another video of the construction off of Hwy 4
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and more New SpaceX 444 Acre Site Drone Footage |
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Originally Posted By shooter_gregg: What is that? Parking for starship? I'd speculate power generation. They need more power before they can really fully utilize the Air Separation Unit that is nearing completion across Hwy 4 from Pad 1 to produce their own O2 and N2 for the tank farm. A new 24" gas pipeline will go in supply this site, that is a MASSIVE supply of gas so assume gas turbines/generators Data center while possible, just doesn't make much since. A liquefaction plant to make CH4 on this site seems a little unlikely. It would require a highly insulated pipeline from this site all the way to the tank farm at the launch site. It is on the Port Connector Road, which is the closest access to the port from Starbase. About 12 miles down Hwy4. This dirt work in the videos is along the west side of the port connector road is shaded on the left below. They are also starting dirt work on that smaller strip between the port connector and Massey's test site and that is rumored to extend all the way north to the port as well. Overall view of those 2 sites.  |
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Originally Posted By Chokey: it's just passing Cape Town now. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HSPtPooX0AAOsZ_.jpg?name=orig On a separate note, I was looking back at the beginning of this thread. Chokey, I saw your post on page 1 - you've consistently kept us updated for nearly 8 years. Thank you.  |
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Originally Posted By Chokey: it's just passing Cape Town now. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HSPtPooX0AAOsZ_.jpg?name=orig 
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I don't see no Americans. I see trespassers.
Starship is preparing to go to orbit. Flight 14 is targeting to launch as early as Tuesday, September 22, pending regulatory approval
SpaceX has just officially announced that they are targeting Tuesday, September 22nd at 8:15 AM ET for their 14th Starship test flight. The upcoming flight is planned to be the first to send Starship into orbit around Earth, and will also mark the first time SplaceX plans to deploy Starlink V3 satellites into the constellation, delivering a payload that will dramatically expand connectivity speeds and reliability around the world. Starship’s initial orbital mission is expected to fly at an altitude approximately 275 km above Earth and complete approximately six orbits around the planet over the course of a nearly 10-hour flight, with splashdown targeted in the Pacific Ocean to the west of Chile. The booster’s primary test objective on Flight 14 will be executing a successful launch, ascent, stage separation, boostback burn, and landing burn at an offshore landing point in the Gulf of America. There have been several modifications to hardware and software to address issues seen on the previous flight.
SpaceX says they've made several upgrades to Starship's heatshield for test flight 14: The upgrades include additional retention mechanisms added to tiles in areas deemed to be at highest risk of falling off during ascent, addressing recently discovered areas that offer flow paths behind tiles for plasma, and flying multiple areas with a curved tile design that has shown the ability to reduce heating in the gaps between tiles. Lastly, two tiles recovered from Ship 40 are planned to be reflown on Ship 41, marking the first tile reuse for Starship |
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Official Flight 14 page. https://www.spacex.com/launches/starship-flight-14 Flight 13 info and corrective actions for booster performance: There have been several modifications to hardware and software to address issues seen on the previous flight. After stage separation and flip on Flight 13, the Super Heavy booster was able to use all 33 engines on its boostback burn for the first time. In the terminal phase of the burn, the three center engines showed signs of ice clogging which triggered an early end to the maneuver. The booster went on to attempt a landing burn, with 8 of the 13 planned engines reigniting before the booster made a hard splashdown in the Gulf. The Super Heavy on this upcoming flight has hardware modifications to improve filtering to the engines and software changes to enhance relight reliability. 