What is this H@*D-ON everyone has against AI art?!? (Page 4 of 10)
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Originally Posted By KoolOperator: The only people outraged at "AI Art" are the liberal artists  So keep posting some AI art My daughter has dreamed of being an artist or illustrator for years. She has spent hundreds of hours practicing and sketching and painting. She is pretty good, especially considering she is still a teenager. A.I. art is crushing her dreams and making her feel worthless. Labeling all artists or people who oppose A.I. as liberal is just stupid. As a matter of fact, most of the pro A.I. people I have interacted with think that A.I. will replace vast swaths of human jobs and pave the way for UBI. That sounds like a super conservative talking point, right? |
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Originally Posted By GriswoldGuns: My daughter has dreamed of being an artist or illustrator for years. She has spent hundreds of hours practicing and sketching and painting. She is pretty good, especially considering she is still a teenager. A.I. art is crushing her dreams and making her feel worthless. Labeling all artists or people who oppose A.I. as liberal is just stupid. As a matter of fact, most of the pro A.I. people I have interacted with think that A.I. will replace vast swaths of human jobs and pave the way for UBI. That sounds like a super conservative talking point, right? Originally Posted By GriswoldGuns: Originally Posted By KoolOperator: The only people outraged at "AI Art" are the liberal artists So keep posting some AI art My daughter has dreamed of being an artist or illustrator for years. She has spent hundreds of hours practicing and sketching and painting. She is pretty good, especially considering she is still a teenager. A.I. art is crushing her dreams and making her feel worthless. Labeling all artists or people who oppose A.I. as liberal is just stupid. As a matter of fact, most of the pro A.I. people I have interacted with think that A.I. will replace vast swaths of human jobs and pave the way for UBI. That sounds like a super conservative talking point, right? There will always be a market for human artists though unfortunately likely much smaller than before. I refuse to buy things that use AI images anywhere I can. |
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Attached File I love it. |
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
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Originally Posted By gitarmac: The puzzle community says that but then they talk about how hard it is to determine something is AI. I started doing this because when my lady visits I get up late because I'm nocturnal. That leaves her with too much time on her hands until I get up. It's also been too hot to do yard work. I was unaware there are puzzle competitions. There are a bunch of YouTube channels about puzzles. I had no idea. This one was tough but not as tough as it would have been if it would have been a single color https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/7067/3152_jpg-3819264.JPG I don't think this required an "artist" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/7067/3103_jpg-3819266.JPG This one is probably AI. I don't care. I'm going to make a puzzle wall  @gitarmac I've got one for you. We gave our copy to some friends who are super competitive after we solved it: https://www.clearlyimpossiblepuzzle.com/products/the-clearly-impossible-puzzle-crystal-edition-iridescent-irregular-textured-puzzle-copy |
No more metaphors.
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Originally Posted By Hadrian: It's the people who have spent decades developing artistic skill that are freaking out about AI art, precisely because AI is (or soon will be) great. Seasoned professionals in other fields are likewise freaking out about AI surpassing their life's work. Originally Posted By Hadrian: Originally Posted By Midyew5959: great art takes skill and decades of practice. It's the people who have spent decades developing artistic skill that are freaking out about AI art, precisely because AI is (or soon will be) great. Seasoned professionals in other fields are likewise freaking out about AI surpassing their life's work. There is a distinction I wish to make here. It’s one that has no effect on the end result; but it is important regardless. Right now the artists “freaking out” about AI art are the lower level ones. Not very good ones, in other words. The biggest problem, though, and one I even have with the entire AI art enterprise, is that more and more non-art people are settling for whatever the AI gives them for their prompt. Because “they” made it together. It falsely enables the non-artistic to feel artistic. This reduction in expectations and standards is the real problem and distinction that saddens me. There are certain fields in which having an all-seeing, incredibly knowledgeable AI assistant who never rests is already revelatory. Coding is never going to be the same, for example. Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk. 
