[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Paid Maternity Leave Debate anyone? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/9/2016 9:44:14 AM EDT
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I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but I've come across growing support for paid maternity/paternity leave like the below article, and I just don't get how it could possibly be a good idea.
http://www.today.com/health/problem-parental-leave-u-s-t38701 If you're too busy to read, the article is advocating for paid maternity/paternity leave in the US. Basically you have a kid, then make around 75% of your salary for at least 18-26 weeks. Government funded, possibly like social security. My issues with this: -If it's govt funded, that means your taxes support it. Why should you give your money to the govt only to be given directly back to you? The government acting as the middleman (for yourself) only draws money out to pay for the newly created govt positions. Why not just leave people with their money? -It's a bit unreasonable to expect every US employer to grant every one of their employees 6months off every time they have a kid. Companies need people to run them, without people there won't be any salaries to begin with. If someone decides they want 3 kids that are close together in age (not unreasonable), they'd be gone for close to 1.5 years over 3 years. -What about all those that can't take time off? farmers? Small business owners? They'd have to pay into the system but never get their dues. -Many of the countries ranked higher than the US are not places that should be emulated. Cuba, Venezuela, Kazakhstan, Vietnam, etc. Most of the others are significantly smaller countries which changes the logistics around quite a bit. -Why further incentivize having kids? It leaves the whole program open to much abuse. -If you don't want kids, why should you have to pay for others who do? I guess the same could be said about public schools, but still. Any other arguments for or against? Anything I'm not getting? |
| It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. |
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Quoted:
I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but I've come across growing support for paid maternity/paternity leave like the below article, and I just don't get how it could possibly be a good idea. http://www.today.com/health/problem-parental-leave-u-s-t38701 If you're too busy to read, the article is advocating for paid maternity/paternity leave in the US. Basically you have a kid, then make around 75% of your salary for at least 18-26 weeks. Government funded, possibly like social security. My issues with this: -If it's govt funded, that means your taxes support it. Why should you give your money to the govt only to be given directly back to you? The government acting as the middleman (for yourself) only draws money out to pay for the newly created govt positions. Why not just leave people with their money? -It's a bit unreasonable to expect every US employer to grant every one of their employees 6months off every time they have a kid. Companies need people to run them, without people there won't be any salaries to begin with. If someone decides they want 3 kids that are close together in age (not unreasonable), they'd be gone for close to 1.5 years over 3 years. -What about all those that can't take time off? farmers? Small business owners? They'd have to pay into the system but never get their dues. -Many of the countries ranked higher than the US are not places that should be emulated. Cuba, Venezuela, Kazakhstan, Vietnam, etc. Most of the others are significantly smaller countries which changes the logistics around quite a bit. -Why further incentivize having kids? It leaves the whole program open to much abuse. -If you don't want kids, why should you have to pay for others who do? I guess the same could be said about public schools, but still. Any other arguments for or against? Anything I'm not getting? You want employers to stop hiring women? Because that's how you get employers to stop hiring women. Unintended consequences... |
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Quoted: It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. |
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. Fair point, and I agree with most of what you said. I just don't see how it would financially work. It seems like reverse social security where now the old pay for the young. Except now we're giving multi-year passes so that those that would be working, creating wealth and developing industry, are now missing from the work force in long chunks of time. I don't know if that's how we make America stronger. |
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. NO |
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NO Quoted:
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. NO I love that we would complain about something like this but we as a country are ok with giving Chaniqua/Juanita/Cherish the equivalent of 50-60k a year to sit at home with their 4 kids by 4 different fathers. But God fucking forbid we cut working parents a break because if they aren't working who is going to pay for the aforementioned. Add in the fact that 1 out of 2 STEM graduates cannot find a job but we import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do the same jobs on the white collar side and then on the blue collar side allow millions of illegals to work under the table, avoid taxes, no insurance and licensing requirements and the cut them fucking checks for earned income tax credits in the thousands of dollars for their children, nieces, nephews. It's a fucking wonder middle class families have not burned this shit down. |
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Quoted: I love that we would complain about something like this but we as a country are ok with giving Chaniqua/Juanita/Cherish the equivalent of 50-60k a year to sit at home with their 4 kids by 4 different fathers. But God fucking forbid we cut working parents a break because if they aren't working who is going to pay for the aforementioned. Add in the fact that 1 out of 2 STEM graduates cannot find a job but we import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do the same jobs on the white collar side and then on the blue collar side allow millions of illegals to work under the table, avoid taxes, no insurance and licensing requirements and the cut them fucking checks for earned income tax credits in the thousands of dollars for their children, nieces, nephews. It's a fucking wonder middle class families have not burned this shit down. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. NO I love that we would complain about something like this but we as a country are ok with giving Chaniqua/Juanita/Cherish the equivalent of 50-60k a year to sit at home with their 4 kids by 4 different fathers. But God fucking forbid we cut working parents a break because if they aren't working who is going to pay for the aforementioned. Add in the fact that 1 out of 2 STEM graduates cannot find a job but we import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do the same jobs on the white collar side and then on the blue collar side allow millions of illegals to work under the table, avoid taxes, no insurance and licensing requirements and the cut them fucking checks for earned income tax credits in the thousands of dollars for their children, nieces, nephews. It's a fucking wonder middle class families have not burned this shit down. |
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People should get paid not to have kids and taxes increased for those who do instead of providing government handouts and tax deductions.
