[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cabelas WTH (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 8/6/2017 5:06:27 PM EDT
| Took the grandson to gunshow in Raleigh looking at Winchester rifles today. He leaves for basic in a couple weeks so I was gonna buy him one, so proud of him. We did not find anything he liked so we stopped by Cabelas in Garner to take a look. So low and behold he saw a Wells Fargo he liked and that is when I screwed up the whole day. I was gonna use my Cabelas card to earn points and that was the start of the confusion. The clerk handed me a tablet which I have never used a device like that and would not let my grandson help me with it. So I struggled along while he took my license to make the background check, he returned and informed me that he could not sell the rifle to me because my drivers license were torn and had been taped back together. So I told the grandson that he would have to pay for rifle with cash I gave him at gunshow. This set the hair on that clerk, saying we were trying to make a straw purchase and he could have us incarcerated. That clerk had no idea how little I felt in front of my grandson trying to buy him his first rifle. Man I would surely enjoy an evening with that clerk on the farm. Apologies for the rant, took a while. |
| Sorry about the disappointing situation but when did you think would happen? Â In front of the salesmen of a big chain store that goes the extra length to insure they don't break any laws "the intended buyer changes". Â I think most stores would have a problem with that. Â You should have walked away and made a new plan out of ear range of the clerk. Â Things should be this way but they are and it is the reality we live in right now. |
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That sucks. It wasn't really Cabela's fault..... that is the ATF's fault. They are the ones who have the stupid rules. Sorry.
You can legally buy someone a gun as a gift if they aren't a prohibited person.... but switching people mid stream during 4473 or payment sends red flags to employees. |
| Seems that a lot of people (even here) are confused about what a straw purchase is. It is not illegal to buy your grandson or anyone else a rifle as a gift as long as they themselves are eligible to own the firearm. If you buy a weapon for someone who, for whatever reason, is not legally allowed to own a firearm... THAT is a straw purchase. The clerk is ignorant of the law, but is likely following the store policy. The sale would not have been illegal. You fell victim to the times. Too many stupid laws and nobody understands them. |
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Nothing is simple anymore when it comes to firearms. Gone are the days you could buy a rifle at the grocery store. He kinda did you a favor, a straw purchase is a felony. Think how pissed off you could've been. Every gunstore I know wouldn't have made the sale though. |
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As an ex Cabelas employee, anyone here behind the counter would have done the same thing. The 4473 you did on the tablet, you need to do that yourself, just like the paper form, which you could have requested or to use the desktop computer version.
From the sellers point of view, what you described was a potential straw purchase. They have to be careful about this. |
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Why didn't you just have your grandson fill it out since it was for him?
Years ago I made a gun trade with a friend. He wanted a NIB Ruger Vaquero .45. I went to the gun show, paid for the gun and told my friend to come fill out the 4473 and pick up his gun. Showed the dealer my CWP to show him it wasn't for me since I could buy my own. |
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And BTW, the clerk was an ass for saying that, that he could have OP incarnated. There are more polite ways of saying this looked like a potential straw sale.
I'm guessing OP's grandson was under 18, or may have looked it, and since he wasn't buying gun (OP was) and OP said grandson should pay for it, it now looks like a straw sale. My suggestion to OP is to get your license replaced, and buy the gun to give to GS after he gets back from basic. |
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Why didn't you just have your grandson fill it out since it was for him? Years ago I made a gun trade with a friend. He wanted a NIB Ruger Vaquero .45. I went to the gun show, paid for the gun and told my friend to come fill out the 4473 and pick up his gun. Showed the dealer my CWP to show him it wasn't for me since I could buy my own. 
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Is a torn driver's license grounds for not approving a gun purchase? Seems like any ID would work with it.
These big box retailers won't get my business any more either. Stopped in a Field & Stream store out of state where they had a Stevens shotgun for $100. I started t purchase, had a Georgia drivers license and they said they wouldn't sell it as they didn't know if the gun was legal in GA! What? Are they kidding? |
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True, my mistake. Isn't it still a tremendous shit show to buy someone a gun? Quoted:
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Except it wasn't a straw purchase since there was no prohibited person involved so no felony. Every gunstore I know wouldn't have made the sale though. 
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I wasn't able to buy a gun at an ACE hardware store because I had just renewed my drivers license. My license wasn't expired. It was too new. I think they said they wouldn't except a license that had been renewed within the last 90 days.  I would have asked for the manager.
