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Posted: 5/30/2003 4:50:27 PM EDT
I, personally, don't think that inmates should be allowed cigarettes, porn, cable tv, nor any other "creature comforts". What do you think?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 4:55:01 PM EDT
prison time should include no comforts and lots of hard labor
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:05:06 PM EDT
I think they should stop the ass-raping.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:13:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 5:14:48 PM EDT by atomicferret]
Originally Posted By raven: I think they should stop the ass-raping.
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Agreed [:o], but what about the other stuff?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:14:32 PM EDT
At least give the poor fellas some porn. Watching that is the only heterosexual activity they'll be exposed to. They already get plenty of the alternative whether they like it or not
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:15:13 PM EDT
Aw who cares? Let them have their cigarettes, weights, porn, books. Whatever. As long as they are off the streets.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:16:58 PM EDT
Big rocks, big hammers, what more entertainment do they need? NONE!!!
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:20:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:22:14 PM EDT
I agree, however as a former correctional officer to do so would result in riots fights and a lot of danger for the officers that work in these prisons. so 2 things could happen. 1)this effect (riots etc.) would last a few years until it became accepted among the prison population that this is the way it is going to be, or 2)the officers will get tired of being stabbed, having sh*t thrown on them constantly (daily) breaking up fights and being injured from doing so and other such related events that most will quit and we will have(again) another extreamly dangerous situation (nearly out of control situation). it would actually take several generations for the imposed (rules) to settel in to a "normal" way of life for inmates. most people (political) and civilian would not stand for the increased danger, fighting, injuries that would happen immediatly after such rules were implimented that the system would cave in a matter of weeks. the only way it would work without the danger would be to lock down the institution (no unescorted movement) no yard time, nothing for about a year or two. I'm talking every prision everywhere in the U.S. Well, without getting too long winded about this, let's just say we created this monster of our prison system and now we have to live with it. I don't like it, I'd like to line up every child molester, murderer, and rapist and have target practice for every family member that wants to take a shot at their respective attacker/convict. but living in a free country that guarantees rights for everyone (EVERYONE) this is a luxury we will never see. so may I please offer some advice(take it or leave it) Get over it, THANK GOD you are a good citizen and not on the other side of the bars. and live YOUR LIFE THE BEST THAT YOU CAN. this is the way that it is, don't lose any sleep over it. from a former C/O
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:24:51 PM EDT
A couple of years ago I had to go work on the A/C at Raiford prison here in Florida.This is where the death row inmates are housed.I saw a inmate walking around in a area enclosed with 10' chain link and razor wire on top.I asked the guard about it and he said it was a death row inmate.The guy was shackled hand and foot walking around this small enclosed area. Guard told me these guys are locked in their cell for 23 hours and let out for 1 hour each day.The great thing was he told me there was no A/C on death row.Trust me,no A/C in Fl. in the summer is like being in Hell. Also at this time 3 or 4 guards were on trial for beating to death a death row inmate.Seems this inmate would spit,throw shit etc etc on the guards.One day he got out of control and was beaten to death by the guards (supposedly).I asked my guard about this,he said it's kinda hard to hide the size 11 bootprint bruises on the inmates chest. The guards were all found not guilty. Sometimes there are happy endings!!!
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:26:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: At least give the poor fellas some porn. Watching that is the only heterosexual activity they'll be exposed to. They already get plenty of the alternative whether they like it or not
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They should have thought of that before they did what got them there in the first place.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:13:46 PM EDT
The State needs to be particularly tough on those in prison for major offenses against society. Such as gun law violations. cynic
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 9:13:44 PM EDT
It should depend on the crime, and the criminal... Repeat offenders should be put through absolute HELL, so as to make them remember what they will be coming back to if they do it again... Minor offenders ('white collar crime', etc) should be put on some modern-day version of the old 'chain gang', and made to do public works type jobs for no pay... Road work, garbage pickup in parks, etc... More serious offenders (the type you don't want out in public) should be put to work making furnature, license plates, or other usefull jobs that can be done from inside a secured facility. Again, no pay. No cable TV, porn, internet, cigarettes, etc... But let them have books from an approved list of materials... Fitness equipment should be limited to a running track. They should be able to stay healthy, but they don't need a full health club, paid for by the rest of us...
