[ARCHIVED THREAD] - HVAC course (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/29/2016 11:01:18 PM EDT
| Is it possible to learn the basics of heating and refrigeration in a 5 month course? Class is 3 hours every Tue and Thur night at the local community college. I'm currently a construction pipe fitter apprentice so I have good mechanical aptitude. Unfortunately I can't afford a full 2 year program right now. Is this worth a grand and 2 nights a week of my time? |
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Is it possible to learn the basics of heating and refrigeration in a 5 month course? Class is 3 hours every Tue and Thur night at the local community college. I'm currently a construction pipe fitter apprentice so I have good mechanical aptitude. Unfortunately I can't afford a full 2 year program right now. Is this worth a grand and 2 nights a week of my time? It should be, if the school has a good reputation. That's the way my classes were structured when I was an apprentice. I had some HVAC guys in my Duct Design & Fabrication class but they were working in that trade full time, like I was working in mine. Most of those apprentice classes are geared towards people who are actively training in their trade. Taking those classes might get you a job as a trainee or apprentice with an HVAC company. |
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Is it possible to learn the basics of heating and refrigeration in a 5 month course? Class is 3 hours every Tue and Thur night at the local community college. I'm currently a construction pipe fitter apprentice so I have good mechanical aptitude. Unfortunately I can't afford a full 2 year program right now. Is this worth a grand and 2 nights a week of my time? I got my HVAC/EPA certifications over a 2 day weekend class. 5 months is more than enough |
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It should be, if the school has a good reputation. That's the way my classes were structured when I was an apprentice. I had some HVAC guys in my Duct Design & Fabrication class but they were working in that trade full time, like I was working in mine. Most of those apprentice classes are geared towards people who are actively training in their trade. Taking those classes might get you a job as a trainee or apprentice with an HVAC company. Thanks for the feedback, I'm leaning towards foing. Just to clarify, I currently work for an HVAC/mechanical contractor so I'm exposed to a bit of HVAC work. Apprentices are either construction oriented (like myself), or service oriented if they've attended a 2year HVAC program. I'm interested in learning both sides of the trade. |
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See if NAPE (National association of Power Engineers) has a chapter in your area. Thats where i took all of my HVAC classes. AC 1 was one night a week for 20 weeks. But hell i could teach you the basics in about an hour
Mostly you need to understand how the basic refrigeration cycle works, pressure/temp values of different refrigerants, subcooling/superheat, and schematics. |
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See if NAPE (National association of Power Engineers) has a chapter in your area. Thats where i took all of my HVAC classes. AC 1 was one night a week for 20 weeks. But hell i could teach you the basics in about an hour Mostly you need to understand how the basic refrigeration cycle works, pressure/temp values of different refrigerants, subcooling/superheat, and schematics. It looks like they only offer online courses in my area. I definitely want a hands on class, but thanks for the suggestion. |
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If i can help in any way shoot me a PM. Im pretty sure i have all my old texbooks notes and tests around here someplace. heck i could ship them too you to borrow for a while if you promise, under penalty of buying me a life membership, to return them LOL
Keep in mind this stuff is probably 15years old and may not cover new topics like R-410A and stuff |
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If i can help in any way shoot me a PM. Im pretty sure i have all my old texbooks notes and tests around here someplace. heck i could ship them too you to borrow for a while if you promise, under penalty of buying me a life membership, to return them LOL Keep in mind this stuff is probably 15years old and may not cover new topics like R-410A and stuff That's an awesome offer, thanks 
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Thanks for the feedback, I'm leaning towards foing. Just to clarify, I currently work for an HVAC/mechanical contractor so I'm exposed to a bit of HVAC work. Apprentices are either construction oriented (like myself), or service oriented if they've attended a 2year HVAC program. I'm interested in learning both sides of the trade. That sounds like a good plan. |
. Hands on training is where it's at. Few months it clicked. Good luck op.