00:00:58 - Max Q (moment of peak aerodynamic stress on the rocket) 00:02:20 - Super Heavy MECO (most engines cut off) 00:02:22 - Hot-staging (Starship Raptor ignition and stage separation) 00:02:27 - Super Heavy boostback burn start 00:03:07 - Super Heavy boostback burn shutdown 00:06:35 - Super Heavy landing burn start 00:07:01 - Super Heavy landing burn shutdown 00:08:11 - Starship engine cutoff 00:25:28 - Starship orbital insertion burn start 00:25:47 - Starship orbital insertion burn shutdown 00:34:18 - Payload deploy start 01:04:50 - Payload deploy complete 08:52:18 - Deorbit burn start 08:52:29 - Deorbit burn shutdown 09:28:52 - Starship entry 09:47:30 - Starship is transonic 09:48:07 - Starship is subsonic 09:50:11 - Landing burn start 09:50:13 - Landing flip 09:50:21 - Landing burn 3 to 2 engines 09:50:22 - Landing burn 2 to 1 engine 09:50:30 - An exciting landing!  Initial orbit design  |
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Originally Posted By Cobalt135: Official Flight 14 page. https://www.spacex.com/launches/starship-flight-14 Flight 13 info and corrective actions for booster performance: 00:00:00 - Liftoff 00:00:58 - Max Q (moment of peak aerodynamic stress on the rocket) 00:02:20 - Super Heavy MECO (most engines cut off) 00:02:22 - Hot-staging (Starship Raptor ignition and stage separation) 00:02:27 - Super Heavy boostback burn start 00:03:07 - Super Heavy boostback burn shutdown 00:06:35 - Super Heavy landing burn start 00:07:01 - Super Heavy landing burn shutdown 00:08:11 - Starship engine cutoff 00:25:28 - Starship orbital insertion burn start 00:25:47 - Starship orbital insertion burn shutdown 00:34:18 - Payload deploy start 01:04:50 - Payload deploy complete 08:52:18 - Deorbit burn start 08:52:29 - Deorbit burn shutdown 09:28:52 - Starship entry 09:47:30 - Starship is transonic 09:48:07 - Starship is subsonic 09:50:11 - Landing burn start 09:50:13 - Landing flip 09:50:21 - Landing burn 3 to 2 engines 09:50:22 - Landing burn 2 to 1 engine 09:50:30 - An exciting landing! https://sxcontent9668.azureedge.us/cms-assets/assets/Test_Flight_14_Trajectory_090226_web_2_56b3b513b2.png Initial orbit design https://sxcontent9668.azureedge.us/cms-assets/assets/Orbital_Aborts_V3_3ae6b3cda5.png 
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I'm guessing this means no catch attempt |
Remorse is for the dead
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Originally Posted By Hadrian: Cool. I was wondering about that this morning. On a separate note, I was looking back at the beginning of this thread. Chokey, I saw your post on page 1 - you've consistently kept us updated for nearly 8 years. Thank you. Originally Posted By Hadrian: Originally Posted By Chokey: it's just passing Cape Town now. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HSPtPooX0AAOsZ_.jpg?name=orig On a separate note, I was looking back at the beginning of this thread. Chokey, I saw your post on page 1 - you've consistently kept us updated for nearly 8 years. Thank you.
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Tom Sawyer.
"If The Rules brought us to this, what use are they?"
"If The Rules brought us to this, what use are they?"
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Easter Island was a Space Shuttle contingency landing site... NASA lengthened the airport runway to 11,000+ ft. |
Scepticism is an exercise, not a life; it is a discipline fit to purify the mind of prejudice and render it all the more apt, when the time comes, to believe and to act wisely. -- George Santayana
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
Never mistake a clear view for a short distance.
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Originally Posted By vmpglenn: Easter Island was a Space Shuttle contingency landing site... NASA lengthened the airport runway to 11,000+ ft. Originally Posted By vmpglenn: Easter Island was a Space Shuttle contingency landing site... NASA lengthened the airport runway to 11,000+ ft. Yes, it would have been the TAL (Transoceanic Abort Landing) for polar orbit Shuttle launches from Vandenberg. Since Vandenberg launches were cancelled these were the only TAL made fully mission ready. 
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Originally Posted By Gloftoe: More splashdowns. Have they given up on recovery/reuse? |
Decadence is no longer morally acceptable.
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There’s a novel I haven’t read about a Shuttle launch out of Vandenberg diverting to Easter Island. Then for stakes, the Soviets try to steal it. It had some pretty amusing cover art. Attached File That’s either some big assed Moai or a teeny X-37 sized Orbiter.  If it wasn’t for the lack of infrastructure I suppose Easter Island would make a good launch site. Kwajalein Atoll probably males more sense though. |
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague.
