Posted: 5/20/2004 8:39:54 AM EDT
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To me its the same thing. If the Pro choice people are going to call NOT having an abortion "pro-life" then the other side of that coin would call the pro choice ppl "pro-death"? I got into an argument with my GF about this and I still think those that are so called "pro-choice" should be called the opposite of the they call the pro lifers. I am not anti-abortion either. But call a duck what it is. A fucking duck. |
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I am on the pro-life side of the argument. I call those on the other side "pro-choice", as a courtesy. I am willing to call someone by the name they prefer to be called. If they choose not to return that courtesy, then there's little hope that actual debate will generate anything other than noise. If they do return it, then perhaps something can come of the discussion. I gain no points in any argument if I start out calling them "Baby-killing murdering selfish brats". Similarly, they gain none with me by calling me "Self-righteous hypocritical oppressive woman-hater". In the case of firearms, I (and others here) are "pro-gun". Those who are "anti-gun" don't seem (as far as I've seen) to have settled on a more "positive" name for themselves. "All names will soon be restored to their proper owners. In the meantime we will not dispute about noises." -Aslan, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, C.S. Lewis |
The "right to choose" comes into play LONG before an abortion is even a possibility. The woman has a right to choose not to have sex, and the right to choose to have "safe" sex knowing what the consequences can be. When an abortion is a possibility, the choice was made some time before. |
So why do the Pro-choice people have to change their name. Why don't the so called pro-life people call themselves "anti-choice". Just as fair. |
I'm not sure how this has any relation to the discussion. Seems to more aply to idiot liberals who are agains the death penalty for murderers but FOR the death penalty for babies who have the audacity of resulting from the sexual activity of others. |
Sorry I'm late, I had to stop and pick up my robe from the cleaners. I am against abortion, except under the most extreme circumstances. And, if it were up to me, performing or recieveing a PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION would be a capital offense. You cannot convince me that there is any medical reason why a woman must terminate a pregenancy that she has carried on for more than 4 months, must be terminated by giving birth to all but the head of the baby, then crushing the skull of the baby and sucking it's brains out with a tube. That said, the choir will now perform hymm #192 "The Old Rugged Cross" |
That's my question. How can you be "pro life" and still suport the death penalty? If all life is sacred, how can you justify exicution. I think they should reorganize the sides. If you are pro choice, you now have to be for the death penalty, and if you are pro life you are against the death penalty. At least then it makes sense! I think it's important to have consistant views on life... 
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If they are "Pro-Choice", why do they (the rabid militants) get upset when somebody chooses not to get an abortion? If it's about choice, why do they fight against informed consent laws? Also, notice how the argument centers on the "right to choose", but avoids any detailed discussion of what exactly is being chosen. |
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If the woman can demonstrate that the abortion destroys only cells, tissues and organs that are genetically HERS and hers alone, then I'd agree with the mindless mantra "a woman's body=a woman's choice". But abortion is NOT about the woman's body - it's about killing the growing fetus inside her. So yeah, "Pro-Choice" = "Pro-Death". |
I get that argument from the pro baby killing crowd a lot. I simply tell them that I'll trade them a ban on the death penalty for a ban on abortion. That shuts em up quick. They don't care about death row inmates. They only care about killing babies. |
Dump her. NOW. Only bad will come from this relationship. You are fundamentally incompatible. |
It can best be summed up like this: Conservatives oppose killing babies who have not had a chance to live their lives yet, and support killing those who have had the chance to live their lives and have blown that chance by murdering someone. Liberals oppose killing people who have used their lives to murder other people, but support killing babies who have not had the opportunity to live their lives. I support killing Liberals.  (JOKING)
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It is because life is sacred that abortion is wrong and putting people to death for particularly heinous crimes (e.g. murder) is right. It comes down to Genesis 1:26-27, and about people being made "in God's image". God clearly states that murderers (and those who commit a few other very serious crimes - all of which are personal crimes, not property crimes) should be put to death, and this passage explains why. Each of us carries this "image". Murder shoots holes in/stabs/poisons/etcs this image, and therefore a private crime against a person is, by extension, the same crime against God. To murder a man is not really any different than an attempt to murder God. It is another thing entirely for duly constituted authorities, following an investigation and following God's plan, which includes the death penalty for serious crimes against another person to take a criminal's life. This isn't a private or personal act any more, and it's not done for personal gain , from personal convenience, or from personal emotion. It's done because God's honor is at stake - and (though it sounds trite), it really is all about God, not us. (Yes, "duly constituted authorities" sometimes screw it up. That doesn't mean that the principle is wrong, any more than math errors mean that Accountants are all crooks.) Abortion is a very private act, against a person who is to be killed because of geography, and who will make no (unrefuseable) biological claims against the mother after birth. Except in rare cases, the baby consitutes no real threat to the mother's life. In most cases - and even the pro-choice folks seem to agree - the baby is killed because of convenience. "She's not ready" or "She can't afford it" or "It would ruin her life" or "The baby would have a terrible childhood" are the usual excuses, but these are all ways of saying, "It's inconvenient". Convenience, as an excuse for taking a human life, seems an awful lot like first-degree murder. I can't make it any clearer. |
