modeling, slicing, or printing, and much more time in Github and Visual Studio.  |
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Originally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Anyway, getting back to printing, my free Ender 3 worked perfectly out of the box ...for about 5 minutes. The Z axis driver failed mid test-print. Replacement silent board is delivered, and tonight I get to learn how to compile firmware! So far 3D printing seems to entail very little modeling, slicing, or printing, and much more time in Github and Visual Studio. You could probably get a used FF AD5M or something under 200 bucks. I started with an ender 3 clone... never ever going back. |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
| It’s been a minute since the Ender3 came out. Machine design and components have evolved greatly since then. Just think about the printers that were old when the 3 was the new kid on the block. Heck, I even had an Ender2. |
Carpe diem - Seize the day
Carpe per diem - Seize the expense check
Carpe per diem - Seize the expense check
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Did a search on the Ender 3 and found out that it was first released in 2018 and has 7 different versions. Some pretty outdated. So to all those who say the Ender 3 isn't a good printer, which version are you referring to? The current Ender 3s have a 300* hotend, autolevel and can go 500mm/s. Bambu Labs didn't exist until 2020 and didn't release their first printer until 2022. I bet it cost a lot more than an Ender 3 in 2022 too. |
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Originally Posted By nightrain5: Did a search on the Ender 3 and found out that it was first released in 2018 and has 7 different versions. Some pretty outdated. So to all those who say the Ender 3 isn't a good printer, which version are you referring to? The current Ender 3s have a 300* hotend, autolevel and can go 500mm/s. Bambu Labs didn't exist until 2020 and didn't release their first printer until 2022. I bet it cost a lot more than an Ender 3 in 2022 too. They are the ultimate "how cheap can we make this, how low of QC can we have, and still be allowed to sell in the USA" printer. |
Once you realize that all power comes from the credible threat of the use of deadly force, and the gov't hates you, most things become easy to understand..
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Originally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Anyway, getting back to printing, my free Ender 3 worked perfectly out of the box ...for about 5 minutes. The Z axis driver failed mid test-print. Replacement silent board is delivered, and tonight I get to learn how to compile firmware! So far 3D printing seems to entail very little modeling, slicing, or printing, and much more time in Github and Visual Studio. It’s definitely a tinkerers hobby  Maybe less so with some of the newer machines, but i still spend way more time messing around in cad or tinkering with stuff than actual print time. |
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it's not just the ender 3. ALL of the low end budget printers are pretty much crap. they can be made into good printers but the time and effort involved will easily put you into a 7-800 machine by the time you put in the time filament and parts on upgrades. there are realy 2 different kinds of makers in this hobby. those that want to tinker and get the best out a machine and love the challenge of constant upgrades and improvements. then the rest of us that just say thats a cool model think i will print it and just want to push a button and walk away. before buying a printer you need to know which one you are. my first was a tevo tornado. it worked, mostly but had more print time on upgrades than actual prints. dumped it and bought a prusa mk2, which got upgraded to a 3 and then a 3s. great printer but bought as a kit so there was a serious learning curve building it and getting it dialed in. slicers in those days were not as easy so there was a time investment in learning that as well. finally bought an x1c. i was honestly amazed. it's polished enough to be an actual consumer ready printer. only upgrades were cosmetics. 2 years later i picked up the h2c. it's simply an amazing peice of tech for the cost. in todays marketi'd just avoid cheap budget printer and spend a litle more on something ready to go with a minimal learning curve to get started. it will be much less time consuming and much less wasted time. |
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I have resin and fdm printers. I got a P1S with AMS pro last Christmas. My elegoo resin has worked really well and I have printed out THOUSANDS of dollars worth of miniatures (WH40K and D&D). My elegoo FDM printer... PLA or basic PETG stuff was ok. Definitely cannot do miniatures. Definitely had trouble with larger PETG prints. I printed an entire kitchen tables worth of dungeon tiles and a few other scenery pieces so it paid for itself. Bambu just works. Printed an archangel mini the other day then about 20 pieces of various stuff for the garage and tool storage. |
WTF is up with this bullshit anti-bayo lug crap. Was there a group of irrate japanese guys bonzai charging disabled school children and puppies that I wasn't aware of?