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I got my HVAC/EPA certifications over a 2 day weekend class. 5 months is more than enough If you're talking about your certification to handle refrigerant,well not to hurt your feelings but I could train a monkey to pass that test.You really just have to memorize all the rules and regs.Just because some one passes it doesn't mean they will have a clue how to recover/transfer a 1000# of R134 out of my centrifugal chiller for me. Will you know how to do push/pull,where do you hook up for vapor on the chiller and where do you hook up for liquid.When in the process do you run your chill water and condenser water pumps so you don't freeze up your barrel?They sure don't teach that in the certification class. As far as the OP question 5 months will give you just the most basic of foundations.I went thru a 4 year very good Union apprenticeship and I really didn't consider myself a journeyman till I had a good 10 years in the trade.Now I did start out from the beginning working on centrifugal/screw chillers so my learning curve was quite a bit steeper than someone doing residential or light commercial. There is so much of this trade you can't learn from a book,you've got to be in the field trying to figure out why this thing won't run.There will be so many different scenarios that you will just have to learn by experience not in a classroom.Don't let that scare you,we all started out knowing nothing and doing some really stupid stuff.Just don't think you're going to be a mechanic after 5 months.I would highly recommend this trade if you get into the heavy commercial/industrial side of it. I've got 30 years as a factory chiller/controls mechanic with one of these big 3 (Carrier,Trane,Johnson/York)and it's been very good to me. |
| IMO it is not. It will be helpful for your crrer advancement I am sure though. My apprenticeship was 3-4 hours every Tuesday and Thursday for five years. Even with that, most of your real learning is on the job working with a skilled jman and being self motivated yourself to learn on your own time as well. Can you learn to be a decent parts changer in the time frame you are looking at? Yes. I would say that doesn't make you a service tech. I've been in the trade nearly 15 years at this point and I am constantly humbled at what I can learn at nearly every job I go to. If you have any questions at all ask away. I started with commercial/industrial service. Moved to install/startup/warranty. Now I am doing controls service(this is where you want to be, trust me save your body). |
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Now I am doing controls service(this is where you want to be, trust me save your body). That's the truth.I got the chance to start doing controls about 10 years ago and I jumped on it.Much easier to carry around a laptop than it is pulling on a chainfall tearing a chiller down. |
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If you're talking about your certification to handle refrigerant,well not to hurt your feelings but I could train a monkey to pass that test.You really just have to memorize all the rules and regs.Just because some one passes it doesn't mean they will have a clue how to recover/transfer a 1000# of R134 out of my centrifugal chiller for me. Will you know how to do push/pull,where do you hook up for vapor on the chiller and where do you hook up for liquid.When in the process do you run your chill water and condenser water pumps so you don't freeze up your barrel?They sure don't teach that in the certification class. As far as the OP question 5 months will give you just the most basic of foundations.I went thru a 4 year very good Union apprenticeship and I really didn't consider myself a journeyman till I had a good 10 years in the trade.Now I did start out from the beginning working on centrifugal/screw chillers so my learning curve was quite a bit steeper than someone doing residential or light commercial. There is so much of this trade you can't learn from a book,you've got to be in the field trying to figure out why this thing won't run.There will be so many different scenarios that you will just have to learn by experience not in a classroom.Don't let that scare you,we all started out knowing nothing and doing some really stupid stuff.Just don't think you're going to be a mechanic after 5 months.I would highly recommend this trade if you get into the heavy commercial/industrial side of it. I've got 30 years as a factory chiller/controls mechanic with one of these big 3 (Carrier,Trane,Johnson/York)and it's been very good to me. Listen to this guy, my response was talking about basic concept. I went straight to industrial refrigeration. Once I made my way up to ammonia, things changed and money got much better. Also my wife became a refrigeration widow. Choose wisely OP. Greyghost I'm picking Johnson Controls, only cause you wrote it out with York. What do I win. 
