[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How to remove space junk? (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 11/20/2016 8:58:45 PM EDT
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I've been reading and thinking about space exploration and what a mess we've made of our own orbital space. The question is how do we clean it up? Is it feasible? Could someone start a business and charge the governments that have littered our area around earth? Kind of a BFI in space?
Pieces of spacecraft and debris going that fast would be hard to capture. Unless you could match speed with the object it could teara hook in your trash collector. How about a laser platform that shoots at small pieces as they go by? Could you vaporize something sufficiently to render it harmless at 30k mph? These are just my idle musings. What are your ideas? Go. |
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Using present technology, there is not enough money in the world....not hyperbole, literally not enough money on the planet, to mechanically collect all the man made debris in orbit.
Doing things in space is expensive. Among the most expensive human endeavors of all time. For example, the most expensive thing man has every built, probably even historically, is the International Space Station. It's value exceeds the construction cost of all the current aircraft carriers in the world combined. |
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Orbital decay and re-entry into atmosphere will probably burn most of it up over time. Some of that junk had been up there a long time. They are talking about flakes of paint that can hole the ISS. I guess the question is: is it worth it? I know it will eventually fall back to Earth, but would it pay to clean up the mess? |
 Salvage-1 Opening theme Season 1 Starring Andy Griffith |
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The hell with the old owner, the equipment is abandoned once it stops operating.
The number one obstacle is the ability to carry enough fuel to maneuver to a target. The next one is a vehicle that is large enough to stow the payload inside so the re-entry aerodynamics are similar for each flight. Some satellites are so large that the only way to bring one back might be to cut them up in orbit first. Another option is to boost the junk into an orbit that takes it to the Sun. But that is wasteful of lots of great materials for salvage. There's an optimum point where some satellites (or a portion) are returned to Earth for reclamation, some pieces are sent to the Sun, and some parts are collected in a high junk yard for work later. Expensive. |
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The hell with the old owner, the equipment is abandoned once it stops operating. The number one obstacle is the ability to carry enough fuel to maneuver to a target. The next one is a vehicle that is large enough to stow the payload inside so the re-entry aerodynamics are similar for each flight. Some satellites are so large that the only way to bring one back might be to cut them up in orbit first. Another option is to boost the junk into an orbit that takes it to the Sun. But that is wasteful of lots of great materials for salvage. There's an optimum point where some satellites (or a portion) are returned to Earth for reclamation, some pieces are sent to the Sun, and some parts are collected in a high junk yard for work later. Expensive. Lol. People keep saying that we should send shit into the sun like it would be cheap. It would literally be easier to send crap to Jupiter than it would be to send it into the sun, |
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Quoted: Lol. People keep saying that we should send shit into the sun like it would be cheap. It would literally be easier to send crap to Jupiter than it would be to send it into the sun, Quoted: Quoted: The hell with the old owner, the equipment is abandoned once it stops operating. The number one obstacle is the ability to carry enough fuel to maneuver to a target. The next one is a vehicle that is large enough to stow the payload inside so the re-entry aerodynamics are similar for each flight. Some satellites are so large that the only way to bring one back might be to cut them up in orbit first. Another option is to boost the junk into an orbit that takes it to the Sun. But that is wasteful of lots of great materials for salvage. There's an optimum point where some satellites (or a portion) are returned to Earth for reclamation, some pieces are sent to the Sun, and some parts are collected in a high junk yard for work later. Expensive. Lol. People keep saying that we should send shit into the sun like it would be cheap. It would literally be easier to send crap to Jupiter than it would be to send it into the sun, I don't know what your problem is, but everything I want to get rid of I just wait until the sun is up, go outside, then chuck it at the sun. The sun is large and has a large gravitational pull. |
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Lol. People keep saying that we should send shit into the sun like it would be cheap. It would literally be easier to send crap to Jupiter than it would be to send it into the sun, Quoted:
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The hell with the old owner, the equipment is abandoned once it stops operating. The number one obstacle is the ability to carry enough fuel to maneuver to a target. The next one is a vehicle that is large enough to stow the payload inside so the re-entry aerodynamics are similar for each flight. Some satellites are so large that the only way to bring one back might be to cut them up in orbit first. Another option is to boost the junk into an orbit that takes it to the Sun. But that is wasteful of lots of great materials for salvage. There's an optimum point where some satellites (or a portion) are returned to Earth for reclamation, some pieces are sent to the Sun, and some parts are collected in a high junk yard for work later. Expensive. Lol. People keep saying that we should send shit into the sun like it would be cheap. It would literally be easier to send crap to Jupiter than it would be to send it into the sun, Imagine we send our junk to jupiter and then jupiter aliens get all pissed off and are like we were totally going to leave you earthlings alone but now i kinda got to fuck you up. All the other aliens are watching and i cant just let that shit slide. The sun has no inhabitants. Gauranteed. We wont piss anyone aliens off. So i think the cost is worth it. |
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Quoted: Another option is to boost the junk into an orbit that takes it to the Sun. But that is wasteful of lots of great materials for salvage. There's an optimum point where some satellites (or a portion) are returned to Earth for reclamation, some pieces are sent to the Sun, and some parts are collected in a high junk yard for work later. Expensive. Um... Boost it into an orbit that takes it to the sun? You seem like an educated, smart, and sciency fellow. You don't boost things into a sun intercept orbit cheaply, or for purposes of disposal. Deorbiting them, whether they burn up or not is a far wiser move. Suggestions to send anything to the sun for cheap disposal is pure folly. |