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 9:21:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By atomicferret:
Originally Posted By raven: I think they should stop the ass-raping.
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Agreed [:o], but what about the other stuff?
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What other stuff? Salad tossing?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 9:35:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stormwalker: I agree, however as a former correctional officer to do so would result in riots fights and a lot of danger for the officers that work in these prisons. so 2 things could happen. 1)this effect (riots etc.) would last a few years until it became accepted among the prison population that this is the way it is going to be, or 2)the officers will get tired of being stabbed, having sh*t thrown on them constantly (daily) breaking up fights and being injured from doing so and other such related events that most will quit and we will have(again) another extreamly dangerous situation (nearly out of control situation). it would actually take several generations for the imposed (rules) to settel in to a "normal" way of life for inmates. most people (political) and civilian would not stand for the increased danger, fighting, injuries that would happen immediatly after such rules were implimented that the system would cave in a matter of weeks. the only way it would work without the danger would be to lock down the institution (no unescorted movement) no yard time, nothing for about a year or two. I'm talking every prision everywhere in the U.S. Well, without getting too long winded about this, let's just say we created this monster of our prison system and now we have to live with it. I don't like it, I'd like to line up every child molester, murderer, and rapist and have target practice for every family member that wants to take a shot at their respective attacker/convict. but living in a free country that guarantees rights for everyone (EVERYONE) this is a luxury we will never see. so may I please offer some advice(take it or leave it) Get over it, THANK GOD you are a good citizen and not on the other side of the bars. and live YOUR LIFE THE BEST THAT YOU CAN. this is the way that it is, don't lose any sleep over it. from a former C/O
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I don't want to get over it. With a recidivism rate of over 90% in this country, the prison system should be one of America's top priorities on fighting crime. It's safe to say that when those bastards get out, they're going straight back to what they did before. I'm outraged that these wastes of space have more ammenities than many of America's hard working. Cable...etc. I can only afford cable now b/c I've worked hard in life, became educated and got a 1/2 way decent job. The easier we make their stay, the less we detur them from coming back. Not that it would have a huge effect, but anything is better than nothing. I say put those losers to work. Physical labor for the able, and manual labor for the less able. Doesn't even have to be work w/ a purpose, just the purpose of making them work. Make them move rocks from one place to another, then back again. If the proper measures are taken while mandating this labor, you won't have to worry about riots. You also wouldn't have to worry about riots if our system didn't let masses of criminals congregate in a "controlled" environment. They're not talkin about their favorite recipes!
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 9:36:52 PM EDT
I think the "easy life in prison" is a media hype thing. If you want to really find out how great and nice it is in prison go to the closest one and take a look for yourself. Don't take some reporter's word who is trying to spin some story. I do however find it hard to accept that the people that you would want to have the hardest time (child molestors, rapist) usually have the easiest time(like min. security). I don't want to go into a rant but the whole system sux.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 9:44:11 PM EDT
In my complex, the guys I see with chiseled upper bodies are always the ones that just got out of prison. Most of those same people are still doing the same things that put them away the first time. Selling drugs more often than not. Whatever we are doing now doesn't seem to be much of a life changing event to these guys.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 9:46:29 PM EDT
I think they should be working at something like making gravel or digging large holes and filling them back up again. These assholes should be putting in 10-12 hour days doing something. Maybe that would teach a few a work ethic,maybe others would be too tired to molest eachother. There is nothing wrong with tough,honest work. Gives one time to reflect and something to do eveyday besides laying around plotting your next crime,or organizing prison gang activity and other mischief.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:09:07 PM EDT
Food for thought.If Bill C was still Prez how many of us would be looking at long time[10yrs].
