[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Civil War Question (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 7/12/2016 12:47:28 AM EDT
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war.
So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? |
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Both were bad but for different reasons.
The South had poor logistics and couldn't even deliver food to its own soldiers. At one point the guards at Andersonville were on half rations and the Yankee prisoners on 1/4 ration. The one thing I can fault Henry Wirz (Commandant at Andersonville) for is his refusal to permit the ladies of the area from bringing food in for the prisoners. Then again, package control is essential for the safety and security of a prison or jail. As for the Union, they starved their prisoners but this was in retaliation for what the South (inadvertantly) did to the Yankee prisoners. The sad thing is that Americans abused their fellow Americans. |
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. |
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Both were bad but for different reasons. The South had poor logistics and couldn't even deliver food to its own soldiers. At one point the guards at Andersonville were on half rations and the Yankee prisoners on 1/4 ration. The one thing I can fault Henry Wirz (Commandant at Andersonville) for is his refusal to permit the ladies of the area from bringing food in for the prisoners. Then again, package control is essential for the safety and security of a prison or jail. As for the Union, they starved their prisoners but this was in retaliation for what the South (inadvertantly) did to the Yankee prisoners. The sad thing is that Americans abused their fellow Americans. The fact that POW camps even existed was in no small part due to the fact that captured Southerners so quickly violated their parole. Like many Gentleman's Agreements, it worked great until one side decided that expediency ruled over established norms of land warfare. Then, the logistics of maintaining POW camps on the scale of the Civil War outstripped the frankly lousy organization of both sides. |
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The fact that POW camps even existed was in no small part due to the fact that captured Southerners so quickly violated their parole. Like many Gentleman's Agreements, it worked great until one side decided that expediency ruled over established norms of land warfare. Then, the logistics of maintaining POW camps on the scale of the Civil War outstripped the frankly lousy organization of both sides. Quoted:
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Both were bad but for different reasons. The South had poor logistics and couldn't even deliver food to its own soldiers. At one point the guards at Andersonville were on half rations and the Yankee prisoners on 1/4 ration. The one thing I can fault Henry Wirz (Commandant at Andersonville) for is his refusal to permit the ladies of the area from bringing food in for the prisoners. Then again, package control is essential for the safety and security of a prison or jail. As for the Union, they starved their prisoners but this was in retaliation for what the South (inadvertantly) did to the Yankee prisoners. The sad thing is that Americans abused their fellow Americans. The fact that POW camps even existed was in no small part due to the fact that captured Southerners so quickly violated their parole. Like many Gentleman's Agreements, it worked great until one side decided that expediency ruled over established norms of land warfare. Then, the logistics of maintaining POW camps on the scale of the Civil War outstripped the frankly lousy organization of both sides. The South did cheat and a Col.Patton was outraged when he learned he was not properly exchanged. He felt his honor had been compromised by those who told him he was cleared to return to active duty. Exchanges later stopped when Grant figured that the sooner the South was exhausted, the sooner it would surrender. Why fight the same man twice or thrice? The only exchanges that continued were for the very sick. |
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You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. Quoted:
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. lol The two aren't even close. BLM are hood rats acting like ghetto trash, nothing more. |
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lol The two aren't even close. BLM are hood rats acting like ghetto trash, nothing more. Quoted:
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. lol The two aren't even close. BLM are hood rats acting like ghetto trash, nothing more. You mean, 12% of the population willing to burn down the Continent and the Constitution to preserve a rent seeking economic system based nearly entirely on a disgusting view of race? Because I see far more similarity than difference. |
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Quoted: You mean, 12% of the population willing to burn down the Continent and the Constitution to preserve a rent seeking economic system based nearly entirely on a disgusting view of race? Because I see far more similarity than difference. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. lol The two aren't even close. BLM are hood rats acting like ghetto trash, nothing more. You mean, 12% of the population willing to burn down the Continent and the Constitution to preserve a rent seeking economic system based nearly entirely on a disgusting view of race? Because I see far more similarity than difference. In.  |
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One Yankee spy escaped by getting good letter paper and paying a black to deliver it to the Commandant of Libby Prison. The note was an order to release the man. It worked.
Not wanting to share his third floor cell with a newly arrived prisoner. lets call him fish, to a prison in DC, a Confederate convinced the fish that he overheard the commandant telling the guards that fish was to be executed in the morning. He told his unwanted cellmate the fish that he was once a circus acrobat and suggested to the fish that he could escape by prying up a board from the floor, sticking it out the window and after walking out on the board, use it as a diving board and jump off the three story building and past the inner fence. The helpful roommate helped the fish pry up a floorboard and push it out of the window. The fish crawled out and standing up, began bouncing on the board until he launched himself into space. Lo! he landed safety behind the fence but almost impaled himself on a patrolling guard's bayonet. The guard was too stunned to response as the fish scrambled for a building in the corner of the outer courtyard. If the fish could just get on the building's roof, the fish could climb over the outer wall and be free. More responsive guards caught the fish. Helluva way to get rid of a roomie you don't want. |
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Yep, that was quick. |
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In.