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Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
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Originally Posted By Klee: I'm ok with that since I do alot of that in my process, except it's only me and I have total control of whats produced, like everything I have ever done with art I pick the best version produced. There have been plenty of times I threw out a drawing, painting, enlarged picture because it did not meet my demands. You could change that video to be four talented people using ComfyUI and giving them the same instructions and it would be a similar outcome as the "four artists". First part of the transcript of that video, with the timestamps removed: "The best advice I have ever given to students who have studied under me has been just this. Educate yourself. Do not let me educate you. I'm reading from Robert Henry in response to a question often asked in letters from art students. However they put it, it always boils down to this. Students become confused by honest admiration for one school of painting mixed with recognition of the success and popularity of another style along with advice to follow a still different approach. Frequently a student will ask which one he should imitate. Robert Henry would advise don't imitate anyone. He says one of the great difficulties of an art student is to decide between his own natural impressions and what he thinks should be his impressions. And in another page, go forward with what you have to say, expressing things as you see them. Time after time in his art spirit, Henry says, "Be yourself." Here at the studio, we have many artists who have achieved national reputation as painters in addition to their accomplishments in the field of animation. These men know the value of Henry's advice to be yourself. " I agree with that 100% because its exactly what I am doing. I am educating myself on a new tool to use. Did I create the software stack with my own hands? Nope, just like I did not cut down a tree or mine the graphite or pound trees into pulp to make the pencil and paper I use when I draw. Using software to create something is just using a tool and like ALL tools until someone picks it up and does something with it it's just going to sit there doing nothing. Originally Posted By Klee: Originally Posted By wmagrush: How about this from the ‘50s? Four artists paint a tree: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=walt+disney+paint+a+tree&sp=-1&ghc=1&lq=0&pq=walt+disney+paint+a+tree&sc=12-24&qs=n&sk=&cvid=ED5B3098049547429C2A105C41E9B74B&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dwalt%2bdisney%2bpaint%2ba%2btree%26form%3dQBLH%26sp%3d-1%26ghc%3d1%26lq%3d0%26pq%3dwalt%2bdisney%2bpaint%2ba%2btree%26sc%3d12-24%26qs%3dn%26sk%3d%26cvid%3dED5B3098049547429C2A105C41E9B74B&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=589B03BD54EFBFEFF132589B03BD54EFBFEFF132&FORM=WRVORC&ntb=1&msockid=43754939a41711f18fcc9784151ffd1e I'm ok with that since I do alot of that in my process, except it's only me and I have total control of whats produced, like everything I have ever done with art I pick the best version produced. There have been plenty of times I threw out a drawing, painting, enlarged picture because it did not meet my demands. You could change that video to be four talented people using ComfyUI and giving them the same instructions and it would be a similar outcome as the "four artists". First part of the transcript of that video, with the timestamps removed: "The best advice I have ever given to students who have studied under me has been just this. Educate yourself. Do not let me educate you. I'm reading from Robert Henry in response to a question often asked in letters from art students. However they put it, it always boils down to this. Students become confused by honest admiration for one school of painting mixed with recognition of the success and popularity of another style along with advice to follow a still different approach. Frequently a student will ask which one he should imitate. Robert Henry would advise don't imitate anyone. He says one of the great difficulties of an art student is to decide between his own natural impressions and what he thinks should be his impressions. And in another page, go forward with what you have to say, expressing things as you see them. Time after time in his art spirit, Henry says, "Be yourself." Here at the studio, we have many artists who have achieved national reputation as painters in addition to their accomplishments in the field of animation. These men know the value of Henry's advice to be yourself. " I agree with that 100% because its exactly what I am doing. I am educating myself on a new tool to use. Did I create the software stack with my own hands? Nope, just like I did not cut down a tree or mine the graphite or pound trees into pulp to make the pencil and paper I use when I draw. Using software to create something is just using a tool and like ALL tools until someone picks it up and does something with it it's just going to sit there doing nothing. Just a quick note. I am a huge fan of Robert Henri (still don’t think ole Walt pronounced that right - pretty sure it was just “Robert Henri” or at most the French pronunciation “Robair On-ree”) and have read that particular book 6 or 8 times (I’m overdue for a re-read actually). Using AI isn’t at all what this Disney short or the Art Spirit book are about. AI isn’t just another new paint brush. It cannot originate because it doesn’t know the drive and reasoning behind the art. For example, it can’t write a song because it fell in love on a train, but it can rearrange other songs to sound like it did. Same for painting or other works. What you - the person using it, as well as anyone who enjoys it - are going to have to do, is alter your expectations to fit the outcome, not the other way around. Glad to see Robert Henri being discussed but if he was here today I’m pretty sure he’d be (in essence) saying these same words. It might seem like a fine line of distinction to some, but it’s a huge glaring gap for others. |
Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
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Originally Posted By cayman_shen: It might be cool, but don't fool yourself into thinking you "made" it. Art (discounting pr stunt sham "modern art") is a craft. History has shown that machines can replace craftsmen. Depending on your definition of quality, the machine may even create the craft "better." But if no human worked, if no person honed a skill over years, if nobody at the end of the day took pride in a job well-done, the result can never be more than a mere product. Don't be techno-serfs. There is genuine satisfaction in real creativity. Don't let them take that. Playing with AI as a toy is fun, but we should burn everything to the ground before we allow ourselves to be duped into believing it's the same as the creation of a skilled pair of hands. Originally Posted By cayman_shen: Originally Posted By corwin1968: The one experience I've had with generating AI art was via a thread here on ARFCOM. I went to the website mentioned and didn't really have any prompts in mind, so I typed in "Gates of Hell", and this is what it generated: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/42575/AI_Gates_of_Hell_jpg-3819408.JPG I think it's pretty damn cool. It might be cool, but don't fool yourself into thinking you "made" it. Art (discounting pr stunt sham "modern art") is a craft. History has shown that machines can replace craftsmen. Depending on your definition of quality, the machine may even create the craft "better." But if no human worked, if no person honed a skill over years, if nobody at the end of the day took pride in a job well-done, the result can never be more than a mere product. Don't be techno-serfs. There is genuine satisfaction in real creativity. Don't let them take that. Playing with AI as a toy is fun, but we should burn everything to the ground before we allow ourselves to be duped into believing it's the same as the creation of a skilled pair of hands. Well said! 