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:21:21 PM EDT
1) As prison guards themselves will tell you, prisoners are a lot easier to manage and less hazardous to the staff when they have something to entertain them. 2) Most of those people will be getting out some day. OK, so lock these people in a place where they have nothing productive to do, no way to learn how to be a law-abiding, productive citizen, and no way to earn a living on the outside and guess what they will do when they get out. That's why we have a huge number of inmates going back to prison time after time. As just one example, Pelican Bay is one of the toughest prisons in the US. They lock down violent criminals in virtual solitary about 24/7 for their entire term. Then, when their time is up, they give them a hundred dollars or so -- out of which they have to buy their own civilian clothes -- and drop them off at the bus stop nearest the prison. No counseling, no treatment, no job training, no halfway house, no nothing. Just turn them loose in the community again. I know it doesn't quite satisfy your urge for revenge, but there are other countries that have tried entirely different systems. Violent prisoners are locked down really good. Most prisoners are put into what looks like an apartment with a fence around it. While they are there they are required to learn how to be a productive citizen. They must go to job training and counseling and, for a while, they are controlled 24/7. Then, as they show that they are able to behave and hold a steady job, they are gradually given more freedom until finally they are released. If they screw up, they go back to more severe restrictions for as long as it takes for them to learn how to behave. The recidivism rate is a small fraction of what ours is. And, in the long run, that makes a hell of a lot more sense than what we do.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:35:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stormwalker: I agree, however as a former correctional officer to do so would result in riots fights and a lot of danger for the officers that work in these prisons. so 2 things could happen. 1)this effect (riots etc.) would last a few years until it became accepted among the prison population that this is the way it is going to be, or 2)the officers will get tired of being stabbed,[red] having sh*t thrown on them constantly (daily)[/red] breaking up fights and being injured from doing so and other such related events that most will quit and we will have(again) another extreamly dangerous situation (nearly out of control situation). it would actually take several generations for the imposed (rules) to settel in to a "normal" way of life for inmates. from a former C/O
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How long has it been since you were a C/O? C/O's get shit and piss and other things thrown on them everyday. I agree that the violence would go up for a short amount of time. Two years, however, I think is a little overboard. TS
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:40:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 10:40:52 PM EDT by TigerStripe]
Originally Posted By GreyGhost: [green]Guard told me these guys are locked in their cell for 23 hours and let out for 1 hour each day.The great thing was he told me there was no A/C on death row.Trust me,no A/C in Fl. in the summer is like being in Hell.[/green] [red]Also at this time 3 or 4 guards were on trial for beating to death a death row inmate.Seems this inmate would spit,throw shit etc etc on the guards.One day he got out of control and was beaten to death by the guards (supposedly).I asked my guard about this,he said it's kinda hard to hide the size 11 bootprint bruises on the inmates chest. The guards were all found not guilty.[/red] Sometimes there are happy endings!!!
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[green] A judge or appeals court has just ruled that the Florida Department of Corrections has to air-condition death row.[/green] [red]Apparently Florida C/O's don't know how to correctly [i]discipline[/i] inmates. Or at least not as well as Texas C/O's.[/red] TS
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:45:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: At least give the poor fellas some porn. Watching that is the only heterosexual activity they'll be exposed to. They already get plenty of the alternative whether they like it or not
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They have heterosexual activity in prison. Inmates frequently "kill off" on female C/O's, that is masturbate in front of them/to them. Also, family members of inmates will pay female guards or inmates will tell women that they're beautiful or they love them to women who've never been told this in their life and have sex with them (female officers). TS
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 11:12:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 11:17:43 PM EDT by Az_Redneck]
I have an idea...Why not make all the prisons self sufficient? I'm sure with self-sufficiency, one could learn to do things that could help them when they get out... Like having murderers slaughter animals for food for the inmates. Use the dung from the animals and inmates for fuel and electricity.. Have some of them do some farming for vegetables. Make them grow cotten for their clothing and tan hides for shoes...And once per month have the sterile single female prisoners come over for a screw-fest with the single men (None for the sex offenders or violent criminals..let them pop eachothers can)[sex] And WHY DON'T WE HAVE ELECTRIC ANKLETS? You know, the ones that go zap when they screw up or start fighting....bzzzzzzzzt Frontal lobotomy (I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy [booze] lifers and castrate sex offenders... [nuts]
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 12:41:49 AM EDT
IMO, they should be doing hard labor and on the weekends allowed some rehabilitation, eg. cheap, counseling, not this club med shit that goes on now. Hell, half of them live better than I do and I put in my time in the Corps and my wife is STILL in the NAVY!!!! I don't understand how anyone can justify taking a serviceman's *or womans* money in taxes and giving it to these low lifes and letting them live better than they do! I mean for God's sake!! Has anyone seen the base housing available out here?!!!
