[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is Diesel Fuel Additive Necessary? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/1/2016 3:55:23 PM EDT
| My dad drove VW diesels since they came out. He burned #1 or blended when it was cold, and #2 when the weather got warmer. I don't recall him ever buying fuel additives. Now that I own a 6.7 Powerstroke, I figured I'd just do as my dad did. My brother in law and my nephew (not experts) both recommend that I should use fuel additive. So what's GD's opinion on fuel additives? |
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For a 6.7 you shouldn't need any. Being in SD, I assume you might need some to prevent gelling. Foxtrot08 should know what the latest and greatest are. I have a 2013 6.7 and live in the Frozen North of Michigan. I have never used diesel additive, and my engine is just fine. |
| I use injector cleaner plus cetane boost year round. As winter hits I use the bottle that anti gels as well. If there is a milage difference its small. Like 1mpg or less. I really notice a difference in power when the the temp drops and the winter fuel is running. YMMV |
| It is only "necessary" in sub freezing weather to add an Anti Gelling" additive and it doesn't take much. See directions on bottle. I do occasionally use Lucas fuel treatment as a cleaner and lube. I do get great mileage when I use a strong concentration of Lucas. Got 26 measured mpg in my 6500 lb 12 valve 3/4 ton 4X4 Dodge on a road trip once. |
| When I was driving OTR I used Howes after seeing how well it kept down the algae slime that formed in the fuel system during summer months and to fight gelling during the winter. Before I started using it I had problems with fuel contamination with slime when our company switched to using cheap fuel stops instead of TA fuel stops where they put antigel and anti-algae additives in the diesel. |
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When I was driving OTR I used Howes after seeing how well it kept down the algae slime that formed in the fuel system during summer months and to fight gelling during the winter. Before I started using it I had problems with fuel contamination with slime when our company switched to using cheap fuel stops instead of TA fuel stops where they put antigel and anti-algae additives in the diesel. That's interesting...I've never heard of algae problems besides contaminating old fuel. I am concerned about gelling and what effects of the low sulphur fuel these days. I usually get my fuel at Ampride, which I think is supposed to be good fuel. |
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Diesel 911 and extra fuel filters where what I always kept just in case. Quoted:
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In to learn. I just got a 6.6L duramax, so I'm new to this stuff. Diesel 911 and extra fuel filters where what I always kept just in case. That's what most of the truckers I know use/keep up here in NEO. I have used the ford brand stuff and never had an issue, I used it as a just in case due to the ulsd |
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Being that the 6.7 powerstroke was made starting in 2011, it should run on ULSD without major issues, but if you want to reduce wear even further, take a look at these additives.
This was on one of the forums In Order Of Performance: 1) 2% REG SoyPower biodiesel HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement. 50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel 66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel Price: market value 2)Opti-Lube XPD Multi-purpose + anti-gel cetane improver, demulsifier HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement. 256:1 ratio 13 oz/tank $4.35/tank 3)FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas fuel treatment Gas and Diesel cetane improver, emulsifier HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.60/tank 4)Opti-Lube Summer Blend Multi-purpose demulsifier HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement 3000:1 ratio 1.11 oz/tank $0.68/tank 5)Opti-Lube Winter Blend Muti-purpose + anti-gel cetane improver HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement 512:1 ratio 6.5 oz/tank $3.65/tank 6)Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000 Multi-purpose + anti-gel cetane improver, emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.87/tank 7)Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems) HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank $1.09/tank 8)Stanadyne Lubricity Formula Lubricity Only demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.00/tank 9)Amsoil Diesel Concentrate Multi-purpose demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement 640:1 ratio 5.2 oz/tank $2.16/tank 10)Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost Multi-purpose Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement 400:1 ratio 8.32 oz/tank $1.58/tank 11)Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner Multi-purpose Alcohol free HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.36/tank 12)Stanadyne Performance Formula Multi-purpose + anti-gel cetane improver, demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement 480:1 ratio 6.9 oz/tank $4.35/tank 13)Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15w40, 5,000 miles used. Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems) HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement 200:1 ratio 16.64 oz/tank price: market value 14)Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant Gas or diesel HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 427:1 ratio 7.8 oz/tank $2.65/tank 15)B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change) 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.67/tank 16)FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power Multi-purpose + anti-gel Emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $1.12/tank 17)Marvel Mystery Oil Gas, oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems) HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel. 320:1 ratio 10.4 oz/tank $3.22/tank 18)ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty/Marine Diesel Fuel Additive Multi-purpose Cetane improver, emulsifier, alcohol free HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel 1000:1 ratio 3.32 oz/tank $2.38/tank 19)Primrose Power Blend 2003 Multi-purpose Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, emulsifier HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline 1066:1 ratio 3.12 oz/tank $1.39/tank CONCLUSIONS: Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the most strict requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association. Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel. Products 16 through 19 were found to cause the fuel/additive blend to perform worse than the baseline fuel. The cause for this is speculative. This is not unprecedented in HFRR testing and can be caused by alcohol or other components in the additives. Further investigation into the possibilities behind these poor results will investigated. Any additive testing within +/- 20 microns of the baseline fuel could be considered to have no significant change. The repeatability of this test allows for a +/- 20 micron variability to be considered insignificant. http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-7-discussion-2011-2016/222024-fuel-addative-6-7-a-1.html Copy of Diesel fuel additive version 3.pdf http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-7-discussion-2011-2016/222024-fuel-addative-6-7-a-2.html http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76-speciality-forums/64-maintenance-fluids/177728-lubricity-additive-study-results.html |
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I add some in the fall and spring. I was always under the assumption that summer blend diesel didn't have anti-gel in it and wanted to make sure I didn't have issues if it got cold with some of the summer blend still in my tank.
I could be completely wrong, but that's the way it works when I buy bulk off-road diesel for the farm toys. |
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Make sure you don't lose the stupid circular paper gasket thingy from the cap into the gas tank when you pour the stuff in.
My buddy had to pull the bed on his 2500HD and clean/drain the tank because the idiot that owned it before him got a bunch of those into the fuel tank, and they clogged the fuel pump. |
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I have a 2013 6.7 and live in the Frozen North of Michigan. I have never used diesel additive, and my engine is just fine. Quoted:
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For a 6.7 you shouldn't need any. Being in SD, I assume you might need some to prevent gelling. Foxtrot08 should know what the latest and greatest are. I have a 2013 6.7 and live in the Frozen North of Michigan. I have never used diesel additive, and my engine is just fine. I also live in a place with cold winters and mine never has trouble. |
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Not sure how your stores up there are doing with BIO fuels, but down here they go between 5-20% BIO mass. We should stop doing the heavy bio shortly with the colder weather though, and we'll only go up to B5. B5-B20 will gel up if not heated or treated if the Temps get cold enough. We put 2.5gals of additive in for every 7500gals delivered, but that is mainly on keep it from gelling at the pump. So some Howes with each fill up should keep you from gelling up. Around here when we pull from the pipeline racks, the #2 FO can be down to around 32° as it's being loaded, right now it's sitting anywhere from 55°-85°, but that will change when the temps drop down.
Most semis today have tank heating in the fuel/Def tanks...radiator coolent lines that run through them to keep the fuel and def from getting too cold and freezing in the case of DEF, or gelling in the case of diesel. |
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Technically, no.
