[ARCHIVED THREAD] - OFFICIAL ATF REDEFINING MACHINE GUNS FIREMISSION THREAD - WE ARE GETTING SLAMMED BY THE ANTIS (Page 1 of 13)
Posted: 1/18/2018 4:18:15 PM EDT
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We just wrapped up with the live feed from MACs channel (hence the title change) and it turns out the proposed language for the ATF bumpfire stock ban is all encompassing to include the potential for semi auto to be added to the NFA. MAC w/ guest speaker Rick Vasquez (former ATF agent) on the topics of ATF ruling change for Jan 25th https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMw0g7m8IVE Cliff Notes: (Thanks @TheTaxMonkey) Rick Vasquez, former ATF agent who worked on the original definition, is speaking with Tim from Military Arms Channel, and his people, on the ATF and their advanced notice for the proposed rule making on bump fire stocks. Rick says to write comments that are meaningful and important so they aren't discarded (he says it is important to comment). Rick says they are looking to define bump stocks as machine guns as "any device that resets a semi-automatic trigger based on its recoil" or something along those lines. The fear is that definition is so vague and broad that could cause problems for us in the future. In other words, everything people like me and others warned could happen back when Congress was looking at this may be happening. Edit: for clarification, by "cause problems" I mean we could face a federal version of what happened in Massachusetts where they "reinterpret" the law on assault weapons to ban things not originally covered under the law. In other words, a unfriendly ATF, in the future, under this ruling, could essentially render most-to-all semi-autos as machine guns. The serious implications for this rule change can not be expressed enough. Please take a couple seconds and a few clicks to support our rights. Follow link below: GOA ATF Action Alert In the last 24 Hours there has been a MASSIVE onslaught of Anti-Gun comments being submitted - WE ARE IN A FIGHT HERE PEOPLE, ACT LIKE IT AND HIT THIS HARD!!! ATF OPEN COMMENT SECTION |
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That's the former ATF agent, Rick Vasquez, who worked on the original interpretation. He's the guy in this video below (not the live stream posted in OP). Interesting discussion.  Meet One Of The Analysts Who Determined That Bump Stocks Were Legal (HBO) |
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Boy, I sure am glad we have the NRA to fight this!  Stand by for the mail telling you your rights are under attack and only if you donate a bit more then maybe they will think about fighting. |
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Anybody feel like providing cliff's notes for those who don't have sound at work? Rick says to write comments that are meaningful and important so they aren't discarded (he says it is important to comment). Rick says they are looking to define bump stocks as machine guns as "any device that resets a semi-automatic trigger based on its recoil" or something along those lines. The fear is that definition is so vague and broad that could cause problems for us in the future. In other words, everything people like me and others warned could happen back when Congress was looking at this may be happening. Edit: for clarification, by "cause problems" I mean we could face a federal version of what happened in Massachusetts where they "reinterpret" the law on assault weapons to ban things not originally covered under the law. In other words, a unfriendly ATF, in the future, under this ruling, could essentially render most-to-all semi-autos as machine guns. |
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Boy, I sure am glad we have the NRA to fight this! "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," And that Marion Hammer guy said: The “bump-stock” device, used by the killer in the Las Vegas shooting, converts a semi-auto rifle to a full-auto rifle. Anyone who has ever used a bump-stock or watched a video demonstrating its use, can only conclude that it is a converter. It was not until later that information was released disclosing that bump-stocks had been used to convert semi-automatic firearms to perform like full-auto firearms. In spite of the seemingly noble reason the manufacturer claims for developing it, the bump-stock circumvents federal law. Regardless of the quality and reliability or lack thereof of this device – it converts a semi-auto to full-auto when installed. And the Republicans have our back as well: “Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said Wednesday the Trump administration should move quickly to ban ‘bump stocks’– a device used in the Las Vegas mass shooting that allows semi-automatic weapons to fire more rapidly,” The Hill reported Wednesday. “’We think the regulatory fix is the smartest, quickest fix, and I’d frankly like to know how it happened in the first place,’ Ryan said at a news conference in the Capitol.” Kinda hard to tell who your friends are sometimes............. |
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Rick Vasquez, former ATF agent who worked on the original definition, is speaking with Tim from Military Arms Channel, and his people, on the ATF and their advanced notice for the proposed rule making on bump fire stocks. Rick says to write comments that are meaningful and important so they aren't discarded (he says it is important to comment). Rick says they are looking to define bump stocks as machine guns as "any device that resets a semi-automatic trigger based on its recoil" or something along those lines. The fear is that definition is so vague and broad that could cause problems for us in the future. In other words, everything people like me and others warned could happen back when Congress was looking at this may be happening. Edit: for clarification, by "cause problems" I mean we could face a federal version of what happened in Massachusetts where they "reinterpret" the law on assault weapons to ban things not originally covered under the law. In other words, a unfriendly ATF, in the future, under this ruling, could essentially render most-to-all semi-autos as machine guns. |
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Letting my NRA membership expire is looking like it was the right decision. This is exactly why I didn’t buy a lifetime membership, no way to hold them accounts after that. FNRA ? Was I dreaming that the NRA opened their cock holsters and welcomed the FATF to reinvestigate whether or not more firearm rights can be infringed upon a few months ago?