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 7:02:12 AM EDT
Tigerstripe, are you a C/O? or some other LEO? I left a max prison in feb 2000. the only way we could keep THIS prison safe was we had 24/7 lock down. of 8 houseing units 1100 inmates of the worst of the worst from all over the USA, INMATES THAT OTHER PRISONS COULD NO LONGER CONTROL, like gang leaders, arian nation/brotherhood leaders and high profile serial killers, we had 1 P.C. unit(protective custody) for in house gamblers.,child molesters, and gang informants or anyone else that would be killed on sight if found in the yard. 5 units of total lock down(the hole) that were full 24/7, 1 workers unit 1 unit death row and 1 transition unit for inmates that were eligable for work but no jobs(in the prison)for them to do. work was snow clearing, food service and prison industries where they made drapes for civilian sales. we hade shit thrown on us every day fights and general mayhem, as well as all of the usual prison problems ie; drugs, butt bandits, gambling, contract hits, etc. yes we were locked down but some inmates still went to chow in the dining hall, doctor visits, visiting, some of the lesser dangerous went to chappel or to work. BIGJ you are right something does need to be done with repeat revolving door inmates, however it starts with your elected officials that allow reduced sentances time off for good behavior and other political correctness. if you really want to do some thing about this don't put the officers in danger by shaking up the monkey cage..be active in your political arena and get better laws passed through your elected officials. hard labor is an excellent idea (EXCELLENT)..PROBABLY THE BEST TOOLS WE HAVE AT DETERRANTS BOTH IN AND OUT OF THE PRISON. personally I'd like to see them work until their fingers bleed. after that they woudn't have the energy to participate in any of the other mayhem that makes prisons so dangerous. and after the word got to the outside world that prison life is TRULY HARD TIME for a long time (years and years) I think that would slow down the repeat offenders. we do baby the inmates now but that is only because our soft politicians don't want to make the hard call and impose hard labor. and being easy on the inmates is one of only a few ways we can keep the officers safe that are face to face with these animals everyday. and then as hard labor was introduced we could slowly faze out their luxuries and also stop inmate bank accounts that allow them to have a credit like account that allows them to buy things in the prison store via a catalog ordering system (that pissed me off the most) because they got cell delivery by the officers.[:(!] the system is majorly fu*ked up but the cure starts from the outside of the prison not the inside. it won't change until you change it. I did my time in hell wearing a badge in that place. I'm lucky I came out with all fingers and toes intact as well as no permanent health problems. It's dangerous in there REAL DANGEROUS. UNLESS YOU ARE THERE or were there you have no idea.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 7:14:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stormwalker: Tigerstripe, are you a C/O? or some other LEO?