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Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
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Originally Posted By Frank_B: Many people are scared shitless by AI. Some of the worst are found on ham radio forums, and hams are usually thought to be on the cutting edge of technology. This almost go me banned on one forum: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/353196/AI_centaur_and_Mercury-3771323.jpg Was this true 30 or 40 years ago? The hams I know are all elderly and most of them are stuck in the past. |
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Originally Posted By M1907Sling:  Whether it's a dude holding a brush, or a dude holding a mouse, either way, it's a human directing the tool.Originally Posted By M1907Sling: Originally Posted By cash50: Bc we want to see and feel the human spirit and not some mathematical guess at what humans should want Whether it's a dude holding a brush, or a dude holding a mouse, either way, it's a human directing the tool.Part of the problem is definitely that the ease of access mean there is a high tendency to "eh, good enough". I see lots of AI generated art and video where there's a good idea with some fucked up detail of execution and they clearly just didn't care enough to do a few more refinements and get it right. I don't care either way if AI is used in art, music, movies, games, whatever. If the result is good then we can have a discussion about the societal impact of AI, etc. (in many cases it would never have been created without the increased access and productivity that the tool provided so there is no negative impact). If the result is poor then no-one cares about it regardless, and too much of it is poor with or without AI. |
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Originally Posted By GriswoldGuns: My daughter has dreamed of being an artist or illustrator for years. She has spent hundreds of hours practicing and sketching and painting. She is pretty good, especially considering she is still a teenager. A.I. art is crushing her dreams and making her feel worthless. Labeling all artists or people who oppose A.I. as liberal is just stupid. As a matter of fact, most of the pro A.I. people I have interacted with think that A.I. will replace vast swaths of human jobs and pave the way for UBI. That sounds like a super conservative talking point, right? Originally Posted By GriswoldGuns: Originally Posted By KoolOperator: The only people outraged at "AI Art" are the liberal artists So keep posting some AI art My daughter has dreamed of being an artist or illustrator for years. She has spent hundreds of hours practicing and sketching and painting. She is pretty good, especially considering she is still a teenager. A.I. art is crushing her dreams and making her feel worthless. Labeling all artists or people who oppose A.I. as liberal is just stupid. As a matter of fact, most of the pro A.I. people I have interacted with think that A.I. will replace vast swaths of human jobs and pave the way for UBI. That sounds like a super conservative talking point, right? @GriswoldGuns - honestly - and please let her know that her dreams are still valid. Being a creative generalist who can illustrate and get her point across efficiently - using AI where necessary - is where I think she can still be very effective. Adapting to new AI tools is a bit more complex than just the new version of Photoshop vs. the old one now - it’s not just commands or a new filter you can try out; AI is gaining major leaps in capability quickly. Please ping me if you’d like to talk further. If she’s talented and has a flexible, agile mind, there is still hope.  I have a family member who is really gifted artist and despite all the AI hubbub, I am still fanning those flames. I gave a talk to one of her classes about what it’s like being a creative in the world right now. I am Gen X and have been through 3 if not 4 revolutions in the creative/advertising field: desktop publishing, the Web, social media, and now AI. Every stage we’ve put more work on fewer people. This is the time you learn to delegate scut work or time-sucks to the AI so you can focus on truly creating something. A little related side note, I will have to be a little less specific due to this being semi-proprietary but someone I know who works for an agency - just had their John Henry moment. He worked side-by-side against a custom written AI tool, working on the same number of projects. He started a half hour before the AI tool … and the AI tool finished two hours ahead of him. Now, this was not creative origination work, which is a very important distinction. This was the kind of thing we creatives aren’t crazy about doing, it’s the “OK now make this 30 times but with minor tweaks” work. But it will eventually put at least one person from every department out of work once the rest of the industry catches on to this. |
Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
|
Originally Posted By cayman_shen: Thanks. It's a losing battle, but I'm still gonna fight it. Originally Posted By cayman_shen: Originally Posted By macman37: Well said! Thanks. It's a losing battle, but I'm still gonna fight it. So should we all! |
Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
 Holy shi'ite, that is fukkin' hilarious. Now THAT is art! |
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Originally Posted By Midyew5959: Tell me you don't have artistic bone in your body without telling me. I like AI art. It can make for great sources material, but at the end of the day; great art takes skill and decades of practice. Typing prompts has nothing on that kind of skill. Originally Posted By Midyew5959: Originally Posted By M1907Sling: Whether it's a dude holding a brush, or a dude holding a mouse, either way, it's a human directing the tool.I like AI art. It can make for great sources material, but at the end of the day; great art takes skill and decades of practice. Typing prompts has nothing on that kind of skill. |
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Technology is affecting everything- it's just the AI art that is the current "bad thing." I am a literature teacher. Between my house, my cabin, Andy classroom, I have thousands of books. Almost all of them are either original, first edition, first state. Some of them aren't, but they were all printed within maybe 20-30 years of their first publication date. To me, an old, original book that has been read by countless people has a soul. But, nobody really cares about my collection of Edith Wharton novels that are all original. They just download "The Age of Innocence" on a Kindle instead or "read" it in the car. Technology s easier. But, nobody is ranting about old books because technology in that arena has been normalized now. AI art is just new. Nobody really listens to Edith Wharton anymore either. Slow, normalized, metered out decline to "Ow, my Balls!"