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. lol The two aren't even close. BLM are hood rats acting like ghetto trash, nothing more. You mean, 12% of the population willing to burn down the Continent and the Constitution to preserve a rent seeking economic system based nearly entirely on a disgusting view of race? Because I see far more similarity than difference. In.
lol It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. |
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The North, for the fact that they intentionally starved their prisoners. It was an inexcusable war crime.  You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow that was codified in Southern law? The fact that the Southern government called for the death of detained personnel should have made their POWS forfeit. |
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You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow? Quoted:
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The North, for the fact that they intentionally starved their prisoners. It was an inexcusable war crime. You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow? Fort Pillow is not relevant to the discussion and question posed in the OP. Try to stay on topic. |
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Fort Pillow is not relevant to the discussion and question posed in the OP. Try to stay on topic. Quoted:
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The North, for the fact that they intentionally starved their prisoners. It was an inexcusable war crime. You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow? Fort Pillow is not relevant to the discussion and question posed in the OP. Try to stay on topic. The OP already surrendered. |
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It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. |
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Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. Quoted:
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It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. That's quite an oversimplified view of the topic. I recommend spending some time researching the history of the issue---the Federal Government was hardly blameless. I suppose I should ask if you feel this same sickness whenever you see a Gadsden Flag or other Revolutionary War flag, but I've yet to find a Pro-Colonist Anti-Confederate individual who recognized the irony of their position. |
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Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. Quoted:
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It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. WTF the south did not resort to war. They elected to self govern themselves as is spelled out in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution., the north invaded the south for legally succeeding. |
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WTF the south did not resort to war. They elected to self govern themselves, the north invaded the south for legally succeeding. Quoted:
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It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. WTF the south did not resort to war. They elected to self govern themselves, the north invaded the south for legally succeeding. Uh, they illegally tried to take over the state of Missouri, for starters, against the popular will. |
| My great-great grandfather served in the 10th? TN Volunteers for the CSA. He was captured, interred in Indiana I think, paroled, rejoined his unit and then was discharged because of dysentery. We found his pay records about 8 years ago in a family Bible, and that is what they show. |
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Uh, they illegally tried to take over the state of Missouri, for starters, against the popular will. Quoted:
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It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. WTF the south did not resort to war. They elected to self govern themselves, the north invaded the south for legally succeeding. Uh, they illegally tried to take over the state of Missouri, for starters, against the popular will. And invaded neutral Kentucky. In all fairness, Maryland probably would have seceded but Lincoln had troops occupy Baltimore, stopping any vote for secession. ETA: Y'all should join a Civil War Round Table. They are independently operated discussion groups that meet regularly and cover different and various topics. I learned a lot from my membership in three different groups. |
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Both were bad but for different reasons. The South had poor logistics and couldn't even deliver food to its own soldiers. At one point the guards at Andersonville were on half rations and the Yankee prisoners on 1/4 ration. The one thing I can fault Henry Wirz (Commandant at Andersonville) for is his refusal to permit the ladies of the area from bringing food in for the prisoners. Then again, package control is essential for the safety and security of a prison or jail. As for the Union, they starved their prisoners but this was in retaliation for what the South (inadvertantly) did to the Yankee prisoners. The sad thing is that Americans abused their fellow Americans. This is the correct assessment of the situation. Well stated, sir. |
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Both were bad but for different reasons. The South had poor logistics and couldn't even deliver food to its own soldiers. At one point the guards at Andersonville were on half rations and the Yankee prisoners on 1/4 ration. The one thing I can fault Henry Wirz (Commandant at Andersonville) for is his refusal to permit the ladies of the area from bringing food in for the prisoners. Then again, package control is essential for the safety and security of a prison or jail. As for the Union, they starved their prisoners but this was in retaliation for what the South (inadvertantly) did to the Yankee prisoners. The sad thing is that Americans abused their fellow Americans. You're pretty much correct. The two worst of the prisons were, of course Andersonville, but also Camp Douglas in Chitcago. We know more about Andersonville because it's basically still there. Camp Douglas was created in, literally, a swamp & was destroyed at the end of the war. Being penned up in a swamp in northern ILL Summer's is bad enough, but if you survive that you get to look forward to a windy, snowy Chitcago winter that you probably wouldn't. On my mothers, mothers side of the family tree there were two brothers named Hopkins that served with the Union army that both found themselves at the same prison in Richmond. Neither brother knew the other was there. After release they both set out walking for home in ILL, still neither knowing the whereabouts of the other. They finally came back together once home... |
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WTF the south did not resort to war. They elected to self govern themselves as is spelled out in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution., the north invaded the south for legally succeeding. Quoted:
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It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. WTF the south did not resort to war. They elected to self govern themselves as is spelled out in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution., the north invaded the south for legally succeeding. *seceding Of course, your spelling errors aren't the only clue that you were educated in the south. |
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You mean, 12% of the population willing to burn down the Continent and the Constitution to preserve a rent seeking economic system based nearly entirely on a disgusting view of race? Because I see far more similarity than difference. Quoted:
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. lol The two aren't even close. BLM are hood rats acting like ghetto trash, nothing more. You mean, 12% of the population willing to burn down the Continent and the Constitution to preserve a rent seeking economic system based nearly entirely on a disgusting view of race? Because I see far more similarity than difference. 