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@cotntop
The Garner Cabela's gun counter has been all kinds of backwards since that location opened. It's over run with a combination of people who have no idea what they want/people asking for service who have no intent on buying only asking to handle, understaffed(especially on weekends), and in general is working in a poorly managed work flow due to the restrictions/processes put in place by Cabela's corporate. Were you able to get your grandson the gift you wanted to give him? I can understand the guy at the store getting a little edgy when you had to change things around, but I would hope that common sense ruled the day. |
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Seems that a lot of people (even here) are confused about what a straw purchase is. It is not illegal to buy your grandson or anyone else a rifle as a gift as long as they themselves are eligible to own the firearm. If you buy a weapon for someone who, for whatever reason, is not legally allowed to own a firearm... THAT is a straw purchase. The clerk is ignorant of the law, but is likely following the store policy. The sale would not have been illegal. You fell victim to the times. Too many stupid laws and nobody understands them. If you are not the ACTUAL PURCHASER, regardless of eligibility status, it's STRAW. If you buy a gun for someone because it's easier, their card gets declined, they don't have enough money, or WHATEVER, it's straw. EVEN IF they are pefectly legal to purchase themselves. I'll say it again, ELIGIBILITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A STRAW PURCHASE. A LEGITIMATE gift is not straw, as the 4473 says, because you ARE the actual purchaser, who's buying it as a gift. |
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That sucks. It wasn't really Cabela's fault..... that is the ATF's fault. They are the ones who have the stupid rules. Sorry. You can legally buy someone a gun as a gift if they aren't a prohibited person.... but switching people mid stream during 4473 or payment sends red flags to employees. Quoted:
That sucks. It wasn't really Cabela's fault..... that is the ATF's fault. They are the ones who have the stupid rules. Sorry. You can legally buy someone a gun as a gift if they aren't a prohibited person.... but switching people mid stream during 4473 or payment sends red flags to employees. I'd recommend trying elsewhere (since I'm sure the clerk won't understand the difference between gift and straw) but... only after you've had your license replaced with a new one. Quoted:
Is a torn driver's license grounds for not approving a gun purchase? Seems like any ID would work with it. These big box retailers won't get my business any more either. Stopped in a Field & Stream store out of state where they had a Stevens shotgun for $100. I started t purchase, had a Georgia drivers license and they said they wouldn't sell it as they didn't know if the gun was legal in GA! What? Are they kidding? |
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Quoted:
Seems that a lot of people (even here) are confused about what a straw purchase is. It is not illegal to buy your grandson or anyone else a rifle as a gift as long as they themselves are eligible to own the firearm. If you buy a weapon for someone who, for whatever reason, is not legally allowed to own a firearm... THAT is a straw purchase. The clerk is ignorant of the law, but is likely following the store policy. The sale would not have been illegal. You fell victim to the times. Too many stupid laws and nobody understands them. |
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Some of you running your keyboards really need to top spreading bullshit info. It is so easy to educate yourself there is no excuse.
Status of person receiving the firearm has no bearing on whether or not it's a straw purchase. Read the damn 4473. They don't have to be a criminal or prohibited. Just another bad rumor that won't die because a bunch of idiotic people keep passing bad info. I'm also not seeing anything terribly wrong with what Cabelas did @failureToExtract straw included legal non prohibited people @America-first doesn't have to be prohibited @Shortbuss No Quoted:
Wrong wrong WRONG!!11!! If you are not the ACTUAL PURCHASER, regardless of eligibility status, it's STRAW. If you buy a gun for someone because it's easier, their card gets declined, they don't have enough money, or WHATEVER, it's straw. EVEN IF they are pefectly legal to purchase themselves. I'll say it again, ELIGIBILITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A STRAW PURCHASE. A LEGITIMATE gift is not straw, as the 4473 says, because you ARE the actual purchaser, who's buying it as a gift. Quoted:
Quoted:
Seems that a lot of people (even here) are confused about what a straw purchase is. It is not illegal to buy your grandson or anyone else a rifle as a gift as long as they themselves are eligible to own the firearm. If you buy a weapon for someone who, for whatever reason, is not legally allowed to own a firearm... THAT is a straw purchase. The clerk is ignorant of the law, but is likely following the store policy. The sale would not have been illegal. You fell victim to the times. Too many stupid laws and nobody understands them. If you are not the ACTUAL PURCHASER, regardless of eligibility status, it's STRAW. If you buy a gun for someone because it's easier, their card gets declined, they don't have enough money, or WHATEVER, it's straw. EVEN IF they are pefectly legal to purchase themselves. I'll say it again, ELIGIBILITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A STRAW PURCHASE. A LEGITIMATE gift is not straw, as the 4473 says, because you ARE the actual purchaser, who's buying it as a gift. Best solution would have been for OP to give his son a gift card or just get his license fixed. |