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Why cant we just throw all the garbage into the sun? The sun has massive gravitational pull at its surface so just push everything towards it and let it gravity take care of the rest. Then we can send our garbage up there also. Sounds like a win win Again, there is not enough money in the world to send our stuff into the sun. Escape velocity is pretty expensive. Without looking through all the missions, humans have probably achieved escape velocity successfully less than 100 times. It probably amounts to a few hundred tons total with a cost of a trillion or two in today's dollars. To do that with our trash, we would have to do what we have done hundreds of times a second. It would probably take less than 2 minutes of that to equal all the wealth in all of human history. That is one hell of a reality. Space is expensive. |
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Quoted: Why cant we just throw all the garbage into the sun? The sun has massive gravitational pull at its surface so just push everything towards it and let it gravity take care of the rest. Then we can send our garbage up there also. Sounds like a win win It sounds so easy doesn't it...  The Delta-vee required is stunning. |
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I see what you did. |
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Option 1 I would place a low power laser platform in space and pulse the targeted satellites knocking them out of orbit without blowing them to pieces.This would pushe them back to Earth and burn up. This can also be used on the space debris that is also up there. Option 2 Build hunter collector satellites that collect the space junk and take it to a processing platform to recycle the materials to build a ship or station in orbit. |
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Quoted: Imagine we send our junk to jupiter and then jupiter aliens get all pissed off and are like we were totally going to leave you earthlings alone but now i kinda got to fuck you up. All the other aliens are watching and i cant just let that shit slide. The sun has no inhabitants. Gauranteed. We wont piss anyone aliens off. So i think the cost is worth it. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The hell with the old owner, the equipment is abandoned once it stops operating. The number one obstacle is the ability to carry enough fuel to maneuver to a target. The next one is a vehicle that is large enough to stow the payload inside so the re-entry aerodynamics are similar for each flight. Some satellites are so large that the only way to bring one back might be to cut them up in orbit first. Another option is to boost the junk into an orbit that takes it to the Sun. But that is wasteful of lots of great materials for salvage. There's an optimum point where some satellites (or a portion) are returned to Earth for reclamation, some pieces are sent to the Sun, and some parts are collected in a high junk yard for work later. Expensive. Lol. People keep saying that we should send shit into the sun like it would be cheap. It would literally be easier to send crap to Jupiter than it would be to send it into the sun, Imagine we send our junk to jupiter and then jupiter aliens get all pissed off and are like we were totally going to leave you earthlings alone but now i kinda got to fuck you up. All the other aliens are watching and i cant just let that shit slide. The sun has no inhabitants. Gauranteed. We wont piss anyone aliens off. So i think the cost is worth it. They will thank us for the carbon contribution to the enormous diamond in the core of their homeworld. |
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Um... Boost it into an orbit that takes it to the sun? You seem like an educated, smart, and sciency fellow. You don't boost things into a sun intercept orbit cheaply, or for purposes of disposal. Deorbiting them, whether they burn up or not is a far wiser move. Suggestions to send anything to the sun for cheap disposal is pure folly. Quoted:
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Another option is to boost the junk into an orbit that takes it to the Sun. But that is wasteful of lots of great materials for salvage. There's an optimum point where some satellites (or a portion) are returned to Earth for reclamation, some pieces are sent to the Sun, and some parts are collected in a high junk yard for work later. Expensive. Um... Boost it into an orbit that takes it to the sun? You seem like an educated, smart, and sciency fellow. You don't boost things into a sun intercept orbit cheaply, or for purposes of disposal. Deorbiting them, whether they burn up or not is a far wiser move. Suggestions to send anything to the sun for cheap disposal is pure folly. We have a few Saturn S-IVB stages in heliocentric orbit (I believe Apollo X was the last to do this, the rest of the same S-IVB Apollo boosters crashed on the lunar surface, IIRC) |
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Quoted: Why cant we just throw all the garbage into the sun? The sun has massive gravitational pull at its surface so just push everything towards it and let it gravity take care of the rest. Then we can send our garbage up there also. Sounds like a win win First, you have to get to it, which is a ridiculously expensive proposition (problem one: the gravity well). Then you have to change it's trajectory/orbit (problem two, delta-v), another expensive proposition, which equals: Any fuel you need to solve problem two has to be part of problem one. |
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First, you have to get to it, which is a ridiculously expensive proposition (problem one: the gravity well). Then you have to change it's trajectory/orbit (problem two, delta-v), another expensive proposition, which equals: Any fuel you need to solve problem two has to be part of problem one. Quoted:
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Why cant we just throw all the garbage into the sun? The sun has massive gravitational pull at its surface so just push everything towards it and let it gravity take care of the rest. Then we can send our garbage up there also. Sounds like a win win First, you have to get to it, which is a ridiculously expensive proposition (problem one: the gravity well). Then you have to change it's trajectory/orbit (problem two, delta-v), another expensive proposition, which equals: Any fuel you need to solve problem two has to be part of problem one. How about the moon? |
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Quoted: Yup, time + gravity will clear up most of what's up there Quoted: Quoted: Orbital decay and re-entry into atmosphere will probably burn most of it up over time. Yup, time + gravity will clear up most of what's up there No, for a few reasons. First, still shit up there after 50+ years. Second, no slowing of us putting shit up there.Third, google Kessler Syndrome; very bad shit. |
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Quoted: Space is a vacuum, don't you even science bro? In fact, due to recent discoveries, we now know it is a Dyson - cause that's the perfect vacuum. Quoted: Quoted: Space Vacuum Space is a vacuum, don't you even science bro? In fact, due to recent discoveries, we now know it is a Dyson - cause that's the perfect vacuum.   |