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Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: The comment was dumb, that's why he laughed. Elon Musk could never design and build a rocket. He hires people who can. In your world, that means he is the rocket scientist, because he oversaw the ones who did the actual work  Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By M1907Sling: @TaskForce ; OK, help me out here. It's easy to mock & ridicule; is there any substance to your point? Elon Musk, Walt Disney, Robert Oppenheimer were all the brains behind massively brilliant ideas, ideas that would never have happened w/o them. Do you have a real point, or are you just a useless troll?  Elon Musk could never design and build a rocket. He hires people who can. In your world, that means he is the rocket scientist, because he oversaw the ones who did the actual work |
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Originally Posted By corwin1968: The one experience I've had with generating AI art was via a thread here on ARFCOM. I went to the website mentioned and didn't really have any prompts in mind, so I typed in "Gates of Hell", and this is what it generated: Attached File I think it's pretty damn cool. I would definitely call that art.
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For context for why I hate artists so much, it's because I have actually hired them. Not a small number, a huge number, from many talent pools, in a professional capacity, for a decade. Did you need art for something, circa 2019? Hire ten artists, immediately. Yes, that means several times the budget. Between all of them, two will give you garbage a week late, one will give you something halfway usable six weeks late, one will deliver the goods 12-18 months late, expecting immediate payment of the remainder of their commission, and they may or may not give you garbage and even if it is good it is now irrelevant. The rest will never be heard from again. Now and then one will threaten to sue you for no reason at all, send you emails about how you need to stop sending their GPS coordinates to their ex or whatever, ask for bail money in exchange for completing the work that is overdue, steal someone else's work and claim it as their own, and all manner of other crazy bullshit. Now and then the halfway skilled ones that delivered something decent will pop back up demanding more money for the work they already delivered, threatening to sue about it, despite signing it over when delivered. People bitch about dealing with coders, I would rather deal with an entire cargo ship of starving coders with pitchforks than a single artist. I can deal with autism, I cannot deal with professional grade schizophrenia. As soon as AI could replace artists, I did, entirely, as a matter of policy. Meatbags keep walking, this is a clanker job now. Since then every art need has been met on time, under budget, and with higher quality for the actual needs. No drama, no insanity, and no "my cat divorced me and now I'm homeless send $$$" emails. It wasn't about the money. It was the fact that the field is unreliable. I'm sure the five artists on this planet that treat their work as actual work get snatched up with full time gigs at big corporations and probably made bank. For every one of those, there were millions of useless flakes. It makes sense, creativity and routine are typically opposite ends of a slider on the human character creation page. |
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Originally Posted By M855Bukkake: For context for why I hate artists so much, it's because I have actually hired them. Not a small number, a huge number, from many talent pools, in a professional capacity, for a decade. Did you need art for something, circa 2019? Hire ten artists, immediately. Yes, that means several times the budget. Between all of them, two will give you garbage a week late, one will give you something halfway usable six weeks late, one will deliver the goods 12-18 months late, expecting immediate payment of the remainder of their commission, and they may or may not give you garbage and even if it is good it is now irrelevant. The rest will never be heard from again. Now and then one will threaten to sue you for no reason at all, send you emails about how you need to stop sending their GPS coordinates to their ex or whatever, ask for bail money in exchange for completing the work that is overdue, steal someone else's work and claim it as their own, and all manner of other crazy bullshit. Now and then the halfway skilled ones that delivered something decent will pop back up demanding more money for the work they already delivered, threatening to sue about it, despite signing it over when delivered. People bitch about dealing with coders, I would rather deal with an entire cargo ship of starving coders with pitchforks than a single artist. I can deal with autism, I cannot deal with professional grade schizophrenia. As soon as AI could replace artists, I did, entirely, as a matter of policy. Meatbags keep walking, this is a clanker job now. Since then every art need has been met on time, under budget, and with higher quality for the actual needs. No drama, no insanity, and no "my cat divorced me and now I'm homeless send $$$" emails. It wasn't about the money. It was the fact that the field is unreliable. I'm sure the five artists on this planet that treat their work as actual work get snatched up with full time gigs at big corporations and probably made bank. For every one of those, there were millions of useless flakes. It makes sense, creativity and routine are typically opposite ends of a slider on the human character creation page. I’ve worked in the field for over 3 decades (egads, pushing 4). That is something that you’d find out once and figure out a better approach. Not questioning your experience, but as someone who dealt with external illustration and graphic design houses on an agency basis, if any one of those ten flaked out, the news would proliferate quickly. There is no time nor patience for such behavior. Also, I was here in ‘19, I could have helped you find qualified non-Fiverr trash help. Anyway, the ratio of good to bad is better than your experience is. Something else played in to it, and not to point fingers, but you not knowing where to find talent with a good reputation may have been a big factor. |
Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
|