Are most on the market junk? Yes. Are there some really good ones on the market that do work? Yes. Bigger concern is find out where your fuel comes from first before you even look at fuel additives. Once you maintain a consistent source of fuel, then you select a fuel additive to combat the problem with that fuel. There are some fuels on the market that cannot be treated by any additives. Period. Edit If you use used oil, or 2 cycle in a modern engine, then complain about repair costs or maintenance costs... Well, there's your fucking problem. |
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07 lbz
I run the diesel heat for a bit at the beginning of summer and winter to try and dry some of any possible water out. probably doesnt do shit. when I first got the truck, I was paranoid about lubricity, so I would dump a small jug of 2 stroke oil in with every tank. probably didnt do shit one way or the other but made the exhaust smell awesome. any leftover new clean oil from oil changes goes into the tank. same for if I find a half jug of 10/30 or something. in she goes. hasnt blown anything up yet. |
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07 lbz I run the diesel heat for a bit at the beginning of summer and winter to try and dry some of any possible water out. probably doesnt do shit. when I first got the truck, I was paranoid about lubricity, so I would dump a small jug of 2 stroke oil in with every tank. probably didnt do shit one way or the other but made the exhaust smell awesome. any leftover new clean oil from oil changes goes into the tank. same for if I find a half jug of 10/30 or something. in she goes. hasnt blown anything up yet. Certainly bad for your egr, injectors and turbo. |
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Quoted: Certainly bad for your egr, injectors and turbo. Quoted: Quoted: 07 lbz I run the diesel heat for a bit at the beginning of summer and winter to try and dry some of any possible water out. probably doesnt do shit. when I first got the truck, I was paranoid about lubricity, so I would dump a small jug of 2 stroke oil in with every tank. probably didnt do shit one way or the other but made the exhaust smell awesome. any leftover new clean oil from oil changes goes into the tank. same for if I find a half jug of 10/30 or something. in she goes. hasnt blown anything up yet. Certainly bad for your egr, injectors and turbo. I would do that all day long on an old CUCV or deuce and a half, no way in hell I'd do it on a common rail. |
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Certainly bad for your egr, injectors and turbo. Quoted:
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07 lbz I run the diesel heat for a bit at the beginning of summer and winter to try and dry some of any possible water out. probably doesnt do shit. when I first got the truck, I was paranoid about lubricity, so I would dump a small jug of 2 stroke oil in with every tank. probably didnt do shit one way or the other but made the exhaust smell awesome. any leftover new clean oil from oil changes goes into the tank. same for if I find a half jug of 10/30 or something. in she goes. hasnt blown anything up yet. Certainly bad for your egr, injectors and turbo. maybeee I can see it doing something to the injectors but how is it going to affect the turbo one way or the other? coking or something? |
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I use Powerservice in the grey bottle.
I started using immediately after changing my fuel filters, within 4000 miles they were plugged up, so it obviously does it's job of keeping things clean. It's also a Cetane booster, so it helps give it a more efficient burn at the right time in the cycle. My truck definitely runs smoother with it. I use half a bottle per fill up, costs about $10/bottle. |
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lucas has been in every diesel we've ran since about '03 had one injector go on an '03 T300, everything else has chugged along just fine Lucas and post 2011 engines don't go well together. You do not want something that increases the viscosity level of the fuel like Lucas does. Surfactant based fuel additives are best. |
| We ran power service in our equipment and thats what we stocked for customers for years. Kenworth recommends, I believe howes. We are now carrying penray brand additives. With the addition of biofuels in the diesel, you should start treatment about 35 instead of 0 degs like it was with old sulfur fuel. Be sure to follow the directions on the bottle or website, if you don't know how much bio is in the fuel, treat for the max. If there is a cold snap here in the 10 deg range or less, we will spend two to three days thawing tanks, changing fuel filters, and adding the additives that the drivers should have been doing at fill ups. Nothing worse then waiting for a tow truck, in the middle of winter, with an engine that doesn't run. We had a customer add coolant heaters to their entire fleet after one episode of cold weather where they had a couple of trucks gel up. Its not good for business when your propane trucks cant deliver. |