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Yes. Sorry. I came off as a dick. Maybe I was being a dick last night. I know how the ADSEG units are. That's what I was talking about. I don't want officers put in more danger anymore than you. I have friends still there, CO's. TS
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 7:38:33 AM EDT
If I was the Emperor of the World, there would be only two penalties: 1. Up to six months in prison at hard labor for fairly minor offences or 2. Death Repeat offenders get #2. Throw feces at prison guard, #2. (#2 for #2, LOL) Child molesters, #2. Murder, #2. You get the idea. Why in the world should we be spending our hard earned taxes feeding and housing these animals? If they can't get along in general society, send them to the next one. There's no air conditioning there, either.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 8:44:11 AM EDT
Stormwalker, Thanks for your insights on this subject. Another thing that has bothered me...Why do we keep "death row" inmates around for as long as we do? I bet we could save quite a bit of money right there.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 9:04:59 AM EDT
I ain't no damn liberal, but let's face it. Most of the people sitting in prision now WILL get out some day. Without some vocational training or whatever, they WILL go back to their old patterns. Prisons SHOULD have some sort of job training program available for non-life incarcerees who seek it. I'm not talking about grooming Fortune 500 executives, but just letting 'em train in some marketable skill.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 9:11:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By atomicferret: Stormwalker, Thanks for your insights on this subject. Another thing that has bothered me...Why do we keep "death row" inmates around for as long as we do? I bet we could save quite a bit of money right there.
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The reason for THAT is simple. It's so prosecutors can APPEAR to be tough on crime by securing the death penalty for someone, but never have to actually carry out the punishment they worked to secure. To a prosecutor (especially to those in CT**) it's the best of both worlds. **Though CT has the death penalty (and has quite a few capital delons sitting of death row), CT has not actually executed anyone for over forty years. It you receive the death penalty in CT, it is safe to say that you will die in your cell.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 9:27:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: If I was the Emperor of the World, there would be only two penalties: 1. Up to six months in prison at hard labor for fairly minor offences or 2. Death Repeat offenders get #2. Throw feces at prison guard, #2. (#2 for #2, LOL) Child molesters, #2. Murder, #2. You get the idea. Why in the world should we be spending our hard earned taxes feeding and housing these animals? If they can't get along in general society, send them to the next one. There's no air conditioning there, either.
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Painless, you are very, very, twisted! [kill] I like that! Tougher, simple sentencing is the answer I believe. Two choices, less time to process, and incarcerate, less money spent = more money for prisons, guards, and less taxes. Then more thugs will be off the streets, and crime will go down. Less crime, less gun related crime because they are in the new prison system. The gun control freaks won't have the statistics to back their silly laws! Works for me!
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 4:54:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 45ACP_Marine: IMO, they should be doing hard labor and on the weekends allowed some rehabilitation, eg. cheap, counseling, not this club med shit that goes on now. Hell, half of them live better than I do and I put in my time in the Corps and my wife is STILL in the NAVY!!!! I don't understand how anyone can justify taking a serviceman's *or womans* money in taxes and giving it to these low lifes and letting them live better than they do! I mean for God's sake!! Has anyone seen the base housing available out here?!!!
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If they live better than you do, then the solution is simple. Stick up a liquor store and get all those benefits for yourself.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 5:06:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: If I was the Emperor of the World, there would be only two penalties: 1. Up to six months in prison at hard labor for fairly minor offences or 2. Death Repeat offenders get #2. Throw feces at prison guard, #2. (#2 for #2, LOL) Child molesters, #2. Murder, #2. You get the idea. Why in the world should we be spending our hard earned taxes feeding and housing these animals? If they can't get along in general society, send them to the next one. There's no air conditioning there, either.