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: it's not just the ender 3. ALL of the low end budget printers are pretty much crap. they can be made into good printers but the time and effort involved will easily put you into a 7-800 machine by the time you put in the time filament and parts on upgrades. there are realy 2 different kinds of makers in this hobby. those that want to tinker and get the best out a machine and love the challenge of constant upgrades and improvements. then the rest of us that just say thats a cool model think i will print it and just want to push a button and walk away. before buying a printer you need to know which one you are. my first was a tevo tornado. it worked, mostly but had more print time on upgrades than actual prints. dumped it and bought a prusa mk2, which got upgraded to a 3 and then a 3s. great printer but bought as a kit so there was a serious learning curve building it and getting it dialed in. slicers in those days were not as easy so there was a time investment in learning that as well. finally bought an x1c. i was honestly amazed. it's polished enough to be an actual consumer ready printer. only upgrades were cosmetics. 2 years later i picked up the h2c. it's simply an amazing peice of tech for the cost. in todays marketi'd just avoid cheap budget printer and spend a litle more on something ready to go with a minimal learning curve to get started. it will be much less time consuming and much less wasted time. I'm #2. That's why I'm looking at the Bambu. I'm taking this weekend to see if there are any Labor Day sales or deals. I know they probably won't discount the printer, but someone might offer a filament or something extra. |
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For the money the Bambu X2D would be my choice if I was starting out and may be my next printer. The dual nozzles sold me because you can print PLA/PETG and use either PETG/PLA as support material because they don't stick to each other. This allows you to have a 0 support interface gap for good overhangs. Apparently you can use ABS for support material of PA6-CF. |
| Regarding the need for heated chambers... I'm in the middle of a PA6 print right now on my unheated P1S. I just took an IR gun to several points around the chamber.... 62C. So... right in line with the 60-65C you'd get from most heated chambers. Kind of surprised me. A heated chamber would certainly warm up faster, but not necessarily any hotter. |
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: it's not just the ender 3. ALL of the low end budget printers are pretty much crap. they can be made into good printers but the time and effort involved will easily put you into a 7-800 machine by the time you put in the time filament and parts on upgrades. there are realy 2 different kinds of makers in this hobby. those that want to tinker and get the best out a machine and love the challenge of constant upgrades and improvements. then the rest of us that just say thats a cool model think i will print it and just want to push a button and walk away. before buying a printer you need to know which one you are. my first was a tevo tornado. it worked, mostly but had more print time on upgrades than actual prints. dumped it and bought a prusa mk2, which got upgraded to a 3 and then a 3s. great printer but bought as a kit so there was a serious learning curve building it and getting it dialed in. slicers in those days were not as easy so there was a time investment in learning that as well. finally bought an x1c. i was honestly amazed. it's polished enough to be an actual consumer ready printer. only upgrades were cosmetics. 2 years later i picked up the h2c. it's simply an amazing peice of tech for the cost. in todays marketi'd just avoid cheap budget printer and spend a litle more on something ready to go with a minimal learning curve to get started. it will be much less time consuming and much less wasted time. This is 100% correct. I went through a tinkerer phase after building a RepRap and fucking with a MakerBot Rep2X, which was a major PIA. Now I only want to spend my time prototyping. I can’t stand having to tweak print settings beyond maybe messing with calibration cubes for particular filaments. I only want to push a button and go. Especially because I’ll probably have to adjust my design and reprint immediately after. If I had to constantly fuck with my printer to get the most out of it, I’d have less time to design. Bambu has the most polished offerings right now. As I stated earlier, I’ll have an H2C with a full Vortek system soon. |
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Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:there are realy 2 different kinds of makers in this hobby. those that want to tinker and get the best out a machine and love the challenge of constant upgrades and improvements. then the rest of us that just say thats a cool model think i will print it and just want to push a button and walk away. That said, my background is mechanical engineering. Code is witchcraft. Vaccum tubes are more my speed. So.. I just spent the last 3 hours trying to compile firmware and managed to get the new board stuck in an EEPROM error. It at least read the firmware properly, I think.
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Easily irritated engineer of odd things
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Originally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: I picked this up because I figured it would be a good way to learn about control systems and machine design for cheap. I work with CNC machines every day and I would like to be able to at least build a basic one. That said, my background is mechanical engineering. Code is witchcraft. Vaccum tubes are more my speed. So.. I just spent the last 3 hours trying to compile firmware and managed to get the new board stuck in an EEPROM error. It at least read the firmware properly, I think. |
Once you realize that all power comes from the credible threat of the use of deadly force, and the gov't hates you, most things become easy to understand..
