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Posted: 11/12/2003 1:59:36 PM EDT
I'm glad tha man is standing up for what he believes is right.

Link Posted: 11/12/2003 2:22:50 PM EDT
If he is removed from the Court I think he could take the Governor's job next election.
Or Senate, maybe.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 2:38:34 PM EDT
He's a douchbag who should not be on the bench. He has stated that gods law trumps mans law. Unfortunately for him, he's supposed to judge man's law, and not god's.

Your particular belief is not material in this argument. Moore believes that god's law is above man's law, and he is an agent of the state wielding state power. Thus, in time, he will clearly in violation of the 1st ammendment, as he WILL hear cases where there is a conflict. Recusing himself from these cases would be the proper thing to do, but I don't believe someone at his level should have that option. By choosing god's law over man's while on the bench, church and state have merged. Take a step back and ask yourself if you'd have similar support of a Hindu on the bench that had the same sort of rhetoric.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 2:48:36 PM EDT
Actually, DriftPunch, you misunderstand his beliefs.

His position is that the people of Alabama have the right to place anything they desire in their Supreme Court building. And that the Fereral Government does not have the right to over-rule the people of that soverign state.

Regardless of how you feel about the Ten Commandments, conservatives ought to support his position on this issue.

And in addition, he is a fine man and to be admired.

Link Posted: 11/12/2003 2:53:23 PM EDT
Driftpunch. You're right, I'd be pissed if a Hindu judge used the same rhetoric. Because our country wasn't founded on Hinduism. America was founded on Christianity so I whole heartedly support Judge Moore. Besides, he's following the Constitution. Nothing wrong with that!
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 3:01:41 PM EDT
If you haven't read the Alabama State Constitution (yes I have) you have no right to make a judgement, since that is the basis for the decision by Judge Moore.

You really gotta know the law of the State before you can apply it, you know. He is a State judge, applying State law, in a State court. the Feds had NO jurisdiction.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 3:16:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
His position is that the people of Alabama have the right to place anything they desire in their Supreme Court building. And that the Fereral Government does not have the right to over-rule the people of that soverign state.

Ahh, states rights... So, you'd have no problem with Alabama, if they chose to do so, formally adopting the Baptist sect as the faith-o-the-state. After all, the Constitution only applies federally right? Unfortunately, if you believe that the current view of incorporation is a faulty ideal, then you also must acknowledge that the CA AWB and other gun control measures stand up to a constitutional test. After all, those laws were enacted by a soverign state.


Regardless of how you feel about the Ten Commandments, conservatives ought to support his position on this issue.
Actually, my comments are directed at his legal thoughts, and not his 10 commandments stunt (although I've got a beef with that too).

Besides, I'm not a conservative. I define an independent (Ann Coulter can kiss my ass), who is forced to vote for the lesser of two evils (Republican). People who would persue a 'majority opinions trump basic liberties' legislative agenda are no ally of mine. Our personal liberties should never be sacrificed at the alter of the voting mob. Note the same people that bang the gong of states rights are usually the first to cry foul when such a majority agenda is persued in their juristiction when they are the minority (like in CA).


And in addition, he is a fine man and to be admired.
He may be a fine man, but I would rather not have him engaged in any form of government.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 3:18:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:...And that the Fereral Government does not have the right to over-rule the people of that soverign state...



The USA is sovereign in this matter.

Link Posted: 11/12/2003 3:21:46 PM EDT
death to the christian taliban.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:27:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
His position is that the people of Alabama have the right to place anything they desire in their Supreme Court building. And that the Fereral Government does not have the right to over-rule the people of that soverign state.

Ahh, states rights... So, you'd have no problem with Alabama, if they chose to do so, formally adopting the Baptist sect as the faith-o-the-state. After all, the Constitution only applies federally right? Unfortunately, if you believe that the current view of incorporation is a faulty ideal, then you also must acknowledge that the CA AWB and other gun control measures stand up to a constitutional test. After all, those laws were enacted by a soverign state...



DriftPunch: Like most of America, you missed the central issue of this situation. (I apologize for posting to this issue so late, but I couldn't access Arfcom all day yesterday for some reason...)

The question of the constitutionality of Roy Moore's initial action, i.e. placing the monument in the Judicial Complex in the first place, has yet to be determined and the USSC has refused to hear the case. This had nothing to do with the hearing yesterday.

He was removed from office yesterday for "ethics violations," specifically for refusing to obey Judge Thompson's order to remove the monument. That order was issued before his appeals were exhausted regarding the initial question. It was also in direct conflict with his oath of office to defend Alabama's Constitution, which SPECIFICALLY ACKNOWLEDGES GOD.