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That's the truth.I got the chance to start doing controls about 10 years ago and I jumped on it.Much easier to carry around a laptop than it is pulling on a chainfall tearing a chiller down. Right or wrong, you get treated significantly better as well. You don't get dirty, you can wear normal clothes(polo and jeans), and everyone leaves you alone because you are performing witchcraft on a computer haha. Reading your reply about messing up as a new apprentice brought back some pretty funny memories. OP one day in the future you will look back at the stupid stuff you did and wonder how you didn't end up dead. You will also want to apologize to a lot of people for thinking you knew everything and were hot shit. I would say what comes next is the most important thing I will write in this thread. Do not get pigeon holed doing only one small aspect of the trade. Shitty employers will find something you are a really good at and keep you there because you make them a lot of money. Next thing you know it's been ten years and you don't know anything. DO NOT BE THIS GUY. Seriously, I cannot stress this enough. Get a well rounded education in many aspects of the trade to develope a solid understanding of mechanical equipment. Do not hesitate to leave a shop and go somewhere else if you are not getting proper training. Regardless of what schooling or training you take your education does not learn there. You must learn on your own time. Hvac-talk is the arfcom of hvac spend some time there. There is an incredible amount of knowledge on that site when you weed through the bs. Do not do anything dangerous you don't feel comfortable doing. You can get killed very fast in the trades and no job, boss, or company is worth dying for. |
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I got my HVAC/EPA certifications over a 2 day weekend class. 5 months is more than enough What was your background before the class. I am in an HVAC & R trainging class 5 days a week 8:15-2:30 from August of this year till sometime around June of next. I am studying this weekend for my 608 and some NCCER tests. Next week I am working on a Split System Heat Pump with Gas Heat. I think we are going to assemble it and start the duct works sometime midweek. |
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If you're talking about your certification to handle refrigerant,well not to hurt your feelings but I could train a monkey to pass that test.You really just have to memorize all the rules and regs.Just because some one passes it doesn't mean they will have a clue how to recover/transfer a 1000# of R134 out of my centrifugal chiller for me. Will you know how to do push/pull,where do you hook up for vapor on the chiller and where do you hook up for liquid.When in the process do you run your chill water and condenser water pumps so you don't freeze up your barrel?They sure don't teach that in the certification class. As far as the OP question 5 months will give you just the most basic of foundations.I went thru a 4 year very good Union apprenticeship and I really didn't consider myself a journeyman till I had a good 10 years in the trade.Now I did start out from the beginning working on centrifugal/screw chillers so my learning curve was quite a bit steeper than someone doing residential or light commercial. There is so much of this trade you can't learn from a book,you've got to be in the field trying to figure out why this thing won't run.There will be so many different scenarios that you will just have to learn by experience not in a classroom.Don't let that scare you,we all started out knowing nothing and doing some really stupid stuff.Just don't think you're going to be a mechanic after 5 months.I would highly recommend this trade if you get into the heavy commercial/industrial side of it. I've got 30 years as a factory chiller/controls mechanic with one of these big 3 (Carrier,Trane,Johnson/York)and it's been very good to me. 1000#s how big is your recovery tanks ?
I was watching a video in class dealing with safety  and in the video there is an opening splash screen with a guy on the roof of a building with a set of gauges on his shoulder and a pink 30 pound refrigerant tank (410) and I started laughing. One of the students who was not paying attention (he was finishing some notes on recovery) asked what was so funny. I told him the guy in the video was going to be taking a lot of trips up a ladder if all he had was 30 pound tanks...he look at the system in picture and said, "I don't think 30 pounds of 410 would even trip the low pressure switch on that unit."
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Specialize, thats the way to go. 18 years in the Scientific Refrigeration field. Never had a layoff, never a dull moment. My body gave out, now I am in sales. The HVAC/Ref business has no limits. Expect back issues 10 years in, knees at 15 years. Yeah, bending over to work on those ULT freezers can get to you after a while. I won't even work on them any more. |
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On the bigger chillers we use 250# and 1000# reclaim cylinders. Quoted:
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1000#s how big is your recovery tanks ? On the bigger chillers we use 250# and 1000# reclaim cylinders. We dump ours into water . Last resort (ammonia) most is transferring into an onsite vessel.
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I took a class like that when in High School. It was a good start and got me ready for the residential HVAC service world and light commercial refrigeration. Its a good primer. 12 Yrs ago when I left the residential/light commercial world and went to work for Trane servicing chillers I felt like I started all over again just at a different pay grade.
