Posted: 2/22/2004 7:22:36 PM EDT
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Over the weekend, I had my first chance to handle and fire a Springfield 1903. I LOVED it. More recoil than my M1, certainly, but I want one. So, can you folks point me to good sources of info on the 1903/1903A3 with respect to: 1. Maintenance, operation, cleaning, etc. 2. Difference between 1903 and 1903A3 3. Price ranges to look for in a good shooter 4. What to look for in gauging parts, bore condition, wear etc. in a potential rifle for purchase I want one of these in my collection, and I would be thankful for any links/advice/resources given for a newbie to the 1903. BTW-Looked in the armory, and couldn't find any particular forum that this question might fit in, so I'm asking in GD. Thanks. |
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I bought one two years ago from the CMP - a Springfield Armory M1903 MkI. They're a bolt action rifle for goodness sake - nothing really tricky or involved with maintenance, cleaning ... or operation (rotate bolt repeat! [:)] You do want to avoid very early '03's as they were heat treated by eye ... when they looked right they were pulled. There have been known to be 'soft' early numbers when the guy who knew what he was doing was on a break or something. These can be dangerous and shouldn't be used for shooting. Mine was a real beauty once I got 85 years worth of cosmoline off the thing. It took weeks and weeks of letting the wood warm and wiping it down. The thing is a real shooter. I've yet to put it on paper but I can hit a 15 inch gong at +1200 feet which is not too bad for an antique shooter (the rifle not me). I let the CMP do the gauging and bore for me. Heard told that they hand pick them for the military ... worked for me for my M1 Garand too. |
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I brought one on saturday at the fun show total impulse buy. I had done no research on them other than to know that someday i wanted one. it's a remington built 1903A3, dates to 1942 looks in great shape, haven't shot it yet found this site after I got home from the show and I was trying to take it apart to inspect/clean it (it didn't need cleaning but I always clean a gun when I first get it) [url]http://www.surplusrifle.com/03a3/operations.asp[/url] found this site when I got my M1, has dates by serial number [url]http://m1903.com/sn/usmildates.htm[/url] how much worse is the recoil versus an M1? if you've ever shot mosin nagant M44 how does it compare? |
| '03's are very nice rifles that are over priced for what they are. All they are is a mauser knock off made by the U.S.government in 30-06Springfield. If you got a Yugo M-48 you'd have about the same thing only in 8x57mm mauser but then you'd only pay about $125 for it instead of the $700+ that I've seen '03's go for. Not trying to dis the rifle, it's just I don't think it's worth that much. |
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tc6969- Thanks for the link. Paul- Thanks. I'll do some googling and reading to find out about the "soft" early rifles, but do you happen to know the serial number range off hand to avoid in this regard? I will read the CMP info as well, thanks for that reminder. Thanks, gentlemen. Looks like I have some homework to do. |
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Quoted: ...how much worse is the recoil versus an M1? if you've ever shot mosin nagant M44 how does it compare? sharky30- Thanks for the links. As to the recoil: Never shot an M44, so no idea there, but it was slightly, and noticeably more sharp than my M1. Pthfndr- Thanks for that forum link. |
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Sharper recoil than an M1, overall, about the same. The old Cav Col I used to drive to medical appointments and my Dad both said you could tell what a soldier learned on. If he keeps his thumb on the right side of the stock, he learned on the Springfield, if he hangs his thumb over the stock, he learned on the M1. As I have both I can confirm that if you hang your thumb over on a Springfield you stand a could chance of getting it jammed into your nose pretty sharply. Basic differences 1903 straight stock, ladder sight, 1903A1 semi-pistol grip stock, ladder sight, and 1903A3 A1 type stock and peep sight on rear of action relatively similar to M1 Garand sight. A4's etc (sniper types I think) The ladder sight is drift and range corrected to 2700 yards when lifted up. (I have an old FM someplace that has the 2700 yard figure in it.) Good riflemen could hit a man at 800 - 900 yards with any version. Maybe a Mauser knock-off but they sure are sweet. Damn they really feel like a rifle and the action on mine sure feels nicer than the Remmies and Savages I've picked up lately. |
| You can a real USGI one for $400-500 from the CMP. I got one from them last year that was in great shape, and if you aren't looking for a rare collectible one, you can always get weapons much cheaper than the market from CMP. They also come with a really nice manual. Go to [url]http://www.odcmp.com/[/url] for more information, and specifically [url]http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1903.htm[/url] for information on M1903 sales |