I agree.  Also, M4_Aiming_at_U, dump your girlfriend. You are NOT compatible, and it will lead to trouble later on when you decide to have kids, and she decides she doesn't want to take responsibilities for her actions. |
+1 |
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well, because once in a while we actually get to talk to someone that can overlook their own blind following and see it for the word choices actually used pro-death - that I support the killing of every baby no matter what, I heard someone say lets kill all unborn babies, and I thought to myself, "Yes, self, that is what I believe" see this doesn't describe me very well does it? pro-choice - Now personal feelings aside, I recognize the right of the person to choose (see there, hence the pro-choice) what they will do, either carry the baby to term and deliver it, or not, but I recognize that it is their choice, not yours. you see even if we outlaw it and make it illeagal no matter what, you cannot force someone to make a choice. Some will still choose to go the dangerous illeagal way (or just go to mexico or somewhere where they can. to me its the same shit as calling someone pro-gun, pro-murder, because thats all they can be used for, be it animal or man, so why not paint them all with that wide brush. edited to fix spelling and punc. |
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Fuck the children...kill them all as far as I care. You guys shouldn't care either..after all they just cost money, are a drain on society, and we can barely feed the kids on the earth we already have. Hell, all you people that support abortion should kill any kids you have now, after all, if you don't love them enough when they are inside the womb I doubt you love them all that much now. So kill them and be done with it. Or let your wife deside, not your 16 y.o. son afterall because he came from her. Sgtar15 |
Here....let me help you up after stumbling on your own analogy. Guns are SELDOM used for killing. In my guns case, NEVER. Abortion is ONLY used for killing. |
I wouldn't hijack M4_Aiming_at_U's thread for anything. And most wouldn't even understand. But I am on the verge of tears. |
'till my trophies at last I lay down, and I'll cling to the old rugged cross |
THey MADE their coice when they spread their legs. After that, it is NOT their choice anymore. As a society, we DO have a right to STOP one person from infringing on the rights of others. Especially when they exercise a "right" that neither exists, and if it did, it doesn't belong to them. |
thanks for the hand there g-man, thats exactly my point, not all guns kill, so it would be unfair to say that pro-gun = pro-murder how about this one. abortion is only used for killing, but the choice can go both ways, they can choose to abort or they can choose to carry the child, seems to me only one of those ends in death, it is fine by me if you wan't to call pro-abortion believers pro-death because that would be correct. but someone who still believes in choices (two paths) that would be incorrect. |
When a bank robber robs a bank, it doesn't make him no longer a bank robber cuz he walked by a bank and not rob it. ANYONE who would use something that ONLY kills is pro-death, regardless of what OTHER choices they make. |
So your saying that anyone that even considered an abortion be it for however long, a second, or a week is a murderer. hmmmmm. thats pretty interesting. any good ideas on how to control thought? laws won't make that happen. |
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To all saying I should dump her: How are we not compatible? I believe that wimminz have a right to abortion up to the 2nd month. So does she. She and I just don’t agree what those who believe in a abortion should be called. Go back and read my post more carefully!  |
What about pregnancy as a result of rape? Hoppy  8420
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Then she should go to hospital right after that. That is an exception. |
"As a man thinks in his heart, so is he." What ELSE can you say about someone who wants to murder someone else NOT to defend their own lives, NOT in the heat of a life threatening moment, but merely for their own convenience? And we're NOT talking about people who give it a passing thought, as you are tying to paint this issue. We're talking about people who come on to Arfcom, under no duress whatsoever, and state that is their policy, after having given it thought for several months. |
It is logically dishonest to EVER frame the abortion debate in those terms. That is SUCH a rarity, it should not even be considered as part of the abortion debate. But OK, I'll bite - Is a rape solved, eased, or undone by murder??? No. And EVERYONE knows that is the truth. |
Don't try to say that I am reading you wrong, or that im painting this issue, I was simply asking for clarification of something you said earlier so as not to make the mistake of putting words into your mouth. As for the second part is that you being clever? are you referring to me? Im not sure how to take that. Regardless, I find your views interesting even if they differ from my own. |