Originally Posted By macman37: I’ve worked in the field for over 3 decades (egads, pushing 4). That is something that you’d find out once and figure out a better approach. Not questioning your experience, but as someone who dealt with external illustration and graphic design houses on an agency basis, if any one of those ten flaked out, the news would proliferate quickly. There is no time nor patience for such behavior. Also, I was here in ‘19, I could have helped you find qualified non-Fiverr trash help. Anyway, the ratio of good to bad is better than your experience is. Something else played in to it, and not to point fingers, but you not knowing where to find talent with a good reputation may have been a big factor. Originally Posted By macman37: Originally Posted By M855Bukkake: For context for why I hate artists so much, it's because I have actually hired them. Not a small number, a huge number, from many talent pools, in a professional capacity, for a decade. Did you need art for something, circa 2019? Hire ten artists, immediately. Yes, that means several times the budget. Between all of them, two will give you garbage a week late, one will give you something halfway usable six weeks late, one will deliver the goods 12-18 months late, expecting immediate payment of the remainder of their commission, and they may or may not give you garbage and even if it is good it is now irrelevant. The rest will never be heard from again. Now and then one will threaten to sue you for no reason at all, send you emails about how you need to stop sending their GPS coordinates to their ex or whatever, ask for bail money in exchange for completing the work that is overdue, steal someone else's work and claim it as their own, and all manner of other crazy bullshit. Now and then the halfway skilled ones that delivered something decent will pop back up demanding more money for the work they already delivered, threatening to sue about it, despite signing it over when delivered. People bitch about dealing with coders, I would rather deal with an entire cargo ship of starving coders with pitchforks than a single artist. I can deal with autism, I cannot deal with professional grade schizophrenia. As soon as AI could replace artists, I did, entirely, as a matter of policy. Meatbags keep walking, this is a clanker job now. Since then every art need has been met on time, under budget, and with higher quality for the actual needs. No drama, no insanity, and no "my cat divorced me and now I'm homeless send $$$" emails. It wasn't about the money. It was the fact that the field is unreliable. I'm sure the five artists on this planet that treat their work as actual work get snatched up with full time gigs at big corporations and probably made bank. For every one of those, there were millions of useless flakes. It makes sense, creativity and routine are typically opposite ends of a slider on the human character creation page. I’ve worked in the field for over 3 decades (egads, pushing 4). That is something that you’d find out once and figure out a better approach. Not questioning your experience, but as someone who dealt with external illustration and graphic design houses on an agency basis, if any one of those ten flaked out, the news would proliferate quickly. There is no time nor patience for such behavior. Also, I was here in ‘19, I could have helped you find qualified non-Fiverr trash help. Anyway, the ratio of good to bad is better than your experience is. Something else played in to it, and not to point fingers, but you not knowing where to find talent with a good reputation may have been a big factor. Executive decision above me was to hire direct, if we had gone through an agency or such it would have improved the talent pool considerably. However these were generally quite minor works, we could probably have sourced the required talent from a kindergarten if child labor was legal. That was the thing that baffled me most, the bar was really, really low. Yet the vast majority of artists have Main Character Syndrome. I had far less trouble sourcing minor code jobs from randos than art. Not because the coders didn't submit garbage at a high rate, but because they generally went away without drama when told their work did not meet the requirements, which massively reduced the Oversight-Per-Unit-Of-Getting-Shit-Done coefficient. If your career was herding artists, my hats off to you. Cats would be easier. |
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Originally Posted By M855Bukkake: Executive decision above me was to hire direct, if we had gone through an agency or such it would have improved the talent pool considerably. However these were generally quite minor works, we could probably have sourced the required talent from a kindergarten if child labor was legal. That was the thing that baffled me most, the bar was really, really low. Yet the vast majority of artists have Main Character Syndrome. I had far less trouble sourcing minor code jobs from randos than art. Not because the coders didn't submit garbage at a high rate, but because they generally went away without drama when told their work did not meet the requirements, which massively reduced the Oversight-Per-Unit-Of-Getting-Shit-Done coefficient. If your career was herding artists, my hats off to you. Cats would be easier. Originally Posted By M855Bukkake: Originally Posted By macman37: Originally Posted By M855Bukkake: For context for why I hate artists so much, it's because I have actually hired them. Not a small number, a huge number, from many talent pools, in a professional capacity, for a decade. Did you need art for something, circa 2019? Hire ten artists, immediately. Yes, that means several times the budget. Between all of them, two will give you garbage a week late, one will give you something halfway usable six weeks late, one will deliver the goods 12-18 months late, expecting immediate payment of the remainder of their commission, and they may or may not give you garbage and even if it is good it is now irrelevant. The rest will never be heard from again. Now and then one will threaten to sue you for no reason at all, send you emails about how you need to stop sending their GPS coordinates to their ex or whatever, ask for bail money in exchange for completing the work that is overdue, steal someone else's work and claim it as their own, and all manner of other crazy bullshit. Now and then the halfway skilled ones that delivered something decent will pop back up demanding more money for