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Posted: 5/21/2003 10:31:54 AM EDT
Do any of these several dozen Democrats running for President have a legit shot at dethroning George W.? I think Dick Dephardt and Howard Dean are the only two with a chance. *Although most of you are Republicans, please note that Howard Dean is very pro-gun rights. Keep that in mind.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:35:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: *Although most of you are Republicans, please note that Howard Dean is very pro-gun rights. Keep that in mind.
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But he is still a Dem. Do you think he has a legit shot at derailing his whole party's views?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:36:41 AM EDT
Its not just guns, but the entire socialist/NAZI ideology of the extreme left in general. Higer taxes, repression of individualism, re-distrabution of earned income, cash hog social welfare programs and gun grabbing (also a repression of individualism) musnt forget the track record of gross violations of Constitutional law. A good number of the people here care about all these issues, not just guns. The 2nd is great, but we need the others too to be free.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:37:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: Do any of these several dozen Democrats running for President have a legit shot at dethroning George W.?
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No.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:46:39 AM EDT
No, I don't think so. But Bush is going to have to go to work on the economy if he wants to avoid an attack on that front. IMO, it may end up being his achilles heel. I think the race for the nomination is Dean's to lose. Gephart has all the same problems that Gore had: mean spirited, lacks personality, etc. The others don't have much of a chance.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:46:52 AM EDT
Lieberman maybe with a good pick popularity wise for position two. All depends on domestic issues and what happens between now and then. Gephardt is more dense than Gore- real slow on the uptake.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:52:44 AM EDT
I dunno. I'm waiting to see who the dems pick for their candidate. Bush the 1st lost to Clinton, a relative unknown from a small state, after a popular war victory with the economy in rough shape. The similarities to today are interesting. Kerry? Dean? Kerry is the only one of the dems whose military service record is halfway decent, which may count for something. Of cours,e he and the rest of the dems have many many negatives in my eyes. On the other hand, the patriot act tramples the bill of Rights in a big way, so repubs can no longer claim to be protective of Constitutional rights, can they?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:58:17 AM EDT
Seeing as John F. Kerry, who is considered one of the prime leaders (and who would win the "Snob of the Year" award hands-down) has plummeted 22 percentage points in polls IN MASSACHUSETTS against GWB, I'd have to say that as of right now, they have as much chance of winning as Osama Bin Laden. Still, a year and a half is a LONG time in politics...
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:16:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: *Although most of you are Republicans, please note that Howard Dean is very pro-gun rights. Keep that in mind.
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Yeah he is pro-gun until he gets in the white house. We do not need any demorats in the white house period.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:24:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cougar8045: Gephart has all the same problems that Gore had: mean spirited, lacks personality, etc. The others don't have much of a chance.
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I STRONGLY disagree on the claim that Gephardt is meanspirited. He's the only politician that seems to give a damn about this Healthcare crisis. What gives you the impression that he's mean spirited???
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:26:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 11:32:10 AM EDT by _twist]
Originally Posted By Belfry_Express: Its not just guns, but the entire socialist/NAZI ideology of the extreme left in general. Higer taxes, repression of individualism, re-distrabution of earned income
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imho, both parties have a problem understanding how antiquated the idea of socialism is. redistribution of wealth - try redistribution of labor. anyone notice that most large companies are simultaneously recording record profits and record layoffs. the mechanization of the workplace is the single biggest factor in the economy today. the corporate dream is a ceo turning a crank to produce millions of goods and services. but who will buy those products? certainly not the unemployed masses. i'm not just talking about robots instead of machinists here - white collar workers are being replaced by automated email and reusable code just as fast as lineworkers are being given pink slips. hardworking is the single most important trait for a person to have in my eyes, but what happens when no one will give you a chance to work regardless of your education? we need to rework the priorities of our society, the old economy isn't working, unions aren't working, my friends and neighbors aren't working... as soon as a canidate acknowledges this behemoth of a problem, i'll vote for them; i don't give a f*ck if they're dem or gop. but that isn't going to happen because successful campaigns cost big dollars and the only people that can support them are the businesses that are lining their pockets while this huge bomb of crushing humanity is being constructed underneath them. welcome to our dystopian future. who else is loading their 12gauge in anticipation? [edit: bad spellah]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:29:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By nwatson99:
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: *Although most of you are Republicans, please note that Howard Dean is very pro-gun rights. Keep that in mind.
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Yeah he is pro-gun until he gets in the white house. We do not need any demorats in the white house period.
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Clinton left a bad taste in your mouth, aye? (No pun intended) [:D]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:38:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 11:46:12 AM EDT by liberty86]
Gephardt has big labor, so he'll prolly be the nominee. A lot can happen between now and then. Economy, war, disease the usual shit a president really can't control much, but gets blamed for. I do believe if the AWB is shot down, and the economy is tanked he'll win. If the reauthorization does pass, and the economy is good, he MAY win.(But they'll lose in the house big time!! Those are the races the "activists" [:D] work on.) If the election was held today, I doubt if anyone in the WORLD could beat him.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:46:54 AM EDT
Emoto, The only reason Bush 1 lost was because of Ross Perot, he took 19 % of the vote that would have went to Bush.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:06:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier:
Originally Posted By Cougar8045: Gephart has all the same problems that Gore had: mean spirited, lacks personality, etc. The others don't have much of a chance.
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I STRONGLY disagree on the claim that Gephardt is meanspirited. He's the only politician that seems to give a damn about this Healthcare crisis. What gives you the impression that he's mean spirited???
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IMO Gephardt is never "FOR" anything. He is always just "AGAINST" what the other side is doing. He plays up to peoples fears. What healthcare crisis do you speak of?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:16:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cougar8045:
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier:
Originally Posted By Cougar8045: Gephart has all the same problems that Gore had: mean spirited, lacks personality, etc. The others don't have much of a chance.