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You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. Quoted:
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. I guess it was sedition that led to the establishment of the United States of America, too. Words are funny things - one side's sedition is the other side's liberation. |
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Both were pretty bad, but IMO the South was physically worse due to their general lack of resources.
I think Andersonville and Libby were considered the worst, but Elmira and Camp Douglas were not much better. The North got away with it, but at least the South had an excuse. |
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Or what happened to the women, children and old folks of Roswell, Ga..............
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You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow? Quoted:
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The North, for the fact that they intentionally starved their prisoners. It was an inexcusable war crime. You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow? |
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*seceding Of course, your spelling errors aren't the only clue that you were educated in the south. Quoted:
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It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. WTF the south did not resort to war. They elected to self govern themselves as is spelled out in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution., the north invaded the south for legally succeeding. *seceding Of course, your spelling errors aren't the only clue that you were educated in the south. A better response would have been to point out the south's failure to succeed. |
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You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. Quoted:
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. Fail. reserved rights are reserved rights, and the States reserved the right to leave the Union. Also, nothing in the Constitution prevents a State from leaving. Claiming secession is sedition is equivalent to claiming open-carry is "brandishing" or " causing alarm". |
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You mean, 12% of the population willing to burn down the Continent and the Constitution to preserve a rent seeking economic system based nearly entirely on a disgusting view of race? Because I see far more similarity than difference. Quoted:
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I'm going to visit the Andersonville prison in the near future and it made me wonder who had the worst prisons during the war. So who had the worst? The American Patriots or the North? You mean the Black Lives Matter people of their day? Because, sedition is sedition. lol The two aren't even close. BLM are hood rats acting like ghetto trash, nothing more. You mean, 12% of the population willing to burn down the Continent and the Constitution to preserve a rent seeking economic system based nearly entirely on a disgusting view of race? Because I see far more similarity than difference. They weren't burning anything. They left. The Union burned to prevent them leaving - something the Union had no right to do. It would be like Columbia Record House sending goons to smash your kneecaps because you wanted to leave the record of the Month Club. |
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You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow? Quoted:
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The North, for the fact that they intentionally starved their prisoners. It was an inexcusable war crime. You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow? Yes. Or like Sherman executing POWS in retaliation for guerilla attacks, or Sherman forcing POWS to travel ahead of his columns down mined roads, or Sherman's troops looting, or Sherman's troops using women as sex slaves, because the "white ones deserve it" and the black ones "owe it to us", or Sherman burning Atlanta. or Sherman deliberately casing civilians to starve to death, or the numerous atrocities deliberately visited upon Confederate prisoners and even Chicago civilians unlucky enough to end up in Camp Douglas. |
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You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow that was codified in Southern law? The fact that the Southern government called for the death of detained personnel should have made their POWS forfeit. Quoted:
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The North, for the fact that they intentionally starved their prisoners. It was an inexcusable war crime. You mean a war crime like Fort Pillow that was codified in Southern law? The fact that the Southern government called for the death of detained personnel should have made their POWS forfeit. Don't like the law in the South? Don't come to the South. Problem solved. |
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Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. Quoted:
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It's not worth arguing/talking/debating with him over. I won't be changing his views anytime soon, and he won't be changing mine. Of course you won't. Once the landed gentry realized as the US expanded westward they would lose their pro-slavery majority in the house they resorted to war. They decided to murder their countrymen to preserve their profits. They got off too easy. Every time I see the Confederate flag it makes me sick. You should be ashamed of yourself. Another victim of a wretched public school education, I see .... |
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Well, at least the Union was preserved... and strengthened... and strengthened... and...
It's nice to have a strong authoritarian Federal Government that can bully the states into doing what it says to do. Transsexual bathrooms for all! Free healthcare! Hoorah! I feel like humming the Battle Hymn of the Republic. |