Posted: 8/29/2016 9:55:57 AM EDT
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Hey folks,
I've been an instructor for a few years, have the LE/Mil instructor certs but, can't get into the LE/Mil "game", mostly because depts bring their own instructors etc - So, I've hit a dead end. Money's good, not complaining but, I'm to the point of where I'd like to move forward and become a full time armorer. I have a few armorer certs, going for Sig/Glock in the next few months...Did my AR/M16 through Academi...Have had instruction on a few firearms by former Crane armorers...Do about 100k rds/year at this point so, I do full maintenance on everything I have including spring kits etc. I've heard conflicting information about becoming a PD armorer and/or becoming an "official" armorer in general...Some PD's don't require you to go to the academy, others do...Same with Sherrifs..I've googled it, I see there are some "listings" - I'm also capable of getting a clearance. Is there a general consensus about what an armorer should/should not have going in? In terms of certs/knowledge etc? Anything I should have specifically before applying in terms of certs? Thanks guys. |
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Outside of a few major metro PD's, you probably won't find anyone that is "only" an armorer. A lot of places, like mine, simply send firearms instructors to armorer schools and get extra work out of their instructors for free. I'm currently certified as an armorer on the AR/M16, Glock and S&W M&P pistols, and Remington 870. That pretty much runs the gamut on what my department uses. It cost less than a grand for them to send me through those certs. S&W sends out, or used to send out, instructors to teach the armorer's courses for free with the purchase of a certain amount of weapons.
And few and far between is a department going to hire someone and move them directly to training if they've never been working the streets before. Not saying that it can't happen somewhere, I just don't know where it would happen. |
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What he said. I picked up several armorer schools on the dept dime for exactly this reason. To bring in outside help you are going to have to find a VERY large dept, go federal or National Guard civilian position etc.
It's just not a job that really exists otherwise. Most depts. will send problem guns back to the manufacturer, ongoing support is part of the purchase package. |
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A lot of misinformation out there, wanted to clear it up.
I've done them so far out of necessity so, it's not the end of the world but, would like to go somewhere eventually. I know there are a lot of jobs in the private sector for armorers but, of course there aren't any real benefits/pensions/etc. Thanks guys |
| Same here. Just FYI some departments are super picky about outsiders handling their guns due to liability. I also recommend taking another ar15 armorer course if you can squeeze it. I took the academi course as well and had a great instructor but did not play with full auto. The colt courses I took always had Mg's. |
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My best friend is a gunsmith actually - Could apprentice and do the whole 9 but, really hoping to stay away from machining.
Basic machining = GTG. Playing with a lathe and threading etc = Not gtg. I know a lot of gun stores are hiring armorers but, looking more/less at the long term. @my AR class we did have a full auto and actually talked about all 3 configurations...Was interested in Colt but, I was told that Colt was no longer honoring instructors and was now mil/le only...I actually had the same issue with Glock - Even though I'm certified, due to not having prior service, I was denied at first. Absolutely am willing to move/relocate... Unfortunately up here in NE, you enter a cycle where you can be mil/le certified but, no mil/le's send students because they all instruct from within so, you enter a system of total failure. I know it's not that way in other areas but, here it's most definitely the situation. |
| I've never seen a full time armorer in LE. It usually falls under the range master duties. The tactical teams often have guys that take care of problems as extra duty as well. Anything that can't be taken care of in house typically goes back to the original manufacture. There may well be jobs like you seek but I'd bet they're few. |
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Thanks guys.
Wasn't sure how to approach the situation as an active instructor all considering. Ironically, I've trained some of the guys that instruct at the academy but, it seems like the best route is to formally apply to a PD and go from there. Will continue looking though and I appreciate the advice! |
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LAPD had an announcement out as of a week ago, I think. Yeah, I'll pass. Let me amend the will travel portion of my previous comment: No CA...Or NJ...Or NY... Everywhere else, including Alaska/Hawaii - GTG! IDK how you guys even do it - Instructing a active shooter class with a bullet button? 