the work they already delivered, threatening to sue about it, despite signing it over when delivered. People bitch about dealing with coders, I would rather deal with an entire cargo ship of starving coders with pitchforks than a single artist. I can deal with autism, I cannot deal with professional grade schizophrenia. As soon as AI could replace artists, I did, entirely, as a matter of policy. Meatbags keep walking, this is a clanker job now. Since then every art need has been met on time, under budget, and with higher quality for the actual needs. No drama, no insanity, and no "my cat divorced me and now I'm homeless send $$$" emails. It wasn't about the money. It was the fact that the field is unreliable. I'm sure the five artists on this planet that treat their work as actual work get snatched up with full time gigs at big corporations and probably made bank. For every one of those, there were millions of useless flakes. It makes sense, creativity and routine are typically opposite ends of a slider on the human character creation page. I’ve worked in the field for over 3 decades (egads, pushing 4). That is something that you’d find out once and figure out a better approach. Not questioning your experience, but as someone who dealt with external illustration and graphic design houses on an agency basis, if any one of those ten flaked out, the news would proliferate quickly. There is no time nor patience for such behavior. Also, I was here in ‘19, I could have helped you find qualified non-Fiverr trash help. Anyway, the ratio of good to bad is better than your experience is. Something else played in to it, and not to point fingers, but you not knowing where to find talent with a good reputation may have been a big factor. Executive decision above me was to hire direct, if we had gone through an agency or such it would have improved the talent pool considerably. However these were generally quite minor works, we could probably have sourced the required talent from a kindergarten if child labor was legal. That was the thing that baffled me most, the bar was really, really low. Yet the vast majority of artists have Main Character Syndrome. I had far less trouble sourcing minor code jobs from randos than art. Not because the coders didn't submit garbage at a high rate, but because they generally went away without drama when told their work did not meet the requirements, which massively reduced the Oversight-Per-Unit-Of-Getting-Shit-Done coefficient. If your career was herding artists, my hats off to you. Cats would be easier. Only part of my job was evaluating artists and art. As a creative (art director at the time, I've worn a lot of hats) at a large agency we didn't have time to deal with that crap. We worked with good people, got an estimate and established timeframes and expectations up front, and we held them to it. If they were flaky or cantankerous or didn't work out, we never used them again. You hold the cards, only big names could get away with that kind of behavior, and in the rare times that happened, we knew what we were getting in to. A chunk of this job as a professional is dodging, managing, or outright deflating egos. Just like any other job that has egos, if you can back it up, you can get away with more. And a humble ego that is also talented is a joy to work with. Also any metropolitan area will have graphic design and illustration studios you could call up and get a rep out to assist (and hold their own people accountable!) but I did see that you were told not to go that route. Weird, because that management decision hosed you just as bad as the bad art types you attracted. Where did you put the word out for the work? |
Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
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Originally Posted By M855Bukkake: This is a $6.2 million work of modern art: https://i.imgur.com/LQ3e6PR.jpeg Modern art is even less human than AI generated art. Everyone involved is a soulless prediction engine that drives a gray car. At least the AI tries to imitate good human art. Hitler was an artist, and is basically the perfect embodiment of their humanity. I look forward to a post-artist future. It's the best aspect of the rise of AI, the complete elimination of a parasitic drain on human endeavors. So yeah, modern art jumped the shark. |
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Originally Posted By TowerIQ: Not close. You missed the entire essence of Lewis's meaning. The creators of AI have stolen the combined works of countless authors also. Lewis's point being this "AI art" is all highly advanced digital plagiarism at industrial scale. Probably not because somewhere in its little 1's and 0's it also stole what people liked. Maybe "artists" should consider that. |
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Originally Posted By RayFromJersey: The only thing about AI "art" that annoys me is when people/businesses/governments use it for flyers and such. An example of what I'm talking about: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/394169/IMG_5500_jpeg-3819185.JPG All of those flyers look the same.......I think that is one of the biggest turn-offs to me |
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Originally Posted By Ilikepieman: Which would explain why so many people are obsessed with it. Ai generated content feels soulless and fake, like most of society Much of what artists do is design things like logos, advertising, and the like. Few artists create masterpieces for museums. I think they are graphic artists. There are graphic artists that design puzzles. AI can easily replace them. There is still room for the banana on the wall. Ohh I just thought of another "artist". Remember the check that masterbated with a can of beans? It was called "performance art" I think. I saw it and it was nuts. I guess her job is safe lol |
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: I don't think there is any one answer. Some people prefer art generated by people because their concept of art includes the product, the process, and the skill. Some people prefer art generated by people because of the economic and social reasons you mention. Some people prefer art generated by people because the history and context in which the art was generated is important to them. Art is inherently a subjective experience, so it's up to the individual to enjoy it as they see fit. 100% Well said. |
All men are created equal. All guns are not.