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Why didn't you just have your grandson fill it out since it was for him? Years ago I made a gun trade with a friend. He wanted a NIB Ruger Vaquero .45. I went to the gun show, paid for the gun and told my friend to come fill out the 4473 and pick up his gun. Showed the dealer my CWP to show him it wasn't for me since I could buy my own. |
| It all started out I was gonna pay with Cabelas card for points. When broken license became an issue I told grandson he would have to buy his own rifle. Two weeks earlier same clerk took same license on a John Wayne rifle with no problem. Probably bought 50 firearms with broken license no issue. Clerk never offered paper instead of device. Guess I am getting too old for all this. As for how I broke my license was by working with them in my pocket while entering and leaving DOD facilities. The damage would not hardly be noticeable but a guard put clear tape to keep plastic from breaking completely in two pieces. THANKS |
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Is a torn driver's license grounds for not approving a gun purchase? Seems like any ID would work with it. These big box retailers won't get my business any more either. Stopped in a Field & Stream store out of state where they had a Stevens shotgun for $100. I started t purchase, had a Georgia drivers license and they said they wouldn't sell it as they didn't know if the gun was legal in GA! What? Are they kidding? It is the sellers responsibility to make sure the gun they are selling is legal in the buyers home location. If they don't feel like doing that and are overly cautious they'll decline to do the sale. Lots of people really don't comprehend the amount of fear there is on messing this stuff up. ATF has you over a barrel and can take your livelihood in a second. |
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Except it wasn't a straw purchase since there was no prohibited person involved so no felony. Every gunstore I know wouldn't have made the sale though. Quoted:
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Nothing is simple anymore when it comes to firearms. Gone are the days you could buy a rifle at the grocery store. He kinda did you a favor, a straw purchase is a felony. Think how pissed off you could've been. Every gunstore I know wouldn't have made the sale though. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/06/16/supreme-court-affirms-police-officer-s-felony-conviction-for-buying-gun-for-law-abiding-uncle/ |
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As an License holder, I am obligated to refuse, if something does not sound or feel 100% right to me, The Cabela's employee went over line by saying you could be arrested, but he was correct in refusing the sale because something just didn't feel right.
If you are playing in the gun game, you CAN'T have a damaged ID, it needs to be 100%, no questions asked. If your legal ID is not in its original condition as issued, then it is not a valid ID, if the clerk suspected a non valid ID, he has an obligation to say No, I can't sell this gun to you. Anytime a clerk in a gun shop, don't feel right, it is his/hers obligation to refuse. |
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Some of you running your keyboards really need to top spreading bullshit info. It is so easy to educate yourself there is no excuse. Status of person receiving the firearm has no bearing on whether or not it's a straw purchase. Read the damn 4473. They don't have to be a criminal or prohibited. Just another bad rumor that won't die because a bunch of idiotic people keep passing bad info. I'm also not seeing anything terribly wrong with what Cabelas did @failureToExtract straw included legal non prohibited people @America-first doesn't have to be prohibited @Shortbuss No I hope it finally sinks in. Best solution would have been for OP to give his son a gift card or just get his license fixed. A little bit of research has shown that The United States Supreme Court agrees with you regarding what constitutes a straw purchase: http://www.npr.org/2014/06/16/322650543/supreme-court-rules-against-straw-gun-purchases " ............He was sentenced to five years of probation for lying on the federal form by representing himself as the actual buyer. He appealed to the Supreme Court, arguing that his answer on the form was "not material to the lawfulness of the sale" because his uncle could have bought the gun legally on his own. On Monday the high court rejected that argument by a 5-to-4 vote. Writing for the majority, Justice Elena Kagan said that Abramski's reading would completely gut the twin purposes of the law — to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and others who should not have them, and to assist law enforcement authorities in investigating serious crimes." |
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The OP said he was filling out the 4473 as the actual purchaser. He was going to gift the rifle to a non-prohibited person. Not a straw purchase. As for the license, I've told more than a few people they need to get their license taken care of, either because it was expired, or they didn't have current address on it and no govt proof of current address, or it was an out of state license and they wanted to buy a handgun, even if they were a current state resident. The store should have enforced the intact license thing before, but didn't, and now are. ETA I've turned a couple of buyers away because their license was illegible. |