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^^^^^^^^ Yeah, I'll pass. Let me amend the will travel portion of my previous comment: No CA...Or NJ...Or NY... Everywhere else, including Alaska/Hawaii - GTG! Quoted:
^^^^^^^^ Quoted:
LAPD had an announcement out as of a week ago, I think. Yeah, I'll pass. Let me amend the will travel portion of my previous comment: No CA...Or NJ...Or NY... Everywhere else, including Alaska/Hawaii - GTG! I was born in Hawaii the only reason I don't live there is the gun laws... no CA, NY, NJ, IL, MA, MD or HI |
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The problem you will face is most every PD/SO large enough to have their own range also has a cadre of combination firearms enthusiasts/overtime whores who run the training program/armor stuff. If they have a dedicated armorer it will often be a collateral duty for one of these guys or a retired officer rehired as a civilian. If I were you I would inquire with large, full time operation police academies. Some of them, especially state run ones, have civilian instructors for various subjects. I believe WA CJTC has civilian full time firearm instructors. If you can swing one of those spots for a few years and do well at it you can network with the aforementioned group which is the real key to doing any firearm instruction work for most police agencies. |
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I was born in Hawaii the only reason I don't live there is the gun laws... no CA, NY, NJ, IL, MA, MD or HI Quoted:
I was born in Hawaii the only reason I don't live there is the gun laws... no CA, NY, NJ, IL, MA, MD or HI Ugh, didn't realize they were that bad - I like your list better. 
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The problem you will face is most every PD/SO large enough to have their own range also has a cadre of combination firearms enthusiasts/overtime whores who run the training program/armor stuff. If they have a dedicated armorer it will often be a collateral duty for one of these guys or a retired officer rehired as a civilian. If I were you I would inquire with large, full time operation police academies. Some of them, especially state run ones, have civilian instructors for various subjects. I believe WA CJTC has civilian full time firearm instructors. If you can swing one of those spots for a few years and do well at it you can network with the aforementioned group which is the real key to doing any firearm instruction work for most police agencies. Thanks man. Yeah, I've met a few armorers, always hit it off with those guys - Even shoot with them but, unfortunately, there's an end right now to the instructing road, at least in my area...PD's only pay out for Tactical 2/3...Rarely at that because it's not within the budget so, only see those classes once or twice a year... I can still make money instructing civilians and it's a decent living but, there's no security and now that I'm in my early 30's, time to start looking ahead. I'll look into the academies though - That's a great idea... I know there are a few contractors hiring - They pay well and I actually fit well with a few of them but, not quite sure I really want to stick my toes in those ponds just yet...The few that are hiring, I haven't heard good things about either. |
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When was this?... I look just about every week and haven't seen anything.. Quoted:
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FBI was hiring, but you had to have an AA in gunsmithing. When was this?... I look just about every week and haven't seen anything.. Saw this at the bulletin board during summer session at TSJC. |
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Like others have said around here, I dont know of anyone that uses a contract armorer. Nearly all the armorers I know are firearms instructor/training cadre or forensic firearms examiners. A few depts do occasionally reach out to an outside gunsmith but even that is pretty rare around here. Most depts due to liability will not let anyone that isnt a factory trained armorer (with a current cert) work on weapons. If you are looking to market your armorer training my suggestion would be to try and seek out factory schools. The non factory schools (e.g. AR15/M16 armorers course) can run the spectrum from excellent to complete trash. The factory schools are a known commodity, and that could help you in your attempt to capitalize on your training. Even after someone attends a factory school most depts have them shadow a more experienced armorer until they prove they can do the work well. There is a big difference between attending an armorers course once, and actually being competent and experienced in trouble shooting and working on dept firearms. Esp. when folks are carrying those weapons to protect human life. Hope this helps.
ETA: most problem guns that are not a straight forward fix result in the firearm going back to the mfg. Around here most armorers duty consists of doing annual service/pm and swapping night sights. |
| First become LEO, do well a few years, expand into part time training, then think about it. I am as close to a full time armorer as we have, at a 500 person agency, and I spend maybe 10% of my time typically doing actual firearms fixing/upgrading/inventory/etc... Most LE agencies replace anything that is broken- very little machining of any type. I paid a gunsmith to cut shotgun barrels. We have a lot of "trained" armorers who know enough to be dangerous...not enough who actually have seen real broken parts or difficult to diagnose issues. Do not know of any decent sized agencies where the main armorer is not a fairly experienced LEO and firearms instructor...and the smaller agencies sometimes have no one trained to be an armorer. |
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I've been thinking about TSJC - Are there any on-line classes offered that would move that entire process along or, is it all hands on etc? Quoted:
Quoted:Saw this at the bulletin board during summer session at TSJC. I've been thinking about TSJC - Are there any on-line classes offered that would move that entire process along or, is it all hands on etc? TSJC doesn't offer online classes at this time. You should attend the NRA Summer School and take the following: GUN 104 Bluing and Metal Finishes GUN 116 Basic Precision Welding GUN 120 Basic Machine Shop GUN 121 Advanced Machine Shop GUN 192 Gunsmithing Handtools This will earn you the 16 unit Gunsmith Technician Certificate. Taking these may help you enroll into the full time program. Mind you, only the Welding and the Bluing/Metal finishing goes towards the AS degree. The machine shop ones will help you when you take the regular machine shop courses (three semesters). Additionally you should take 6 elective units. I would take alternative finishes (it goes towards the AS) and if offered, stock duplication (which also goes towards the AS). I suggest those two because if you were to be selected for the full time program, at least you won't have to take those classes and that will lighten your workload. Mind you, you must have something like 72 or 73 units to earn the AS so git your basics (Engrits, math, social studies - check TSJC on line to figure out what exactly you need) out of the way before going full time. If you take the Bench Metal, it won't qualify you for the regular Bench metal class but you'll learn a lot of the skills early on (just like machine shop I & II). You'll learn to file, solder, braze, make tools (gouges, chisels, etc.) which is invaluable to the regular full time Bench Metal class. In the full time Bench Metal you have to build the Traditions Trapper (we called it the Crapper) pistol. It's not so much about building it but the skills they're trying to each you while you do. |
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First become LEO, do well a few years, expand into part time training, then think about it. I am as close to a full time armorer as we have, at a 500 person agency, and I spend maybe 10% of my time typically doing actual firearms fixing/upgrading/inventory/etc... Most LE agencies replace anything that is broken- very little machining of any type. I paid a gunsmith to cut shotgun barrels. We have a lot of "trained" armorers who know enough to be dangerous...not enough who actually have seen real broken parts or difficult to diagnose issues. Do not know of any decent sized agencies where the main armorer is not a fairly experienced LEO and firearms instructor...and the smaller agencies sometimes have no one trained to be an armorer. Thanks for the advice. You're the 4th or 5th person to hit me w/that today...It'll be ironic going to an academy full of instructors that I've instructed at one point or another but, gotta start somewhere. Thanks everyone - Really appreciate the advice and I'll keep the thread updated if anything happens! |
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Outside of a few major metro PD's, you probably won't find anyone that is "only" an armorer. A lot of places, like mine, simply send firearms instructors to armorer schools and get extra work out of their instructors for free. I'm currently certified as an armorer on the AR/M16, Glock and S&W M&P pistols, and Remington 870. That pretty much runs the gamut on what my department uses. It cost less than a grand for them to send me through those certs. S&W sends out, or used to send out, instructors to teach the armorer's courses for free with the purchase of a certain amount of weapons. And few and far between is a department going to hire someone and move them directly to training if they've never been working the streets before. Not saying that it can't happen somewhere, I just don't know where it would happen. This. I was the only civvy in the class, because of our rural area and how many times I've helped local LE departments on a whim. |
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Don't mean to be ugly but with your wants and restrictions, unicorn thread. Maybe call Colt and ask for a job? I really don't have any unreasonable restrictions...I'm also willing to go to the academy...It'll be a little ironic since I was their instructor but, it is what it is. As per the state thing...Think of it this way - My job right now is an instructor. That job requires certain tools...Moving to certain states, eliminates those tools and/or my ability to use those tools...Therefor, eliminating a job that provides well for myself...So that's logically, just not in the cards. Ultimately, like I said before, it is what it is...If I have to re-educate myself, that's fine... Wouldn't call it a unicorn thread but, to each their own. |
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I was a senior firearms instructor for the Government.
They sent me to pretty much every Armorers course out there. Sig, Glock, AR15/M16, Colt, Smith and Wesson, the list goes on. Then they never let me work on firearms, they all had to be sent back to the NFTTU for damn near anything that required a screw to be turned. I wasn't even allowed to change out hand guards on our service shotguns for Surefires. |
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I was a senior firearms instructor for the Government. They sent me to pretty much every Armorers course out there. Sig, Glock, AR15/M16, Colt, Smith and Wesson, the list goes on. Then they never let me work on firearms, they all had to be sent back to the NFTTU for damn near anything that required a screw to be turned. I wasn't even allowed to change out hand guards on our service shotguns for Surefires. The only real "armorer" work I've had to do was swap out the full auto fire control group (for standard semi) on AR-15/M-16's that we acquired from the .gov, and an extractor here or there on Glocks/M&P pistols. A lot of the time, departmental armorers are the ones that simply make the decision to send back to the factory as admin really prefers for anything outside of a simple parts swap to be done by the factory. Hell, I have a M&P that the plastic component of the striker assembly is cracked. I attached a copy of my armorer's cert from them in the email and they replied with essentially "That's cool and all, but we need you to send in the weapon for repair" and wouldn't sell the individual part to me. The only option is to buy the entire assembly from an aftermarket vendor....or was at the time about a year ago. It's been sitting in the safe since then. Good luck. |