My advice is get some schooling like you say and get your foot in the door at a Commercial /Industrial HVAC service company. HVAC is hard on a body especially residential |
| Thanks for all the advice gents. I'm signing up for the class as long as I don't have any unforeseen expenses in the next month and I can swing the tuition. We have a huge shortage of chiller specialists right in the area right now. How does that work compare to working on commercial air handling and rooftop units? |
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Thanks for all the advice gents. I'm signing up for the class as long as I don't have any unforeseen expenses in the next month and I can swing the tuition. We have a huge shortage of chiller specialists right in the area right now. How does that work compare to working on commercial air handling and rooftop units? Guys that work on large centrifugal chillers can make people kiss their feet. Most of the work is inside and there can be a bit of travel. Rooftop units generally involve being on,well... rooftops. Rain, snow, hot, cold, doesn't matter. Get up there and make it go. |
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Is it possible to learn the basics of heating and refrigeration in a 5 month course? Class is 3 hours every Tue and Thur night at the local community college. I'm currently a construction pipe fitter apprentice so I have good mechanical aptitude. Unfortunately I can't afford a full 2 year program right now. Is this worth a grand and 2 nights a week of my time? Basics sure, but stay away from all the large market work. Small niche market is the money, thats what you look for. |
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Guys that work on large centrifugal chillers can make people kiss their feet. Most of the work is inside and there can be a bit of travel. Rooftop units generally involve being on,well... rooftops. Rain, snow, hot, cold, doesn't matter. Get up there and make it go. This...I dont know about the kissing of the feet part, but I love working on chillers, air and water cooled screw and centrifugal. I have 16 chillers and 4 cooling towers under full service contract that accounts for just under 1000hrs of work a year, then repairs on top of that. I average 45 hrs a week, weekends off unless SHTF and am on call 3 times a year. The big rooftops are cool to work on and I have worked on quite a few. The problem is everything you need has to get up there...need a crane to set your van on the roof would be ideal. I dislike Boiler work Building Automation and Controls is getting big and I would recommend you look into that as well, I will most likely transition into that in the next 5-10yrs. |
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Thanks for all the advice gents. I'm signing up for the class as long as I don't have any unforeseen expenses in the next month and I can swing the tuition. We have a huge shortage of chiller specialists right in the area right now. How does that work compare to working on commercial air handling and rooftop units? It's like night and day.With chiller work you'll mostly be inside.Now not all chiller rooms are air conditioned but it still beats being on a roof in Florida in August.There'll be very heavy lifting at times when you do chiller teardowns,replace pumps/coils/motors etc.Most of the time it will be more technical work rather than grunt work.In our trade doing chiller work is at the top of the tier as far as pay,how you are treated,job opportunities etc.It's also the most stressful at times but that comes along with the pay. A good chiller mechanic will never be out of work.Plus it's a very recession proof trade.Unlike residential or light commercial which are very economy influenced because so much of that is construction.I don't care what the economy is doing if they want to keep that office building/hospital/plant open they WILL keep the chillers running.It's a very small select group within our trade.As a business owner or building manager you might let Jim Bob's AC work on your 5 ton split system but you sure aren't going to let them work on your $250,000 chiller. I got very lucky in that I started doing chiller work from day one.After 20 years of doing that I was able to start doing controls work about 10 years ago.Somebody that can do chillers and controls is very rare in our trade.A good chiller mechanic can go anywhere in the country and find a job.With all due respect here is how the hierarchy is as far as pay/benefits/conditions..... Chillers/Industrial>Heavy Commercial>Light Commercial>Residential |
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This...I dont know about the kissing of the feet part, but I love working on chillers, air and water cooled screw and centrifugal. I have 16 chillers and 4 cooling towers under full service contract that accounts for just under 1000hrs of work a year, then repairs on top of that. I average 45 hrs a week, weekends off unless SHTF and am on call 3 times a year. The big rooftops are cool to work on and I have worked on quite a few. The problem is everything you need has to get up there...need a crane to set your van on the roof would be ideal. I dislike Boiler work Building Automation and Controls is getting big and I would recommend you look into that as well, I will most likely transition into that in the next 5-10yrs. What kind of educational background/training do you have if you don't mind sharing? |
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I got my HVAC/EPA certifications over a 2 day weekend class. 5 months is more than enough Really? You don't have to know shit about Hvac to get your EPA certs. You can get the jest in 5 months. There's a reason most apprenticeship schools are 5 years. The company I work for has apprentice training on top of the apprenticeship school. At the end of the first year must can handle basic service calls on their own. The learn OJT and two nights a week. |
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Thanks for the feedback, I'm leaning towards foing. Just to clarify, I currently work for an HVAC/mechanical contractor so I'm exposed to a bit of HVAC work. Apprentices are either construction oriented (like myself), or service oriented if they've attended a 2year HVAC program. I'm interested in learning both sides of the trade. |
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That's the truth.I got the chance to start doing controls about 10 years ago and I jumped on it.Much easier to carry around a laptop than it is pulling on a chainfall tearing a chiller down. Quoted:
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Now I am doing controls service(this is where you want to be, trust me save your body). Why you no like chilla gorilla? |
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One thing i dont miss, punching tubes on our York centrifugals. The management company i worked for hated spending money, so they wouldnt even fork over money for a Goodway machine.
From 1997-2007 i punched those fuckers manually with the long fiberglass cleaning rods and a garden hose. |
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One of the local HVAC companies is always recruiting new workers to train. Yesterday I noticed one of their billboards is recruiting women for the jobs.