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Originally Posted By nightrain5: Did a search on the Ender 3 and found out that it was first released in 2018 and has 7 different versions. Some pretty outdated. So to all those who say the Ender 3 isn't a good printer, which version are you referring to? The current Ender 3s have a 300* hotend, autolevel and can go 500mm/s. Bambu Labs didn't exist until 2020 and didn't release their first printer until 2022. I bet it cost a lot more than an Ender 3 in 2022 too. You know how I know at a glance what a bad print looks like or how I know what adjustment I need to make to get a printer working right? I had 2 years of troubleshooting Ender 3 and Ender 5 printers. You're constantly upgrading them to print better or printing parts to make them print better etc. I ended up converting my Ender 5 to a core xy machine (think mini Voron). My Ender 3 finally ended up printing decent, but I had to make a belted z mod for it. I was looking to building a Voron printer from a kit at about $750. Bambu came to the market and completely changed the market. Here was this printer you don't have to calibrate or print upgrades to because the damn thing just worked. Print quality was amazing compared to even a well tuned klipper printer. You can now get that for $399 for a P1S at Bambu. I haven't had to do a damn thing to my P1S as it just works. No more fiddling with the Z offset, running input shaper, printing some part that improves part cooling, or upgrading the hot end to print faster (I did upgrade to a E3D hot end on my P1S). For reference my Ender 5 (first printer) cost $375 and I bought my Ender 3 for $100. I probably spent $200 upgrading the Ender 5 to a ZeroG Merc 1 core XY machine (still using it). The Ender 3 I spent about $150 or so upgrading it when it was all said and done. Neither print as well as my Bambu P1S. I now also have a QIDI Plus 4 and a Plus 3 printer. I don't recommend them to new users, because they just aren't as polished out of the box as Bambu. My QIDI Plus 4 has better specs than my Bambu P1S, but you have to know what to adjust when you see something not printing right. Mainly the Z offset, but on my Bambu I haven't even had to adjust it because it's just right every single time. Now for $650 you can get a Bambu X2D which is an absolute steal for the capabilities that printer has. |
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft: Regarding the need for heated chambers... I'm in the middle of a PA6 print right now on my unheated P1S. I just took an IR gun to several points around the chamber.... 62C. So... right in line with the 60-65C you'd get from most heated chambers. Kind of surprised me. A heated chamber would certainly warm up faster, but not necessarily any hotter. On my QIDI Plus 4 printing PA6-CF I set my chamber temp to 65C, but my actual chamber temp is around 69-73C. I think the trick with nylon is to keep it above the glass transition temperature. I was having a heck of a time dialing in the bed and chamber temps, but so far 80C initial layer bed, 75C after, and 65C chamber temp has been working fine. Nozzle temps 285-300 depending what filament I'm using. I've completed several suppressor prints using those settings and one was nearly a 2 day print with no issues. |
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft: Regarding the need for heated chambers... I'm in the middle of a PA6 print right now on my unheated P1S. I just took an IR gun to several points around the chamber.... 62C. So... right in line with the 60-65C you'd get from most heated chambers. Kind of surprised me. A heated chamber would certainly warm up faster, but not necessarily any hotter. |
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Originally Posted By memsu: On my QIDI Plus 4 printing PA6-CF I set my chamber temp to 65C, but my actual chamber temp is around 69-73C. I think the trick with nylon is to keep it above the glass transition temperature. I was having a heck of a time dialing in the bed and chamber temps, but so far 80C initial layer bed, 75C after, and 65C chamber temp has been working fine. Nozzle temps 285-300 depending what filament I'm using. I've completed several suppressor prints using those settings and one was nearly a 2 day print with no issues. Originally Posted By memsu: Originally Posted By GlutealCleft: Regarding the need for heated chambers... I'm in the middle of a PA6 print right now on my unheated P1S. I just took an IR gun to several points around the chamber.... 62C. So... right in line with the 60-65C you'd get from most heated chambers. Kind of surprised me. A heated chamber would certainly warm up faster, but not necessarily any hotter. On my QIDI Plus 4 printing PA6-CF I set my chamber temp to 65C, but my actual chamber temp is around 69-73C. I think the trick with nylon is to keep it above the glass transition temperature. I was having a heck of a time dialing in the bed and chamber temps, but so far 80C initial layer bed, 75C after, and 65C chamber temp has been working fine. Nozzle temps 285-300 depending what filament I'm using. I've completed several suppressor prints using those settings and one was nearly a 2 day print with no issues. Yeah, I just finished a 10/22 chassis and stock in PA6-CF, no warping whatsoever. I had the bed set to a solid 100C for the entirety of both prints, with the nozzle at... either 280 or 290, I don't recall which. The ASA-CF I've done hasn't warped at all, either. |
