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Posted: 5/16/2003 7:22:02 PM EDT
First off, I have been around this forum for a while but have never posted before so Hello from the FNG. Secondly, I saw Jeff Cooper on American Shooter one time and he stated that when you take a small caliber bullet and speed it up " nothing much happens". I assume he was talking about the 9mm but doesn't the same thing aply to the 357 mag. Just wanted to know what you guys thought about Coopers opinion of guns like the 357. and for that matter the 10mm and the 40.cal.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:27:37 PM EDT
Registered November of 02 and this is your first post?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:29:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 7:40:48 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
Oh ya. You should take this over to AR15, Ammunition forum. It'll start a real shit storm over there.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:30:32 PM EDT
Has it really been that long. Well as you know there are many voices here and I haven't found much to contribute that wasn't covered already and I'm shy.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:36:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:40:49 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies I now feel validated in asking the question. But I do have a question about the gun that guy used in that movie.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:42:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:43:22 PM EDT
Ah yes the Bren Ten and Steyr Scout
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:44:52 PM EDT
Having attended a 250 pistol class with Mr. Cooper conducting all of the lectures I can state, Mr. Cooper still thinks it's 1976.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:50:19 PM EDT
I'ld have to say that you just plain can't generalize and anybody that tries to make a blanket statement like that is an idiot. (Is that a generalization?)
take a small caliber bullet and speed it up " nothing much happens".
View Quote
In long range shooting it helps to eliminate range estimating errors by flattening trajectory. It also increases penitration and helps carry more energy further down range. In hand guns It's a whole different story, and I could see that depending on what your needs and situation are, slow and fat might fit but sometimes small and speedy might be better.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:15:31 PM EDT
Well, for what it's worth in on of Col. Coopers books he mentioned that he was using a 1911 pistol in out of country assignment in 38 super and developed an even hotter 9mm round as in that country you were not allowed to use military calibers (no 45 ACP or 9mm x 19) - so he is just favoring the known 45 over his experience w/ 9mm luger and other smaller calibers. And 1976 wasn't that bad a year as no gun bans on assault weapon, high capacity mags, machine guns -etc.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:25:56 AM EDT
I'm very partial to Jeff Cooper. My dog is named after him. Most people that don't like him get upset that he puts down their choice in firearms, which is pretty pathetic. They wind up missing alot of good info simply because he said 9mm or .223 suck. I personally carry 9mm Glocks, and I have my reasons. I can still learn alot from him besides a simple caliber choice. Many only know 2 things about Jeff Cooper, that he likes the 1911, and the Steyr Scout. Most never bother to learn more about his handgun preference, and most have never understood the purpose/role of the scout.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:04:29 AM EDT
Massad Ayoob has done extensive studies on calibers and tissue damage/penetration, etc. Something like 20 years of research. If memory serves, he does like the .40 and .45...but the .357 is quite an effective round. One thing he stated was that in self defense you should shoot at the gut because the impact forces the body to double-over involuntarily. That way you can at least have one follow-up shot. However, at Thunder Ranch we were taught to shoot 2 or 3 in the chest FIRST, then to the Head, back to the chest...and THEN to the stomach.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:11:52 AM EDT
This is very mych a "yes and no" answer.. If one takes two pistol bullets, of identical construction, (diameter, mass,sectional density, etc) and changes only mildly the velocity, the terminal ballistics will usually not change appreciably. This is NOT applicable between rifle, and handgun bullets, where one sees greatly differing bullet construction, velocities, and sectional densities in a given caliber. (9X19, versus 9X57 for an example.) Meplat-
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