So the central issue is whether or not an elected state judge must follow an order issued by a federal judge which violates his oath of office and/or his state's constitution.

You clearly believe his initial actions violated the First Amendment - I don't - but that is irrelevant to his removal from office.

You seem to support the idea that he should be forced to follow any federal order blindly - I don't.

I believe the JIC panel yesterday was composed, without exception, by cowards - you probably consider them heroes.

And neither of us is going to change the other's mind - so be it.

(All I know is that my fellow Alabamians had better join me in praying that Judge Thompson doesn't issue an order for Bill Pryor to start rounding up our guns...)


FWIW, Old_Painless couldn't be more right (as usual ). Roy Moore is a great man who is sincere in his convictions. I'd pit his legal prowess against any - he has a photographic memory and an enviably exhaustive knowledge of the law, history, and government. And he is a nice, friendly man to boot. My prayers are with him still, and I am far from alone on this.

And you haven't heard the last of him...
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:37:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 10:47:48 AM EDT by HardShell]
And before I get jumped by all of the liberals and/or atheists out there, please don't follow-up with the usual list of lies the media has been spewing and TOO many people have been repeating, i.e.:

HE VIOLATED THE FIRST AMENDMENT - He's not in Congress (or even the State Legislature, not that that matters) and he didn't make any laws (I don't believe he established a religion, either, FWIW). You are entitled to buy that argument - I don't.

HE BROKE THE LAW - Which law, exactly? He refused to comply with an (in his, mine, and many others' belief) illegal court order. I would hope that I would have what it takes to do the same if ever faced with such...

THE MONUMENT WAS ONLY RELIGIOUS IN NATURE - The Ten Commandments are on top, and quotes of legal and historical context are on all four sides. It is no more an exclusively-Christian monument than the tableau in the chambers of the USSC (which also depicts the tem Commandments).

HE SPENT STATE MONEY TO FURTHER RELIGION - The cost of the monument, its installation, and his legal fees have been paid for privately. State funds were used to REMOVE the monument, and as an Alabama tax-payer I have a real problem with THAT!...

HE SNUCK IT INTO THE BUILDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT - (One of the most prevalent lies, even here locally) He scheduled its delivery and installation for 6pm, after working hours - just as you would for any installation/work that would interfere with the work day. The moving company experienced delays that had nothing to do with Moore. As Chief Justice and titular lease-holder on the Judicial Complex, he didn't have to "sneak" anything in or out.


I'm not saying we all should agree about Roy Moore, the outcome, or anything else - I'm just suggesting that folks get their facts straight (and not straight from the nightly news...).
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:38:30 AM EDT
Funny thing...

At the hearing in which he was booted, the presiding official opened with prayer.

Scott
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:40:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 10:43:47 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
There is NO ROOM for a judge on the bench who doesn't respect the legal system. It's no different from a cop who decideds to perform his "own" justice based on his own beliefs. There's no room for that kind of bullshit in a country built on LAW.

That said - I do respect that fact that he stood firmly for what he beleived in, and he is willing to face that consequences without excuses or complaints. He has a lot more backbone and integrity than most - I just believe he willfully violated the U.S. Constitution, and I find that inappropriate behavior for a judge.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:44:10 AM EDT
The Constitution allows the states to promote religion if they want in spite of the lies by the ACLU, Southern Poverty Law Center, SCOTUS, etc. When the Constitution was radified, 5 states had a state supported church and some even taxed their citizens to support the church. Some of these state churches stayed until the 1800's when that church became a minority and the people wanted it changed. Our Founding Fathers nor SCOTUS considered that unconstitutional. Now we are lied to. If they take religion away,along with our guns, the dictatorship will be easy to impose.

Judge Moore will be our next governor and them we will prevail.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:48:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
There is NO ROOM for a judge on the bench who doesn't respect the legal system. It's no different from a cop who decideds to perform his "own" justice based on his own beliefs. There's no room for that kind of bullshit in a country built on LAW.





Actually there's NO ROOM for a judge who doesn't believe in God on the bench since this country was FOUNDED on the believe in God.

Dirk

Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:50:21 AM EDT
This man is one of the bravest men I've ever seen myself.

He went against the so-called "law" because the so called "law" is WRONG, plain and simple.

I'm glad the settlers here back in the 1700's had the balls to tell the English to fuck off.

Thats what Judge Roy Moore did, he told the ACLU and all the rest of the left wingers to go fuck off.

God bless him.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:54:11 AM EDT
Judge / "Congress" ... Judge / "Congress" ... Judge / "Congress"

Nope, they don't even sound the same...