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Originally Posted By Gloftoe: More splashdowns. Have they given up on recovery/reuse? It wasn't until Flight 20 of Falcon 9 that they had a successful booster recovery/landing. The entire point of Starship is reuse. If they had given up on recovery/reuse, they probably wouldn't bother to ever launch the system again. That said, I am as bummed as you are they they are not going to try to catch Starship on the next flight. I guess they just want to be extra-sure, since it is such an unprecedented thing. |
“A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.” -- Tsunetomo Yamamoto
Decadence is no longer morally acceptable.
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Originally Posted By Hesperus: When you're talking about a stainless steel object the size of a 15 story building that can travel at over 20 times the speed of sound, being extra careful seems wise.
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Life is about choices.
If you make a mistake once, it's a mistake.
You make the same mistake again, that's a choice.
If you make a mistake once, it's a mistake.
You make the same mistake again, that's a choice.
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Ship 41 will go from the largest single item ever launched into space, to the largest single item to be placed into orbit around earth. Below image is the path of Ship 41 orbits for this launch. The Ship goes initially into a suborbital trajectory just like always had. If there is a problem then it will fall into the Indian Ocean without any assistance. If OK, the orbit insertion burn will occur. At that point, it could come down anywhere between the Northern and Southern latitudes of the orbit. It would be a huge deal if they lost control and it re-entered in an unplanned manner, even bigger if it hits land. SpaceX have to be satisfied with the predicted performance to send it on a re-entry over the southern US for a landing at Starbase without tons of parts raining down on people. The FAA has to be satisfied with what they are seeing, and how SpaceX has handled corrective actions before they will grant a launch license to even do such a thing. <---I think this is part of the holdup, in addition to the following: Pad 2 is the only functioning launch pad. Pad 1 is a few months from being finished with the refit. If the booster or ship have a failure in the final stages of the catch you are gonna trash the launch mount and tower. That could be months of repairs. B-22 and S-42 could easily be ready for Flight 15 in November.  |
Starship Flight 14: -Morning launch (75 min. window opens at 7:15am CT) -Will be the first Starship launch to go orbital! -No booster or ship catch. -Ship will orbit the Earth about 6 times over the course of nearly 10 hours! -Ship will splashdown off coast of Chile in the Pacific Ocean, not the Indian Ocean -Starship will deploy 26 Starlink V3 satellites that will be operational |
This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
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| While catching both would be nice, I wonder if they're waiting for the second tower to be farther along until they go for a full catch. Having your only launch and retrieval platform nuked by your system coming in to hot would be a delay while they repair/rebuild it |
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Local Notice to Mariners is up. NAVAREA IV / Space Operations / Hazardous Warning Area / Commercial (Hazardous)
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New video, not sure how to embed it. https://www.spacex.com/content/starship/holy-grail-of-rocketry |
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
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Originally Posted By 7: New video, not sure how to embed it. https://www.spacex.com/content/starship/holy-grail-of-rocketry I love SpaceX films. |
Seriously... unTex the Mex..
New, video 3
 Starship - The Holy Grail of Rocketry |
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Originally Posted By Cobalt135: New, video 3
For the YT people (this link could break since it is someone posting a ripped version from X.com  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQCtXRtRuBcI'm not gonna lie, the space footage with that music gets me hard.  |
The long term future is a mash up of Idiocracy and 1984. "Ow, my balls" meets "He loved Big Brother". The boot on your face will likely be a big red clown shoe, but it'll be there regardless. - pmacb
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Originally Posted By 7: New video, not sure how to embed it. https://www.spacex.com/content/starship/holy-grail-of-rocketry
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The primary issue with the booster is ice clogging the LOX feedlines to the engines during boostback and landing burns causing engines failing to light due to supply issues. This is due to tapping off some of the hot gasses from the Raptor combustion to maintain positive pressurization within the propellant tank. They chose this route to reduce weight of carrying COPV tanks to keep positive pressure on the propellant tank as it is depleted during the launch. If B-21 overcomes the internal LOX tank icing issues and clogging of the feed lines caused by the high temp autogenous gas pressurization of the tank by the Raptor combustion byproducts, CO2 and H2O, reacting to the the -290 degree LOX supply, then it can move on to catch attempt possibilities in the future. The main corrective action has been to install strainers in the LOX tank to keep that ice formation from blocking the propellant flow the engines need to perform successful boostback and landing burns. Until they can be confident that they have that issue under control there is no expectation that the booster will return for a catch. On this launch, the ship will demonstrate the ability to remain in an actual orbit for an extended time period (nearly 10 hours vs under 2 hours so far) and can still perform a successful deorbit burn and splash down where they intended. (off the coast of Chile) That should give the FAA the confidence to allow catch attempts of ships back at Starbase. |