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You don't have to be emperor of the world, you just have to be the Taliban in Iraq about a year ago. [:P]
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 12:22:59 PM EDT
Well needless to say this is a difficult subject with no easy answers or should I say no answers that will be easily carried out in our current political world. keep fighting the good fight and have hope that one day common sence prevails to our political leaders and save us from ourselve.. until then I'll keep training [50][pistol][shotgun][sniper2]
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 1:00:51 PM EDT
Back in the USSR(before corruption ran rampant), the prison system was great. Everyone knew that should they go to prison, they were in for getting the shit beat out of them, getting raped like goats, and most importaintly- nothing by cement walls, a wooden bed, and horrible food. Oh, and frigid cold, many of the soviet prisons were located on the Siberian Peninsula. Above all, prisons back there doubled as factories. People didnt commit much crime back then. Nowadays, getting sent to prison is BETTER than their life would be otherwise. IMO, The US should take example from foreign countries where being sent to prison for anything worse than a misdemeanor feels like a death-sentence. Making them work hard to pay for their crimes, and their punishment isnt a bad idea anyways. It would lower taxes(so i dont have to pay for shit-for-brains' punishment), and (as with some prisons even in the USA that employ prisoner labor) could turn a profit for the goverment.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 1:14:24 PM EDT
Old_Painelss, I like the way you think :) Any violent crime should have a mandatory sentence of death. No lethal injection, but a firing squad (of which the victim and his/her family can choose to participate in). Any non-violent felony should be punishable by a sentence in an alaskan labor camp(look above). Any misdemeanor should be punishable by being sent to a regular labor camp- ANY bad behavior will mean being transferred to above stated labor camp. The work at the labor camps will be divided. Felons will get dangerous level labor, such as mining (soviet prisoners got to work in uranium mines), and making goverment items (such as tools). Guards in these felon camps will all be armed, and may shoot to kill anyone 'acting up'. Misdemeanor offenders may do somewhat less dangerous work, such as textiles and wood-work, also, prisoners on good behavior lists may get the option to clean up garbage, cook own food, and do the guards laundry. In this case, guards will also be armed, but now may only shoot to kill any prisoner turning violent. In my ideal prison system, the public will know exactly how bad it is in these systems just to they know what to look forward to should they want to go against the law.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:00:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Andreuha: Back in the USSR(before corruption ran rampant), the prison system was great.
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Omigod, the USSR was the model of corruption!
People didnt commit much crime back then.
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So who was in the prisons?
Making them work hard to pay for their crimes, and their punishment isnt a bad idea anyways. It would lower taxes(so i dont have to pay for shit-for-brains' punishment), and (as with some prisons even in the USA that employ prisoner labor) could turn a profit for the goverment.
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See China today for a sterling example of your desires. Great role models you got there... Communist Russia and Communist China. What's next- praise for the Nazis because they made the trains run on time?
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:28:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By blackmanta: I ain't no damn liberal, but let's face it. Most of the people sitting in prision now WILL get out some day. Without some vocational training or whatever, they WILL go back to their old patterns. Prisons SHOULD have some sort of job training program available for non-life incarcerees who seek it. I'm not talking about grooming Fortune 500 executives, but just letting 'em train in some marketable skill.
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This is key...Did you know that with a record you cannot get a student loan, car insurance, apartment, job, and many other crazy things that one needs to be a productive member of society. The problem is there are a great number of people who could be rehabilitated if given half a chance. What if someone made a mistake at say the young age of 18 gets 20 years and has no way/chance to "make it". Where do you think he is gonna end up at?? I don't believe in punishing someone who has done the time and now is even with the house. Thats why he is out. He has paid his debt.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:30:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2003 8:35:18 PM EDT by Andreuha]
Originally Posted By DScott: Great role models you got there... Communist Russia and Communist China. What's next- praise for the Nazis because they made the trains run on time?
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I dont think you get my point. I dont think you've lived in these places either (in their hay-day anyways, now its a total shit-hole). Back in the day, the streets were actually very safe, and people commited very little crime because they knew what would happen to em if they did something wrongfull. What i'm saying, is that if you make punishment very harsh, you will deter people from becoming criminals. But if you just keep handing out little slaps on the wrist, people wont mind getting more. The vocational training seems like a good idea- but you need a deterrent to keep prisoners from even thinking of taking a chance to go back. As for people doing their time, once youve done your time, you should go back to society with full restored privledges (minus firearm ownership in violent cases). Although people shouldnt get that should they decide they want to break the law again.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:31:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: I don't believe in punishing someone who has done the time and now is even with the house. Thats why he is out. He has paid his debt.
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I tend to agree with this. There will be some who will always offend, but we should have some avenues open for those who want to make an effort to stay straight.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:30:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: This is key...Did you know that with a record you cannot get a student loan, [u]car insurance, apartment, job,[/u] and many other crazy things that one needs to be a productive member of society. I don't believe in punishing someone who has done the time and now is even with the house. Thats why he is out. He has paid his debt.