"Establishment" / acknowledge ... "establishment" / acknowledge ... "establishment" / acknowledge ...

Same here.

Brush up on Engrish.


Judge Moore did nothing wrong, and the FED had no business getting involved. Their actions have basically overturned a legal election in the State of Alabama, and you guys are cheering for that tyranny? Nice.

Scott
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:14:29 AM EDT
God does not belong in the courtroom.

Or the classroom.

Or the Pledge.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:16:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dirk_Pitt:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
There is NO ROOM for a judge on the bench who doesn't respect the legal system. It's no different from a cop who decideds to perform his "own" justice based on his own beliefs. There's no room for that kind of bullshit in a country built on LAW.





Actually there's NO ROOM for a judge who doesn't believe in God on the bench since this country was FOUNDED on the believe in God.

Dirk




Founded by Christians, yes, but by men who had been persecuted for their beliefs and who underrstood the evils of state sanctioned religion.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:39:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
God does not belong in the courtroom.

Or the classroom.

Or the Pledge.



God isn't a part time enity, he's involved in all aspects of our life. Those 3 places are the very places he belongs or else he won't be in our kids or grandkids lifes at all....

And I'm not talking about state sanctioned religion, I'm talking about a little common sense here.



Dirk
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:41:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
God does not belong in the courtroom.

Or the classroom.

Or the Pledge.




Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:47:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dirk_Pitt:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
God does not belong in the courtroom.

Or the classroom.

Or the Pledge.



God isn't a part time enity, he's involved in all aspects of our life. Those 3 places are the very places he belongs or else he won't be in our kids or grandkids lifes at all....

And I'm not talking about state sanctioned religion, I'm talking about a little common sense here.



Dirk



I am an agnostic. I believe that morality is not soemthing we get from our religion. I dont smoke, drink, do drugs, or hurt people. If you are right, then the muslims are going to hell. If they are right, Allah is gonna have a little talk with you. So, seeing that all these people have different beliefs, and all of them a re mutually exclusive, I am not religious.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:48:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Founded by Christians, yes, but by men who had been persecuted for their beliefs and who underrstood the evils of state sanctioned religion.



Funny, I don't recall the monument establishing anything.

But that's okay, I guess it's acceptable for the state to sanction atheism.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:48:49 AM EDT
Judge Roy Moore now has the majority backing of an indignant Alabama population to ensure his election as Governor or Senator.


As was his original intention when this all started.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:51:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Founded by Christians, yes, but by men who had been persecuted for their beliefs and who underrstood the evils of state sanctioned religion.



Funny, I don't recall the monument establishing anything.

But that's okay, I guess it's acceptable for the state to sanction atheism.



Ok, I will accept that the Ten commandements in the courtroom does not sanction religion when you and yours put a copy of the torah in the classroom.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 11:56:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Ok, I will accept that the Ten commandements in the courtroom does not sanction religion when you and yours put a copy of the torah in the classroom.



Bullshit. You'll whine just like all the other atheists...

But, hey, I'm game. I'd do it, except of course, that there is no equally sublime section of the Koran. We're posting the Ten Commandments, not the entire Bible.

Please try again...
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 12:18:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Ok, I will accept that the Ten commandements in the courtroom does not sanction religion when you and yours put a copy of the torah in the classroom.



That's pretty funny. Any idea what the Jews call the part of the Old Testament that the ten Commandments are in?

I'll give you a hint, it's found in two of the first five books, also called the T****.

Also part of the "Law" or Tanach.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 12:23:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 12:29:44 PM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:
Judge Roy Moore now has the majority backing of an indignant Alabama population to ensure his election as Governor or Senator.


As was his original intention when this all started.



If you knew the man, you wouldn't say that.

Or maybe you would still say that (many around here do), but at least you'd know it wasn't true.

p.s. - "when this all started" he was a lower court judge doing what he believed was right and lawful, with no idea he would ever be Chief Justice or anything beyond that - he didn't conveniently choose this as a cause to run for office on...
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 12:23:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 12:24:22 PM EDT by Zaphod]
So what? Don't you know that in America today Man's law trumps God's Law?

So I guess if the Congress gets together next week and overturns the BOR, and then makes rape and murder Constitutional rights, that the bunch who want to skewer Judge Moore will simply stand by and say, "Well, that's the law..."

Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:07:40 PM EDT
anyone who has helped attack the judge for standing for the one true GOD who was the reason for founding our nation will be sorely displeased and ashamed when they find the amount of hot water that they will be in for their deeds, i take the side of the judge, when america spits in the face of the almighty GOD while embracing every false religion such as islam, and pushes god, he may just push back



the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that perish....
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