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Originally Posted By MapMonger: @gitarmac I've got one for you. We gave our copy to some friends who are super competitive after we solved it: https://www.clearlyimpossiblepuzzle.com/products/the-clearly-impossible-puzzle-crystal-edition-iridescent-irregular-textured-puzzle-copy  The only way I was able to do the one pictured is because there was a gradient which really increases the easyness. I want to try a murder mystery one though. |
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Some of it is garbage some of it is cool, much like human made art. If you want the real answer, the hate comes from the fact that it took no talent or creativity beyond telling the AI generally what you want. There is not and cannot be any "soul" to what AI makes. If you want art just because you want something cool to look at, then AI may appeal. Human made art takes real ability/talent or it can "have something to say", and you like it for these reasons as well as just aesthetics, anything other than human made art probably won't interest you. BTW, we say AI "art" but it is not art. Art takes a mind, thought, and at least some level of ability and creativity. AI does not make art. It generates images. |
The more the government tells us we should not do a thing or have a thing, the more crucial it is that we do those things and have those things.
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Originally Posted By PikeSlayer: Technology is affecting everything- it's just the AI art that is the current "bad thing." I am a literature teacher. Between my house, my cabin, Andy classroom, I have thousands of books. Almost all of them are either original, first edition, first state. Some of them aren't, but they were all printed within maybe 20-30 years of their first publication date. To me, an old, original book that has been read by countless people has a soul. But, nobody really cares about my collection of Edith Wharton novels that are all original. They just download "The Age of Innocence" on a Kindle instead or "read" it in the car. Technology s easier. But, nobody is ranting about old books because technology in that arena has been normalized now. AI art is just new. Nobody really listens to Edith Wharton anymore either. Slow, normalized, metered out decline to "Ow, my Balls!" I also teach literature. I definitely rant about books vs Kindle. And don't start me on "reading" audio books. Sometimes the medium matters. Reading on a screen is a sterile experience. Listening to a book is not the same as reading. It just isn't. Does the book have to be old and collectible as you described? No, but old books DO have a certain intangible charm for sure. As for AI in my class? Fuck it, we're cooked, as the kids say. The next generation won't be able to bang two rocks together and the tech geniuses will enslave them. I'm not normally a doomer, but AI is a social atom bomb. People are plenty dumb enough already without turning us all into the lazy fatsos from Wall-E. Your "Ow, My Balls!" comment is spot on. Any educator can see we're in an intellectual crisis. |
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Isn't AI art millions of pieces of art stolen and spliced together? Correct me if I'm wrong. Btw, my avatar is AI. Couldn't find a picture of what I wanted. Inspired by the not AI music:  George Washington |
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Originally Posted By macman37: There is a distinction I wish to make here. It's one that has no effect on the end result; but it is important regardless. Right now the artists "freaking out" about AI art are the lower level ones. Not very good ones, in other words. The biggest problem, though, and one I even have with the entire AI art enterprise, is that more and more non-art people are settling for whatever the AI gives them for their prompt. Because "they" made it together. It falsely enables the non-artistic to feel artistic. This reduction in expectations and standards is the real problem and distinction that saddens me. There are certain fields in which having an all-seeing, incredibly knowledgeable AI assistant who never rests is already revelatory. Coding is never going to be the same, for example. Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk. I have used AI to tackle a spreadsheet function I was unable to figure out. The big problem was getting the syntax correct. AI helped with that but that help only consisted of putting quotation marks in the right spot. Once I had the right formula I needed to put it in 20 cells on 12 months for 2 years. AI was of no help here. I wound up putting it in a word document and copying and pasting in 24 columns by searching and replacing the month. AI somehow missed that. I think I could have used a macro but that's above my pay grade and apparently AI too. I also like to make small changes and I rigorously test them so I didn't pursue the macro. I used chatgpt to do a letter. At first it sounded good but when I read it the next day I realized it was just a bunch of gibberish. Every time Ive used chatgpt it was just a tool to refine wording. It's that use of AI that pisses me off the most. It's so obvious when you hear the AI speech pattern. I see commercials that are obviously made with AI, they have the exact same way of speaking. But it's getting better. I was watching a hiking channel on YouTube. This one was really interesting because it involved an "influencer" with millions of followers and a popular location. I was suspicious because it's something I would have heard about elsewhere. I did some digging and found that it was all fake. The channel was fake and the "stories" were all entirely fictitious. But the takeaway is that the "host" was fake too. But the host wasn't a perfect AI person like usual. There was something weird about the background but those can be changed when people do video calls and stuff. The fake person speaking had kind of a lopsided grin, didn't speak in perfect sentences, and had the imperfections of a real person. So that's kind of where we are headed. Fake art is just the tip of the iceberg. |