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AI answer to "How much to the Starship tiles weigh? I got to handle a Shuttle tile once; it looked like a heavy ceramic block, about 8 x 12 x 1 inches, but it weighed about as much as a styrofoam cup! At 20:21 of the above video he's handling one of these tiles. An individual, standard intact Starship thermal protection system (TPS) tile weighs roughly 381 grams (about 13.5 ounces or 0.84 pounds). Because the hexagonal tiles (often called "star bricks") vary slightly in thickness and size depending on their placement on the vehicle's body—such as the nose cone or the flaps—their weights can vary, with some custom sections weighing up to 0.55 kg.Total Shield WeightWhen calculating the weight of the entire heat shield, the numbers scale up quickly:The Tiles Alone: A standard Starship is covered in approximately 18,000 hexagonal ceramic tiles. If every tile weighed exactly the baseline 381 grams, the total tile mass would be around 6.8 metric tons (approx. 15,000 lbs).The Entire System: The tiles do not sit directly on the steel hull. When you include the weight of the underlying flexible ceramic fiber insulation blankets, mounting clips, and thousands of stainless steel attachment pins welded to the ship, the entire thermal protection system is estimated to weigh between 5 to 10 metric tons.Because Starship is constructed from stainless steel, it can tolerate much higher temperatures (up to 800°C–1000°C) than the aluminum structure of the old Space Shuttle. This allows SpaceX to use thinner, lighter insulation layers overall, making Starship's total heat shield weight roughly 30% lighter per square foot compared to legacy spacecraft. |
87% of the time, any question starting with "Why..." is answered with "Money."
“Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.”--Marcus Aurelius
"...and if you can't wait for dawn you can always light a fire."
“Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.”--Marcus Aurelius
"...and if you can't wait for dawn you can always light a fire."
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Originally Posted By Cobalt135: The primary issue with the booster is ice clogging the LOX feedlines to the engines during boostback and landing burns causing engines failing to light due to supply issues. This is due to tapping off some of the hot gasses from the Raptor combustion to maintain positive pressurization within the propellant tank. They chose this route to reduce weight of carrying COPV tanks to keep positive pressure on the propellant tank as it is depleted during the launch. If B-21 overcomes the internal LOX tank icing issues and clogging of the feed lines caused by the high temp autogenous gas pressurization of the tank by the Raptor combustion byproducts, CO2 and H2O, reacting to the the -290 degree LOX supply, then it can move on to catch attempt possibilities in the future. The main corrective action has been to install strainers in the LOX tank to keep that ice formation from blocking the propellant flow the engines need to perform successful boostback and landing burns. Until they can be confident that they have that issue under control there is no expectation that the booster will return for a catch. On this launch, the ship will demonstrate the ability to remain in an actual orbit for an extended time period (nearly 10 hours vs under 2 hours so far) and can still perform a successful deorbit burn and splash down where they intended. (off the coast of Chile) That should give the FAA the confidence to allow catch attempts of ships back at Starbase. I wonder if they could have microwave heaters to melt the ice at the pick-ups? |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: I wonder if they could have microwave heaters to melt the ice at the pick-ups? It seems stupid to me that they would elect to dump exhaust gas back into the LOX tank for pad pressure. Why not just vaporize a slip stream of LOX instead? The current method is not for "rapid reuse" because you'd have continual ice/CO2 build up in the LOX tanks. Seems like a shortcut that has too many obstacles. -ZA |
derp...
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: I wonder if they could have microwave heaters to melt the ice at the pick-ups? I'm no rocket scientist, but when we wanted to keep our plumbing from freezing in the winter at the ranch we just let the tap drip a bit. so why not a return line/pump with a check valve to keep the fluid circulating back to the tank? |
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: I wonder if they could have microwave heaters to melt the ice at the pick-ups? |
Coyote with 40 people crammed into a minivan gets into a chase with DPS, Paco over estimates his driving abilities and *whmmo!* the Astrovan of Immigration becomes a Pinata of Pain, hurling broken bodies like so many tasty pieces of cheap candy...