Location is St. Charles, Mo. Their web site outlines their requirements and deadlines for completing certifications after starting. |
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One of the local HVAC companies is always recruiting new workers to train. Yesterday I noticed one of their billboards is recruiting women for the jobs. Location is St. Charles, Mo. It's the latest craze. We just hired a girl. She's changing over from pipefitter |
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OP there are other avenues for you to go down once you have your certifications and experience.
Stationary Building Engineer is one. You just have to figure out what YOU want. I didnt like constantly travelling to different places. I became a building engineer and i oversee the operation of a 300 square foot office building. I go to the same building every day. Its nice IMO If you choose to do that, make sure you are getting placed in a nice building with either a central plant or self contained units with VAVs. Anything but stay away from medical office, that sucks and they ususlly have 100 roof to units. You dont want roof top units, ugh. |
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See if NAPE (National association of Power Engineers) has a chapter in your area. Thats where i took all of my HVAC classes. AC 1 was one night a week for 20 weeks. But hell i could teach you the basics in about an hour Mostly you need to understand how the basic refrigeration cycle works, pressure/temp values of different refrigerants, subcooling/superheat, and schematics. I did the whole 2 year deal at a local trade school right after high school and consider, in hindsight, that 2 years was just a way for the state to extract tuition money. This poster is correct. Basic Electrical/Schematics was the hardest part for me and, as it turned out, the most valuable. I quickly abandoned A/C to become an electrician. :) |
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It's the latest craze. We just hired a girl. She's changing over from pipefitter Quoted:
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One of the local HVAC companies is always recruiting new workers to train. Yesterday I noticed one of their billboards is recruiting women for the jobs. Location is St. Charles, Mo. It's the latest craze. We just hired a girl. She's changing over from pipefitter Why not, women tend understand they ought to grow up. A high school buddy is an attorney. One of his daughter's is an electrician. I know of another company here that has a young, competent gal working as an electrician. Residential hvac has little heavy lifting, very little or none that a reasonably fit woman can't handle. The critical stuff requires brains. |
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Is it possible to learn the basics of heating and refrigeration in a 5 month course? Class is 3 hours every Tue and Thur night at the local community college. I'm currently a construction pipe fitter apprentice so I have good mechanical aptitude. Unfortunately I can't afford a full 2 year program right now. Is this worth a grand and 2 nights a week of my time? The very very basics. You need the longer course and then go through an apprenticeship to be properly able to work in the HVAC Field on your own. If you get in with a group willing to let you go slow you may be ok. We hired a guy for one of our smaller outlyer facilities who just had the basic paper and b.s'ed his actual experience a while back and they had to fire him as he didn't know how to really do the job. The ywill not hire anyone out of the basic course anymore. |
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Why not, women tend understand they ought to grow up. A high school buddy is an attorney. One of his daughter's is an electrician. I know of another company here that has a young, competent gal working as an electrician. Residential hvac has little heavy lifting, very little or none that a reasonably fit woman can't handle. The critical stuff requires brains. |
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One thing i dont miss, punching tubes on our York centrifugals. The management company i worked for hated spending money, so they wouldnt even fork over money for a Goodway machine. From 1997-2007 i punched those fuckers manually with the long fiberglass cleaning rods and a garden hose. Talk about penny wise pound foolish.They could have payed for the Goodway machine with the labor hours saved the first time they used it.I got in the trade in 1982 and even I have never had to do them by hand. |
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One of the local HVAC companies is always recruiting new workers to train. Yesterday I noticed one of their billboards is recruiting women for the jobs. Location is St. Charles, Mo. Their web site outlines their requirements and deadlines for completing certifications after starting. There's no reason a woman couldn't do the technical side but she's not going to be able to keep up when it's time to change a cooling tower motor or do a chiller teardown or replace a 50 hp pump.She might be ok if she stayed residential where the heaviest thing might be a condenser. |
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Talk about penny wise pound foolish.They could have payed for the Goodway machine with the labor hours saved the first time they used it.I got in the trade in 1982 and even I have never had to do them by hand. I had to hand feed the ultrasound machine leed through both of our chillers tubes a couple winters ago. Most boring, time consuming thing I have ever had to do 
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There's no reason a woman couldn't do the technical side but she's not going to be able to keep up when it's time to change a cooling tower motor or do a chiller teardown or replace a 50 hp pump.She might be ok if she stayed residential where the heaviest thing might be a condenser. Really? 
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