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I use Powerservice in the grey bottle. I started using immediately after changing my fuel filters, within 4000 miles they were plugged up, so it obviously does it's job of keeping things clean. It's also a Cetane booster, so it helps give it a more efficient burn at the right time in the cycle. My truck definitely runs smoother with it. I use half a bottle per fill up, costs about $10/bottle. PowerService is the real deal. In my 07 LBZ it evened out the balance rates on the injectors by a noticeable amount and idled smoother. Now in my 5.9 Cummins, I can't really tell a difference. |
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PowerService is the real deal. In my 07 LBZ it evened out the balance rates on the injectors by a noticeable amount and idled smoother. Now in my 5.9 Cummins, I can't really tell a difference. Quoted:
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I use Powerservice in the grey bottle. I started using immediately after changing my fuel filters, within 4000 miles they were plugged up, so it obviously does it's job of keeping things clean. It's also a Cetane booster, so it helps give it a more efficient burn at the right time in the cycle. My truck definitely runs smoother with it. I use half a bottle per fill up, costs about $10/bottle. PowerService is the real deal. In my 07 LBZ it evened out the balance rates on the injectors by a noticeable amount and idled smoother. Now in my 5.9 Cummins, I can't really tell a difference. Not a huge fan. Mostly because it's not that much different then many other players on the market. Their bio-kleen does work if you have an existing bacteria issue, however. Fun fact. The majority of fuel additives come out of the same tank at the same blending facility. And the majority of surfactant based fuels additives come from another blending facility. Not many companies actually make their own fuel additives. |
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Lucas and post 2011 engines don't go well together. You do not want something that increases the viscosity level of the fuel like Lucas does. Surfactant based fuel additives are best. Quoted:
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lucas has been in every diesel we've ran since about '03 had one injector go on an '03 T300, everything else has chugged along just fine Lucas and post 2011 engines don't go well together. You do not want something that increases the viscosity level of the fuel like Lucas does. Surfactant based fuel additives are best. Nothing newer than that but a kubota rtv 337 Pete coming in next week though Why you no want oil in ulsd? |
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Nothing newer than that but a kubota rtv 337 Pete coming in next week though Why you no want oil in ulsd? Quoted:
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lucas has been in every diesel we've ran since about '03 had one injector go on an '03 T300, everything else has chugged along just fine Lucas and post 2011 engines don't go well together. You do not want something that increases the viscosity level of the fuel like Lucas does. Surfactant based fuel additives are best. Nothing newer than that but a kubota rtv 337 Pete coming in next week though Why you no want oil in ulsd? Fucks up the spray patterns of the injectors. Doesn't burn completely which will eventually gum up EGRs and VGTs. In a 2008+ truck with DPF, the ash from the oil will case excessive plugging of the DPF filters. Will also pre-maturely plug fuel filters. |
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Not a huge fan. Mostly because it's not that much different then many other players on the market. Their bio-kleen does work if you have an existing bacteria issue, however. Fun fact. The majority of fuel additives come out of the same tank at the same blending facility. And the majority of surfactant based fuels additives come from another blending facility. Not many companies actually make their own fuel additives. Quoted:
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I use Powerservice in the grey bottle. I started using immediately after changing my fuel filters, within 4000 miles they were plugged up, so it obviously does it's job of keeping things clean. It's also a Cetane booster, so it helps give it a more efficient burn at the right time in the cycle. My truck definitely runs smoother with it. I use half a bottle per fill up, costs about $10/bottle. PowerService is the real deal. In my 07 LBZ it evened out the balance rates on the injectors by a noticeable amount and idled smoother. Now in my 5.9 Cummins, I can't really tell a difference. Not a huge fan. Mostly because it's not that much different then many other players on the market. Their bio-kleen does work if you have an existing bacteria issue, however. Fun fact. The majority of fuel additives come out of the same tank at the same blending facility. And the majority of surfactant based fuels additives come from another blending facility. Not many companies actually make their own fuel additives. I really don't doubt that. I'm sure its the case for many additives and chemicals in general... |