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I STRONGLY disagree on the claim that Gephardt is meanspirited. He's the only politician that seems to give a damn about this Healthcare crisis. What gives you the impression that he's mean spirited???
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What healthcare crisis do you speak of?
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Well, I pay $800.00 a month for health insurance for my wife, my son, and myself...
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:20:43 PM EDT
The crisis I speak of is that millions of Americans are without health insurance. Gephardt made the bold proposal (calling it "Matt's Plan", named after his son) a few weeks back that he would ensure that every single American have healthcare coverage. I don't know if the plan got through or not but at least he's trying to solve this problem
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:27:32 PM EDT
To answer the basic question: At this time, none of the Dems have about one chance in 1 quadrillion. It just isn't within the realm of possibilities...now. That is not to say that the Dems have NO chance. Anything is possible in politics. Dubya might falter...but that is highly unlikely considering the brains and political savvy he and his team have. The problem the Dems have now is that they are, despite the illogical and completely mistaken rantings by the Left over at DU, COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH with MOST Americans. They really do believe that the folks in flyover country share their beliefs in socialism and a communal hatred of everything Bush. They still believe that the last two elections were stolen. They still believe that Paul Wellstone and other Dem pols were murdered. They still harbor a deep, heart-gripping hope that Bush will be somehow brought up on charges and be impeached and then convicted. The Left is wrong. The majority of sentient Americans are quite pleased with Bush and his administraion. The majority of us don't want big government and all that goes with it. The majority of us don't believe that class-warfare crapola. The majority of us don't believe the Dems now. The Dems are FOR a damn thing...they only are AGAINST anything that Bush proposes. Their recent track record is going to hurt them badly next year. People are not going to forget the judge issue, when bombarded nightly by Republican campaign ads. Since the Dems only bitch...and have yet to present a comprehensive plan for anything so far, they are in a bad position to win back anything at the next election. In fact, they might very well lose several more House seats, and possibly 2-4 Senate seats.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:35:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: The crisis I speak of is that millions of Americans are without health insurance. Gephardt made the bold proposal (calling it "Matt's Plan", named after his son) a few weeks back that he would ensure that every single American have healthcare coverage. I don't know if the plan got through or not but at least he's trying to solve this problem
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Well, I don't have any info about his proposed plan but I can tell you that I am 100% against it. Aside from being another Democratic "redistribute the wealth" program, there are precious few things that the government does well. One of the very last places I want the government is medling with my health(care).
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:37:17 PM EDT
Naw, while I agree DU is way off mainstream America (they realize it and take pride in it too) I do think about half the country hates Bush and will vote for anyone the Democrats select to oppose him. That's about all the opposing candidate (whoever he will be) has to offer voters. Gephardt doesn't stand a chance and will never be president. It's going to either be Lieberman or Kerry and between those two, I bet they'll pick Kerry with his war record in attempt to look like they can be trusted with national security. This election wont be won on BS issues like prescription drug subsidies or education, or even the economy.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:39:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 12:40:40 PM EDT by LWilde]
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: The crisis I speak of is that millions of Americans are without health insurance. Gephardt made the bold proposal (calling it "Matt's Plan", named after his son) a few weeks back that he would ensure that every single American have healthcare coverage. I don't know if the plan got through or not but at least he's trying to solve this problem
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[b]Welcome [:K] ![/b] The problem with Mr. Gephardt's plan is that it is HillaryCare redux. At first blush, any proposal like this...FREE ANYTHING gets people's attention and sounds good. What we tend to forget is that the devil is in the details. The problem with Mr. Gephardt's health care and his other socialist plans like the universal pension plan, is that SOMEONE must pay for them. They are NOT free. The key is, who shall pay. Only in a society that really embraces wealth redistribution can make these types of things work. Take a look at those countries that have universal health care. Look how much the citizens pay in taxes. Then take a look at the quality of the health care that system provides the citizens. In most cases, they pay a lot and don't get much in return...but EVERYBODY HAS EQUAL ACCESS, which is EXACTLY what the socialists want. Finally, I have yet to see an accurate estimate on the number of Americans who really don't have healthcare. Further, is that really healthcare...or access? I have yet to hear about someone being denied access at most hospitals. BS alert on high.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:52:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By buffalo-soldier: The crisis I speak of is that millions of Americans are without health insurance. Gephardt made the bold proposal (calling it "Matt's Plan", named after his son) a few weeks back that he would ensure that every single American have healthcare coverage. I don't know if the plan got through or not but at least he's trying to solve this problem
View Quote
[b]Welcome [:K] ![/b] The problem with Mr. Gephardt's plan is that it is HillaryCare redux. At first blush, any proposal like this...FREE ANYTHING gets people's attention and sounds good. What we tend to forget is that the devil is in the details. The problem with Mr. Gephardt's health care and his other socialist plans like the universal pension plan, is that SOMEONE must pay for them. They are NOT free. The key is, who shall pay. Only in a society that really embraces wealth redistribution can make these types of things work. Take a look at those countries that have universal health care. Look how much the citizens pay in taxes. Then take a look at the quality of the health care that system provides the citizens. In most cases, they pay a lot and don't get much in return...but EVERYBODY HAS EQUAL ACCESS, which is EXACTLY what the socialists want. Finally, I have yet to see an accurate estimate on the number of Americans who really don't have healthcare. Further, is that really healthcare...or access? I have yet to hear about someone being denied access at most hospitals. BS alert on high.
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There are currently 41.2 million uninsured in the United States, and 55 percent of them are full-time, year-round workers or their dependents. In 2001, the availability of job-related health insurance fell to 68 percent.
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