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Originally Posted By 797hp: I’m still eyeing that X2D, looks like it’s $899 with the AMS pretty much everywhere which leads me to believe they have MAP pricing agreements with their vendors I’ll wait and see if anyone has them on sale for labor day They do. I was waiting for a Labor Day sale. You probably won't see a reduced price, but you might see add on packages of accessories or material. |
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft: Yeah, I just finished a 10/22 chassis and stock in PA6-CF, no warping whatsoever. I had the bed set to a solid 100C for the entirety of both prints, with the nozzle at... either 280 or 290, I don't recall which. The ASA-CF I've done hasn't warped at all, either. if you can hold out they typically have some massive sales for black friday every year |
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Originally Posted By GlutealCleft: Yeah, I just finished a 10/22 chassis and stock in PA6-CF, no warping whatsoever. I had the bed set to a solid 100C for the entirety of both prints, with the nozzle at... either 280 or 290, I don't recall which. The ASA-CF I've done hasn't warped at all, either. Originally Posted By GlutealCleft: Originally Posted By memsu: Originally Posted By GlutealCleft: Regarding the need for heated chambers... I'm in the middle of a PA6 print right now on my unheated P1S. I just took an IR gun to several points around the chamber.... 62C. So... right in line with the 60-65C you'd get from most heated chambers. Kind of surprised me. A heated chamber would certainly warm up faster, but not necessarily any hotter. On my QIDI Plus 4 printing PA6-CF I set my chamber temp to 65C, but my actual chamber temp is around 69-73C. I think the trick with nylon is to keep it above the glass transition temperature. I was having a heck of a time dialing in the bed and chamber temps, but so far 80C initial layer bed, 75C after, and 65C chamber temp has been working fine. Nozzle temps 285-300 depending what filament I'm using. I've completed several suppressor prints using those settings and one was nearly a 2 day print with no issues. Yeah, I just finished a 10/22 chassis and stock in PA6-CF, no warping whatsoever. I had the bed set to a solid 100C for the entirety of both prints, with the nozzle at... either 280 or 290, I don't recall which. The ASA-CF I've done hasn't warped at all, either. There are tricks to printing without an active chamber heater, heat soaking the bed prior to starting the print...etc. It's not that it can't be done without the chamber heater, the chamber heater makes it easier, more convenient and more consistant. There are other variables at play too, part geometry / size is a huge factor. Simple example.....a square part is going to be more prone to warp vs a cylinder. CF/GF filaments are less prone to warp vs their non-fiber filled versions, so the part that you were able to print in ASA-CF, might cause you more trouble in ASA. Warping isn't the only issue, it's just the one that's easiest to see. Chamber temp will have an impact on layer adhesion / part strength as well. At the end of the day it comes back to 2 questions. What do you want to print and how much effort do you want to put into printing? I print mostly functional prints out of engineering filaments....so an enclosed printer is a must. I can print ABS / ASA on my P2S but it takes a little more effort (pre soak the chamber via the bed)....or I can send the print to my H2D without any additional steps on my part. If I only printed with engineering filaments a few times a year, the extra effort wouldn't be a big deal vs needing to do it on most prints. TLDR: There isn't a "right" answer for everyone, it all depends on what you want to do. Personally, I didn't want the printer to be a limitation (within reason), so I bought the H2D. I bought the P2S later....but wish I would have held off a month to buy the X2D. I'll likely end up buying the X2D during holiday sales and sell my P2S. |
EP429: Today's lesson - Don't provoke ARFCOM. People will see your butthole.
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Just saw that the newest version of the Biqu Panda Breath, V1.1.2, is P2S compatible. That will get you up to a 60 degree chamber temp. $145 from Biqu. |
"Fully-loaded, safety off. This here is a recipe for unpleasantness." - Malcom Reynolds
"He's a precision-guided asshole who only deploys on deserving targets." - Grok
"He's a precision-guided asshole who only deploys on deserving targets." - Grok
I’m impatient  Attached File $949.34, shipping was free B&H are good peeps, I’ve ordered a handful of optics and red dots from them in the past I need another hobby like I need another hole in my head
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Do you see me, Toecutter?
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Originally Posted By 797hp: I’m impatient https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/498043/IMG_4394_jpeg-3822193.JPG $949.34, shipping was free B&H are good peeps, I’ve ordered a handful of optics and red dots from them in the past I need another hobby like I need another hole in my head Careful.....I bought my first printer less than 2 years ago, they tend to multiple. Went cheap with a Flashforge AD5M, quickly upgraded to the H2D....then bought the P2S (wish I would have waited until the X2D was released)
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EP429: Today's lesson - Don't provoke ARFCOM. People will see your butthole.
3D printers - So many choices! (Page 4 of 5)
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