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Car insurance, wrong. Apartment, wrong. Job, wrong. I know a guy who's been in prison twice since I've been unemployed. He got a job about two weeks after getting out each time. He had a better vehicle than I do. He has a decent place to live. But I agree, when their time is served, it should be over with. TS
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:37:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Andreuha: and making goverment items (such as tools). Guards in these felon camps will all be armed, and may shoot to kill anyone 'acting up'. Misdemeanor offenders may do somewhat less dangerous work, such as textiles and wood-work.
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We have that in the federal system, it's called UniCorp. They make shitty desks, assorted furniture, some LEO gear and BDU's. Federal workers and agents, good and bad, have to use their shit when a non-criminal could be earning a paycheck. TS
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:35:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TigerStripe:
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: This is key...Did you know that with a record you cannot get a student loan, [u]car insurance, apartment, job,[/u] and many other crazy things that one needs to be a productive member of society. I don't believe in punishing someone who has done the time and now is even with the house. Thats why he is out. He has paid his debt.
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Car insurance, wrong. Apartment, wrong. Job, wrong. I know a guy who's been in prison twice since I've been unemployed. He got a job about two weeks after getting out each time. He had a better vehicle than I do. He has a decent place to live. But I agree, when their time is served, it should be over with. TS
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I bet if you call any insurance company and tell them your a felon and want car insurance you will get either no quote or a rate that no one would pay(usually the former). You can get into the "state pool" thing which is like $300-$400/mo(not realistic) I just(last week)had a conversation with several insurance companies regarding this very issue. I also doubt the person in question clamed to be a ex-con when he rented his apartment. Why does it ask on all State of Texas apartment applications??? As for the job there are people who will hire an ex-con, myself being one of them depending on the situation. However it is not the norm for any major company to hire ex-convicts. Your friend should consider himself lucky. There are not that many people who are able to "make it" after getting out of the system. The family support system is usually the only thing that determines if the person is gonna make it or not.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:48:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: I don't believe in punishing someone who has done the time and now is even with the house. That's why he is out. He has paid his debt.
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Okay Tony, lets look at it this way. Suppose Fred goofs off all through school, misses a lot of school, and just barely squeaks by. Doesn't go to college or trade school because his grades won't let him in. The rest of his life he can't be an engineer, a lawyer, an accountant, etc, etc, etc. One day he says, "It's not fair. Sure, I made a mistake in the past, but it's not fair to hold it against me all of my life. All of that stuff is in the past. Why can't I get a fair break? Life sucks! It's not [b]fair[/b]." Too bad. Some decisions are with you for life. If you make some bad ones, you don't get to "un-do" them. You just have to live with them. Committing felonies is one of those big mistakes. If you don't want life to be hard, don't commit any felonies. They can't be "undone". Sorry, but that's the hard truth.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:59:05 AM EDT
Its not about "fair". It's about the fact that the person has served their time. Upon release they should be allowed the chance to resume life. I am by no means a whinny liberal, however if you leave someone no choice to survive in the real world why is everyone so shocked when they reoffend????
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:09:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: Its not about "fair". It's about the fact that the person has served their time. Upon release they should be allowed the chance to resume life. I am by no means a whinny liberal, however if you leave someone no choice to survive in the real world why is everyone so shocked when they reoffend????