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In answer to your questions: 1.It's a bolt-gun so it's not that complicated. Flip the mag cut-off halfway up and the bolt comes out, same as any other Mauser. Flip the safety halfway on the bolt and you can unscrew the striker assy, same as any Mauser. You don't really need to do much more, but more detailed instructions are available. 2.M1903's have a ladder type sight out at the barrel. All the parts are milled. "Low numbers" are suspect, though in all of time and two world wars that they were used only something like 12 cases of KBs were ever recorded and no one has ever died. I'd still stick to a "high-number" for shooting though. M1903A1 has a pistol grip stock. Otherwise it's a M1903 pretty much. M1903A2 is a sub-caliber insert for an artillery piece. Allowed cheap training with .30-06. M1903A3 has several production cost cutting measures in the design. It uses some stamped parts (lets face it, you don't really need milled barrel bands and floorplates), but the steel used in the gun is actually the strongest of all the Springfields because of the time frame they were made (WWII) and the use of nickel-steel and other advances by this time. The rear sight is a peep, moved to the rear, and probably one of the best rear sights to ever appear on a battel rifle in terms of being useful, adjustable, simple, effective and just plain good. As the sight sits higher, the front sight blade is also taller. M1903A4 is a sniper version. There's nothing actually different mechanically. They didn't choose better shooting guns or anything. It's a M1903A3 with an A1 PG stock and a scope, that's it. In fact a real M1903A4 receiver is marked "M1903A3" but in a different place (to clear the scope mount) than a normal M1903A3 so it could be used in A3 production if it didn't need to be an A4. 3.I don't really know. I think it will vary a great deal as to collector status, etc. I just haven't seen any for sale lately. 4.Really just look to see if it's as good as any used bolt-gun. Check to see if the firing pin is chipped, but that's an easy and cheap fix. Make sure the mag cut-off works correctly (it's a device that allows the magazine to not work, making the rifle a single shot and keeping the 5rds in reserve). Get a high number if you go for a M1903. Pay clsoe attention to the numbers themselves if it's a M1903. I've seen guns were an extra number was added to the S/N to make a low number into a high number. You can spot these easily as the number won't line up right, looks different, and won't be relatively centered to the rest of the markings. The others (A1-A4) you don't need to worry about the number. Don't go by the barrel date (visible behind the front sight) to determine age. Reguilding M1903s was a pretty regular thing, so many just don't have the original barrel. Ross |
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[u]www.jouster.com[/u] Culver's Shooting board has all sorts of info about the 1903/1903A3. Pay attention to the serial number if you buy one, and check the headspace - the CMP let a few out recently that had unfinished chambers and it is possible a few are floating around the market that were not sent back to be fixed. |
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A 1903A3 is what convinced me to buy a bolt action rifle for hunting. When I was young (12) all my friends had lever action 30-30s, I still hunted with my first gun, a single shot 20ga. When I had enough money I bought a Savage PUMP 30-30. What a POS. It broke the first night I had it (just cycling the slide), without even shooting it. I got it repaired just in time for deer season. One of my friends' dad had a sporterized 1903A3 and that thing was-literally-a tack driver. Real nice walnut stock, Monte Carlo cheekpiece, ancient Weaver 4X scope. But boy could it shoot. It convinced me that if your rifle is accurate enough, all you NEED is one shot. After that deer season, I got rid of the Savage pump and bought a Ruger M77R in .270. Never shot more than once at the three deer I've got with it. Over the years, my friend's dad passed away and he inherited the '06. Three years ago, his 18 year old son borrowed it to hunt with. Unfortunately, while he had it his house-and the '06-burned to the ground. Last week I was out looking around for an M1A and lo and behold, I find in a gunshop a sporterized 1903 (not an A3) for $250. Called my buddy, he jumped on the opportunity, I went back and got it out the door for $250. Checked the SN at the above link and it was manufactured in 1934. I haven't shot it yet but the rifling looks to be in good shape and the action is still reasonably tight. Stock looks great after multiple applications of Stock Sheen. My friend can't wait to get his hands on it. If I hadn't bought a new Ruger '06 last year myself, this beauty would be residing in my safe. |