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Rick Vasquez, former ATF agent who worked on the original definition, is speaking with Tim from Military Arms Channel, and his people, on the ATF and their advanced notice for the proposed rule making on bump fire stocks. Rick says to write comments that are meaningful and important so they aren't discarded (he says it is important to comment). Rick says they are looking to define bump stocks as machine guns as "any device that resets a semi-automatic trigger based on its recoil" or something along those lines. The fear is that definition is so vague and broad that could cause problems for us in the future. In other words, everything people like me and others warned could happen back when Congress was looking at this may be happening. Edit: for clarification, by "cause problems" I mean we could face a federal version of what happened in Massachusetts where they "reinterpret" the law on assault weapons to ban things not originally covered under the law. In other words, a unfriendly ATF, in the future, under this ruling, could essentially render most-to-all semi-autos as machine guns. Quoted:
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Anybody feel like providing cliff's notes for those who don't have sound at work? Rick says to write comments that are meaningful and important so they aren't discarded (he says it is important to comment). Rick says they are looking to define bump stocks as machine guns as "any device that resets a semi-automatic trigger based on its recoil" or something along those lines. The fear is that definition is so vague and broad that could cause problems for us in the future. In other words, everything people like me and others warned could happen back when Congress was looking at this may be happening. Edit: for clarification, by "cause problems" I mean we could face a federal version of what happened in Massachusetts where they "reinterpret" the law on assault weapons to ban things not originally covered under the law. In other words, a unfriendly ATF, in the future, under this ruling, could essentially render most-to-all semi-autos as machine guns. This is all so fucking dumb. Makes me want to buy a bumpstock just because FATF |
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Quoted: What if you just have a really fast trigger finger? What a creative way to outlaw firearms. Nobody in the public will know about it and the ATF, now or in the future, will just pick people off one by one until dealers/FFLs stop selling them entirely. |
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What’s so ? Was I dreaming that the NRA opened their cock holsters and welcomed the FATF to reinvestigate whether or not more firearm rights can be infringed upon a few months ago?Quoted:
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Letting my NRA membership expire is looking like it was the right decision. This is exactly why I didn’t buy a lifetime membership, no way to hold them accounts after that. FNRA ? Was I dreaming that the NRA opened their cock holsters and welcomed the FATF to reinvestigate whether or not more firearm rights can be infringed upon a few months ago?"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," Key words-"SHOULD BE". 
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Anybody feel like providing cliff's notes for those who don't have sound at work? The current wording of the proposed ruling is not limited to bump-fire stocks, or triggers but encompasses anything that can increase the rate of fire. Could effect mag capacity, or even all semi autos... NRA is heavily pushing this AG session is likely being pressured to make this happen We are being encouraged to make comments on the ATF page (GOA has a how-to page) We need to fight this 
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Quoted: Thanks, TheTaxMonkey This is all so fucking dumb. Makes me want to buy a bumpstock just because FATF It might take you a bit to get it going but once you do it's easy to do. Oh and slight correction: this is not dumb. This is quite clever and I have wondered for years when they would use this line of attack (even before bump stocks were a thing). The definition of a machine gun is so broad and federal courts give so much deference to the ATF and the USG in general that they could very well get away with this. Add to that the federal judiciary's irrational hatred for machine guns and this could be the perfect storm.