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"if you leave someone no choice to survive"? Sorry, that doesn't fly either. There are millions of honest guys that work low level, low-paying jobs and they never commit crimes. They just do the best they can. Ex-felons that "reoffend" as you put it, do so because they are sorry, good-for-nothing criminals that [u]choose[/u] to commit felonies. No one [u]makes[/u] them do it. It is a choice. And millions decide not to commit crimes to survive. Sorry, but the idea that society "forces" someone to choose a life of crime is a liberal wacko idea that is totally without merit.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:16:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GreyGhost: A couple of years ago I had to go work on the A/C at Raiford prison here in Florida.This is where the death row inmates are housed.I saw a inmate walking around in a area enclosed with 10' chain link and razor wire on top.I asked the guard about it and he said it was a death row inmate.The guy was shackled hand and foot walking around this small enclosed area. Guard told me these guys are locked in their cell for 23 hours and let out for 1 hour each day.The great thing was he told me there was no A/C on death row.Trust me,no A/C in Fl. in the summer is like being in Hell. Also at this time 3 or 4 guards were on trial for beating to death a death row inmate.Seems this inmate would spit,throw shit etc etc on the guards.One day he got out of control and was beaten to death by the guards (supposedly).I asked my guard about this,he said it's kinda hard to hide the size 11 bootprint bruises on the inmates chest. The guards were all found not guilty. Sometimes there are happy endings!!!
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happy ending? b.s. If those 4 guards have a clear concious to this day about ganging up on a prisoner and kicking him to death they're sick and perverse people. As a prison guard, it's not their job to execute prisoners and if it was, foot prints on the chest don't define humane. They should be in jail for murder
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:20:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: Its not about "fair". It's about the fact that the person has served their time. Upon release they should be allowed the chance to resume life. I am by no means a whinny liberal, however if you leave someone no choice to survive in the real world why is everyone so shocked when they reoffend????
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"if you leave someone no choice to survive"? Sorry, that doesn't fly either. There are millions of honest guys that work low level, low-paying jobs and they never commit crimes. They just do the best they can. Ex-felons that "reoffend" as you put it, do so because they are sorry, good-for-nothing criminals that [u]choose[/u] to commit felonies. No one [u]makes[/u] them do it. It is a choice. And millions decide not to commit crimes to survive. Sorry, but the idea that society "forces" someone to choose a life of crime is a liberal wacko idea that is totally without merit.
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There are other countries with different policies (like intensively retraining their convicts to be able to make it in the outside world). They have a recidivism rate that is a small fraction of ours. Whatever you may think of the people who reoffend, it is pretty damn stupid for us to continue policies that insure that the vast majority of them will reoffend. Your attitude is common, and perhaps even understandable, but it is the equivalent of shooting ourselves in the foot.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:23:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stormwalker: I agree, however as a former correctional officer to do so would result in riots fights and a lot of danger for the officers that work in these prisons. so 2 things could happen. 1)this effect (riots etc.) would last a few years until it became accepted among the prison population that this is the way it is going to be, or 2)the officers will get tired of being stabbed, having sh*t thrown on them constantly (daily) breaking up fights and being injured from doing so and other such related events that most will quit and we will have(again) another extreamly dangerous situation (nearly out of control situation). it would actually take several generations for the imposed (rules) to settel in to a "normal" way of life for inmates. most people (political) and civilian would not stand for the increased danger, fighting, injuries that would happen immediatly after such rules were implimented that the system would cave in a matter of weeks. the only way it would work without the danger would be to lock down the institution (no unescorted movement) no yard time, nothing for about a year or two. I'm talking every prision everywhere in the U.S. Well, without getting too long winded about this, let's just say we created this monster of our prison system and now we have to live with it. I don't like it, I'd like to line up every child molester, murderer, and rapist and have target practice for every family member that wants to take a shot at their respective attacker/convict. but living in a free country that guarantees rights for everyone (EVERYONE) this is a luxury we will never see. so may I please offer some advice(take it or leave it) Get over it, THANK GOD you are a good citizen and not on the other side of the bars. and live YOUR LIFE THE BEST THAT YOU CAN. this is the way that it is, don't lose any sleep over it. from a former C/O
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"Fighting, day in the box. Throw $hit, day in the box."
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:24:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By atomicferret: Stormwalker, Thanks for your insights on this subject. Another thing that has bothered me...Why do we keep "death row" inmates around for as long as we do? I bet we could save quite a bit of money right there.
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The irony lays in one man killing a man illegaly and then being killed legally. Have you any idea how many death row inmates have been found innocent after 12+ years on death row because of DNA testing?
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