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Originally Posted By AgeOne: I'm no rocket scientist, but when we wanted to keep our plumbing from freezing in the winter at the ranch we just let the tap drip a bit. so why not a return line/pump with a check valve to keep the fluid circulating back to the tank? Its rather annoying that they are having this issue again. |
Coyote with 40 people crammed into a minivan gets into a chase with DPS, Paco over estimates his driving abilities and *whmmo!* the Astrovan of Immigration becomes a Pinata of Pain, hurling broken bodies like so many tasty pieces of cheap candy...
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Originally Posted By ZA206: It seems stupid to me that they would elect to dump exhaust gas back into the LOX tank for pad pressure. Why not just vaporize a slip stream of LOX instead? The current method is not for "rapid reuse" because you'd have continual ice/CO2 build up in the LOX tanks. Seems like a shortcut that has too many obstacles. -ZA |
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Originally Posted By Cypher15: They are using a tap off from the pre-burners (iirc) to pressurize the tanks. One of the byproducts is water which condenses in the prop tanks and then freezes into ice. Its rather annoying that they are having this issue again. |
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Originally Posted By johnh57: I thought the ice issue was that they are building dry ice - CO2 is also an exhaust product which is getting pumped into the lox tank which is cold enough to create dry ice. Theres water, CO2, CO, and NOx. So probably both dry ice and water ice. |
Coyote with 40 people crammed into a minivan gets into a chase with DPS, Paco over estimates his driving abilities and *whmmo!* the Astrovan of Immigration becomes a Pinata of Pain, hurling broken bodies like so many tasty pieces of cheap candy...
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Originally Posted By AgeOne: I'm no rocket scientist, but when we wanted to keep our plumbing from freezing in the winter at the ranch we just let the tap drip a bit. so why not a return line/pump with a check valve to keep the fluid circulating back to the tank? It's not that the LOX is freezing, it's that the combustion products used to pressurize the tank includes water vapor, which freezes at temps much higher than the OX L's at. Its water ice that's blocking the pipes. At least, that's how I understand the issue. |
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Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: indeed Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: Originally Posted By Hadrian: Originally Posted By Chokey: it's just passing Cape Town now. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HSPtPooX0AAOsZ_.jpg?name=orig On a separate note, I was looking back at the beginning of this thread. Chokey, I saw your post on page 1 - you've consistently kept us updated for nearly 8 years. Thank you. Hadn't seen these videos before:
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This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
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Originally Posted By Gamma762: Hadn't seen these videos before:
Originally Posted By Gamma762: Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: Originally Posted By Hadrian: Originally Posted By Chokey: it's just passing Cape Town now. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HSPtPooX0AAOsZ_.jpg?name=orig On a separate note, I was looking back at the beginning of this thread. Chokey, I saw your post on page 1 - you've consistently kept us updated for nearly 8 years. Thank you. Hadn't seen these videos before:
Those are from SpaceX's Part 3 of the Starship series posted yesterday evening. Starship - The Holy Grail of Rocketry |
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Originally Posted By Gamma762: Hadn't seen these videos before:
Originally Posted By Gamma762: Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: Originally Posted By Hadrian: Originally Posted By Chokey: it's just passing Cape Town now. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HSPtPooX0AAOsZ_.jpg?name=orig On a separate note, I was looking back at the beginning of this thread. Chokey, I saw your post on page 1 - you've consistently kept us updated for nearly 8 years. Thank you. Hadn't seen these videos before:
"Sixteen to eighteen foot waves with 45 knot winds*..." It's hard to work with ANY inclement weather but with waves like he's talking about it's damned dangerous. *45 knots is 51 mph. ON a wet, slippery deck. |
87% of the time, any question starting with "Why..." is answered with "Money."
“Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.”--Marcus Aurelius
"...and if you can't wait for dawn you can always light a fire."
“Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.”--Marcus Aurelius
"...and if you can't wait for dawn you can always light a fire."