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At work myself right now but the highlights are below: The current wording of the proposed ruling is not limited to bump-fire stocks, or triggers but encompasses anything that can increase the rate of fire. Could effect mag capacity, or even all semi autos... NRA is heavily pushing this AG session is likely being pressured to make this happen We are being encouraged to make comments on the ATF page (GOA has a how-to page) We need to fight this Quoted:
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Anybody feel like providing cliff's notes for those who don't have sound at work? The current wording of the proposed ruling is not limited to bump-fire stocks, or triggers but encompasses anything that can increase the rate of fire. Could effect mag capacity, or even all semi autos... NRA is heavily pushing this AG session is likely being pressured to make this happen We are being encouraged to make comments on the ATF page (GOA has a how-to page) We need to fight this |
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Quoted: The NRA is on it!! "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," And that Marion Hammer guy said: The “bump-stock” device, used by the killer in the Las Vegas shooting, converts a semi-auto rifle to a full-auto rifle. Anyone who has ever used a bump-stock or watched a video demonstrating its use, can only conclude that it is a converter. It was not until later that information was released disclosing that bump-stocks had been used to convert semi-automatic firearms to perform like full-auto firearms. In spite of the seemingly noble reason the manufacturer claims for developing it, the bump-stock circumvents federal law. Regardless of the quality and reliability or lack thereof of this device – it converts a semi-auto to full-auto when installed. And the Republicans have our back as well: “Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said Wednesday the Trump administration should move quickly to ban ‘bump stocks’– a device used in the Las Vegas mass shooting that allows semi-automatic weapons to fire more rapidly,” The Hill reported Wednesday. “’We think the regulatory fix is the smartest, quickest fix, and I’d frankly like to know how it happened in the first place,’ Ryan said at a news conference in the Capitol.” Kinda hard to tell who your friends are sometimes............. 
Although the bump stock doesn't mechanically alter the trigger system in a semi-auto rifle to meet the definition of a fully automatic rifle and thus run afoul of NFA, we all know that the intent of the "bump" stock is to simulate automatic fire which it does. This falls into the same legal labyrinth of AR pistols. These are means to circumvent a requirement that is unconstitutional in the first place by using the language of the law against itself. The precedent this will set will allow them to ban AR pistols next by redefining them as SBRs. |
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Quoted: Hell of an uphill battle when the fucking NRA and many Republicans (including Speaker Ryan) are for it............. Ban machine guns but leave semi-autos alone. Well now the anti-gunners have learned how to turn semi-autos into the same thing as a machine gun and the NRA has no argument against it. What are they going to say? "Well machine guns are bad because they fire really fast but these semi-autos are good even though they can fire just as fast?" Nearly a century of argument is gone in an instant so now NRA has to change course or ride this into the ground. I wonder which method they will choose. |
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I posted the NRA quote above,but here it is again: "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," Key words-"SHOULD BE". Quoted:
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Letting my NRA membership expire is looking like it was the right decision. This is exactly why I didn’t buy a lifetime membership, no way to hold them accounts after that. FNRA ? Was I dreaming that the NRA opened their cock holsters and welcomed the FATF to reinvestigate whether or not more firearm rights can be infringed upon a few months ago?"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," Key words-"SHOULD BE". |
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This has the potential to regulate all semi-auto firearms...be sure to submit your comment. Link to regulations.gov to comment |
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That's every barrel. Rick said that was one version he was aware of and that it may change (perhaps made more broad). You can't ban "bump-firing" without fucking with semi-automatic weapons. It can't be done. Again, that may be the point here. |
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Quoted: So, FUDD ranges that require one shot per second were ahead of their time?
Although the bump stock doesn't mechanically alter the trigger system in a semi-auto rifle to meet the definition of a fully automatic rifle and thus run afoul of NFA, we all know that the intent of the "bump" stock is to simulate automatic fire which it does. This falls into the same legal labyrinth of AR pistols. These are means to circumvent a requirement that is unconstitutional in the first place by using the language of the law against itself. The precedent this will set will allow them to ban AR pistols next by redefining them as SBRs. |
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My point exactly. Any gun owner supporting the NRA right now is akin to a battered woman. I know he hits me, but he takes care of me too. He’s really sorry this time. Things will change. He won’t drink any more. He’ll never hit me again. If I just donate a little more money they will get me OTC suppressor sales.... Quoted:
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Letting my NRA membership expire is looking like it was the right decision. This is exactly why I didn’t buy a lifetime membership, no way to hold them accounts after that. FNRA ? Was I dreaming that the NRA opened their cock holsters and welcomed the FATF to reinvestigate whether or not more firearm rights can be infringed upon a few months ago?"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," Key words-"SHOULD BE". I belong to the NRA,but am torn going forward.It's the same as the Republican Party-fixing it from the inside doesn't work (or at least hasn't in my lifetime). Pretty depressing...... |
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I have some work to do but I will be back when I have a chance to post a version of my comment that I am going to submit.
I hope others will do the same. Post comments here. |
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Quoted: No idea what you are talking about, they were all over New Jersey and helping prevent the laws just signed there by an out going governor. Stand by for the mail telling you your rights are under attack and only if you donate a bit more then maybe they will think about fighting. |
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Letting my NRA membership expire is looking like it was the right decision. This is exactly why I didn’t buy a lifetime membership, no way to hold them accounts after that. FNRA |
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And that the NRA would be on the ATF's side in the fight. Quoted:
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Who would of thought we would be in a battle to keep semi-autos out of the NFA. The (R) controls all three branches right now @thebeekeeper1 should explain how great the NRA strategy was............. |