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@ALASKANFIRE A little bit of research has shown that The United States Supreme Court agrees with you regarding what constitutes a straw purchase: http://www.npr.org/2014/06/16/322650543/supreme-court-rules-against-straw-gun-purchases " ............He was sentenced to five years of probation for lying on the federal form by representing himself as the actual buyer. He appealed to the Supreme Court, arguing that his answer on the form was "not material to the lawfulness of the sale" because his uncle could have bought the gun legally on his own. On Monday the high court rejected that argument by a 5-to-4 vote. Writing for the majority, Justice Elena Kagan said that Abramski's reading would completely gut the twin purposes of the law — to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and others who should not have them, and to assist law enforcement authorities in investigating serious crimes." Quoted:
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Some of you running your keyboards really need to top spreading bullshit info. It is so easy to educate yourself there is no excuse. Status of person receiving the firearm has no bearing on whether or not it's a straw purchase. Read the damn 4473. They don't have to be a criminal or prohibited. Just another bad rumor that won't die because a bunch of idiotic people keep passing bad info. I'm also not seeing anything terribly wrong with what Cabelas did @failureToExtract straw included legal non prohibited people @America-first doesn't have to be prohibited @Shortbuss No I hope it finally sinks in. Best solution would have been for OP to give his son a gift card or just get his license fixed. A little bit of research has shown that The United States Supreme Court agrees with you regarding what constitutes a straw purchase: http://www.npr.org/2014/06/16/322650543/supreme-court-rules-against-straw-gun-purchases " ............He was sentenced to five years of probation for lying on the federal form by representing himself as the actual buyer. He appealed to the Supreme Court, arguing that his answer on the form was "not material to the lawfulness of the sale" because his uncle could have bought the gun legally on his own. On Monday the high court rejected that argument by a 5-to-4 vote. Writing for the majority, Justice Elena Kagan said that Abramski's reading would completely gut the twin purposes of the law — to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and others who should not have them, and to assist law enforcement authorities in investigating serious crimes." |
I actually put that up because they are retarded. |
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I wasn't able to buy a gun at an ACE hardware store because I had just renewed my drivers license. My license wasn't expired. It was too new. I think they said they wouldn't except a license that had been renewed within the last 90 days. At the same time, it is 100% up to the ffl or their representative to do the transaction. They are under no obligation to do so and can abort the transaction at any time for any reason. |
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Counter jockey at ACE is a tard. There is no "age of license" requirement for identification purposes. It is either a valid form of ID or it isn't. At the same time, it is 100% up to the ffl or their representative to do the transaction. They are under no obligation to do so and can abort the transaction at any time for any reason. Quoted:
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I wasn't able to buy a gun at an ACE hardware store because I had just renewed my drivers license. My license wasn't expired. It was too new. I think they said they wouldn't except a license that had been renewed within the last 90 days. At the same time, it is 100% up to the ffl or their representative to do the transaction. They are under no obligation to do so and can abort the transaction at any time for any reason. |
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Whoever is filling out the 4473 has to be providing the money or be the name on the credit card; period, the end.
Straw purchases, gifts, etc. are a cluster fuck. I was genuinely nervous saying to my FFL "the gun I'm going to pickup from you is a gift from my wife for my bday, I don't want to see it, just look it over good and box it back up". |
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The OP said he was filling out the 4473 as the actual purchaser. He was going to gift the rifle to a non-prohibited person. Not a straw purchase. |
| My step-son tried to do the same thing for a friend that has a reading disability and SOMEHOW screwed up the 4473. After the decline came back, "just give me your money and i'll buy it for you." Â Wrong answer. Â He got flagged by the store (Walmart) and was pissed he couldnt buy anything. Â I had to explain it to him and eventually gave up after "but he has a reading disability" was used as an excuse more than once. Â Â |
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Store did nothing wrong.
OP you said you knew your license was damaged and has been like this for ages, you should have gotten it replaced. The second you were ineligible to purchase and turned to your son to have him buy it turned this into a mine field of red flags. I don't know a single FFL that would have sold you the gun or your son given what you described. Can you not use your DOD id or your CPL as a form of ID in your state? |
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My father and I both purchased handguns from the Garner Cabela's on separate days last week. Neither of us had any issue.
I did notice that they were extremely careful to triple verify my ID, carry permit and 4473 information. Then called over a second person to look it over and double check there were no errors by the first employee. Everyone was very polite and professional, but it was obvious they were under great pressure from management to make damn sure there were no questions or errors. |