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Originally Posted By gitarmac: Inanimate objects don't have a soul. Much of what artists do is design things like logos, advertising, and the like. Few artists create masterpieces for museums. I think they are graphic artists. There are graphic artists that design puzzles. AI can easily replace them. There is still room for the banana on the wall. Ohh I just thought of another "artist". Remember the check that masterbated with a can of beans? It was called "performance art" I think. I saw it and it was nuts. I guess her job is safe lol Originally Posted By gitarmac: Originally Posted By Ilikepieman: Which would explain why so many people are obsessed with it. Ai generated content feels soulless and fake, like most of society Much of what artists do is design things like logos, advertising, and the like. Few artists create masterpieces for museums. I think they are graphic artists. There are graphic artists that design puzzles. AI can easily replace them. There is still room for the banana on the wall. Ohh I just thought of another "artist". Remember the check that masterbated with a can of beans? It was called "performance art" I think. I saw it and it was nuts. I guess her job is safe lol You're highlighting an important point... there is a sliding scale here. Not all artists are good. It's not a uniform thing. And some AI art is pretty neat actually. We all need to be on the lookout for bad art no matter who makes it. |
Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
|
YOU didn’t CREATE shit. 😂 Originally Posted By Klee: Not me. I created these with ComfyUI on my RTX 3090 Ti. Yes I created it, the AI model didn't do shit until I told it what to do. It is just a tool and depending on who is using it makes a huge difference, some no talent random person using AI yea it will be slop but someone with a little talent can create really good stuff with AI. https://i.imgur.com/2IZj4He.png https://i.imgur.com/TI3HuA3.png https://i.imgur.com/qayKvUb.png https://i.imgur.com/lJG1khU.png https://i.imgur.com/q7KnrLI.png https://i.imgur.com/dGUvYpZ.png https://i.imgur.com/vB77BjN.png https://i.imgur.com/euvODHA.png https://i.imgur.com/n0Vrkjl.png I also created GD's perfect woman. https://i.imgur.com/HJfagDx.png |
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Demanding that all the art or music you patronize is sourced from a human, like yourself, or declaring an overt preference for such … has the same vibes and makes about as much sense as people that demand or prefer all the products and businesses they buy from be owned/produced by people of the same sex and race as themselves. HBCUs Black owned businesses Women owned businesses LGBT owned businesses etc… Yes, all you anti-clanker boomers come off like that.  If art, music, and products designed or created by someone/something dissimilar to yourself accomplishes the purpose for which they were created… why does their provenance matter? |
Joined:
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Originally Posted By Moon-Watcher: Well, here's some great news for CHOMOS: AI kiddie porn can be legal. I mean, you can’t spend decades justifying the prosecution of CP because the very production of CP involves the nonconsensual victimization and violation of rights of vulnerable persons… And then get up in arms when the courts say that CP produced in the complete absence of any victimization or violation of rights is not subject to prosecution. It’s completely fucked, but the recent ruling is consistent with the victimization-logic used to convict CP producers/users in the past. If the public wants victimless-CP prosecuted, which is more than perfectly reasonable, looks like Congress needs to pass a law banning it. Should be easy. |
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Originally Posted By Ohio_Man: Demanding that all the art or music you patronize is sourced from a human, like yourself, or declaring an overt preference for such … has the same vibes and makes about as much sense as people that demand or prefer all the products and businesses they buy from be owned/produced by people of the same sex and race as themselves. HBCUs Black owned businesses Women owned businesses LGBT owned businesses etc… Yes, all you anti-clanker boomers come off like that. If art, music, and products designed or created by someone/something dissimilar to yourself accomplishes the purpose for which they were created… why does their provenance matter? That’s got to be the worst analogy I’ve ever seen someone try to draw here. |
Let's Go Red Wings!
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
Beautifying the world one logo at a time since 1993.
Soli Deo Gloria
|
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: I think it's cool the Minotaur dude is wearing what looks like Minotaur-fur briefs. Here's a better look at him:  Note the mistake. This was before I signed up, so when I left the website before catching it, the image disappeared from Grok's records. I did save it beforehand, though. Here's another bull, giving a lecture on Maxwell's Equations:  The device in his left hand is a UHF dipole antenna. |
"...Capitalism...shares its blessings unequally; ...Socialism...shares its miseries equally."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
What is this H@*D-ON everyone has against AI art?!? (Page 4 of 10)
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