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I really don't doubt that. I'm sure its the case for many additives and chemicals in general... Quoted:
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I use Powerservice in the grey bottle. I started using immediately after changing my fuel filters, within 4000 miles they were plugged up, so it obviously does it's job of keeping things clean. It's also a Cetane booster, so it helps give it a more efficient burn at the right time in the cycle. My truck definitely runs smoother with it. I use half a bottle per fill up, costs about $10/bottle. PowerService is the real deal. In my 07 LBZ it evened out the balance rates on the injectors by a noticeable amount and idled smoother. Now in my 5.9 Cummins, I can't really tell a difference. Not a huge fan. Mostly because it's not that much different then many other players on the market. Their bio-kleen does work if you have an existing bacteria issue, however. Fun fact. The majority of fuel additives come out of the same tank at the same blending facility. And the majority of surfactant based fuels additives come from another blending facility. Not many companies actually make their own fuel additives. I really don't doubt that. I'm sure its the case for many additives and chemicals in general... I am one of the owners of one and the other I deal with all the time for other products. Take it for what it's worth. |
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In to learn. I just got a 6.6L duramax, so I'm new to this stuff. What model? I think the newer ones are set up for it, but the older models can benefit from the life boost due to the ulsd. My LBZ gets a couple extra mpg when I have power service in the tank vs not. (Highway, averaged over hundreds of miles) |
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I thought we were supposed to put some kind of oil in there, due to the low sulfur content of modern diesel? LC Quoted:
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The correct cold weather additive for my diesel is... gasoline. No shit.  I thought we were supposed to put some kind of oil in there, due to the low sulfur content of modern diesel? LC I put a little 2 stroke in there sometimes. I don't know if it helps, hurts, or doesn't do anything. The gasoline thing is strictly a cold weather measure, meant to lower the viscosity of the fuel. No more than 25% IIRC. 6.2l GM diesel. Alot of guys that run high amounts of waste motor oil use gasoline for the same purpose. Diesel is cheap enough that I don't really mess with waste motor oil, much. |
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Certainly bad for your egr, injectors and turbo. Quoted:
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07 lbz I run the diesel heat for a bit at the beginning of summer and winter to try and dry some of any possible water out. probably doesnt do shit. when I first got the truck, I was paranoid about lubricity, so I would dump a small jug of 2 stroke oil in with every tank. probably didnt do shit one way or the other but made the exhaust smell awesome. any leftover new clean oil from oil changes goes into the tank. same for if I find a half jug of 10/30 or something. in she goes. hasnt blown anything up yet. Certainly bad for your egr, injectors and turbo. Yup |
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I put a little 2 stroke in there sometimes. I don't know if it helps, hurts, or doesn't do anything. The gasoline thing is strictly a cold weather measure, meant to lower the viscosity of the fuel. Alot of guys that run high amounts of waste motor oil use gasoline for the same purpose. Diesel is cheap enough that I don't really mess with waste motor oil, much. Quoted:
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The correct cold weather additive for my diesel is... gasoline. No shit. I thought we were supposed to put some kind of oil in there, due to the low sulfur content of modern diesel? LC I put a little 2 stroke in there sometimes. I don't know if it helps, hurts, or doesn't do anything. The gasoline thing is strictly a cold weather measure, meant to lower the viscosity of the fuel. Alot of guys that run high amounts of waste motor oil use gasoline for the same purpose. Diesel is cheap enough that I don't really mess with waste motor oil, much. Not so much the viscosity of the fuel. But the wax content in the fuel. Not all #2 diesels are created equal. Some refineries dump the wax back into their fuel to meet the lubricity requirements for fuel. This makes the fuel completely impervious to fuel additives. It's a great summer fuel. But it gels up around 0f. Adding motor oil would make this problem worse. Also motor oil does nothing but help the bacteria problem in fuel and the water problem in fuel. |