Far too many single mothers/unwanted children as it is. Furthermore far to many people are breeding and their children are being raised on the tax payers dime. Instead of people breeding after marriage when they have a stable family life/financial situation single moms in their mid 20s are the new norm. |
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I love that we would complain about something like this but we as a country are ok with giving Chaniqua/Juanita/Cherish the equivalent of 50-60k a year to sit at home with their 4 kids by 4 different fathers. But God fucking forbid we cut working parents a break because if they aren't working who is going to pay for the aforementioned. Add in the fact that 1 out of 2 STEM graduates cannot find a job but we import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do the same jobs on the white collar side and then on the blue collar side allow millions of illegals to work under the table, avoid taxes, no insurance and licensing requirements and the cut them fucking checks for earned income tax credits in the thousands of dollars for their children, nieces, nephews. It's a fucking wonder middle class families have not burned this shit down. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. NO I love that we would complain about something like this but we as a country are ok with giving Chaniqua/Juanita/Cherish the equivalent of 50-60k a year to sit at home with their 4 kids by 4 different fathers. But God fucking forbid we cut working parents a break because if they aren't working who is going to pay for the aforementioned. Add in the fact that 1 out of 2 STEM graduates cannot find a job but we import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do the same jobs on the white collar side and then on the blue collar side allow millions of illegals to work under the table, avoid taxes, no insurance and licensing requirements and the cut them fucking checks for earned income tax credits in the thousands of dollars for their children, nieces, nephews. It's a fucking wonder middle class families have not burned this shit down. I think some of your points are exaggerated but even if they were all 100%gtg, I don't think giving everyone else more government handouts is a good way to help the country. If the middle class isn't working, then who will fund any of it? It seems like the answer to success is less redistribution, not more. |
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My company gives 80 hours.
I find that extremely generous, because as far as I'm concerned they don't owe me anything. It is, of course, simply one component of a benefits package designed to attract the best quality talent for the lowest possible price. Same with healthcare. But people fixate on these small perks - which, I'll remind you, only exist because we're overtaxing monetary wages so it's far cheaper to get it as a benefit than to pay out of pocket - and extrapolate them into necessities. Fix the fucking taxes, and you won't need a two-income household to raise kids. |
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My company gives 80 hours. I find that extremely generous, because as far as I'm concerned they don't owe me anything. It is, of course, simply one component of a benefits package designed to attract the best quality talent for the lowest possible price. Same with healthcare. But people fixate on these small perks - which, I'll remind you, only exist because we're overtaxing monetary wages so it's far cheaper to get it as a benefit than to pay out of pocket - and extrapolate them into necessities. Fix the fucking taxes, and you won't need a two-income household to raise kids. My thoughts exactly |
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............. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. Great. Start a little fund with your "own money." Find some like minded folks and make it a yuge fund and distribute to what you consider worthy individuals to promote old fashion family values. Heck, I may even throw in a few bucks. But when you take other people's money against their will, for whatever pretense, with the force of government or a gun it becomes robbery or tyranny. Neither is good........ |
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As the father of two kids I support 6-8 weeks maternity leave. Whether it is paid or unpaid should be up to the employer not the govt.
If we start letting women sit home for 18-26 weeks most wont go back to work. 6-8 weeks gives them time to heal after birth, get their shit straight with the baby and go to work with out having lost too much time. |
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ANYTHING government funded? NO. This. I'm all for paid maternity/paternity leave, but it should be an employee benefit offered by a company, neither government funded nor required by law. I do think if maternity leave is offered, paternity leave should be as well, though. Ideally, it would be a voluntary insurance option. |
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Want to get paid? Go to work. Want to have a kid? Don't go to work, don't get paid. This is a hard concept for many people. I have a small business. We have two owner/employees, me and my partner. We have no other employees and I don't want any, and shit like this is the main reason. I can't even have a discussion with a potential employee about these issues and how we're going to handle it financially, because I'd violate various employment "discrimination" laws if I did. So, I'm not hiring anyone. Go government. 
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I'd rather keep my money. Quoted:
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. This. |
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There's a woman, other end of my building, that's been on maternity leave since December and due back at the end of May.  We get 4 months paid (paternity too). If anyone is considering mocking the system by stating they will adopt 3 kids 4 months apart as a single man and take off for the year, management frowns upon such antics. 
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We get 4 months paid (paternity too). If anyone is considering mocking the system by stating they will adopt 3 kids 4 months apart as a single man and take off for the year, management frowns upon such antics. Quoted:
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There's a woman, other end of my building, that's been on maternity leave since December and due back at the end of May. We get 4 months paid (paternity too). If anyone is considering mocking the system by stating they will adopt 3 kids 4 months apart as a single man and take off for the year, management frowns upon such antics. Lol, while a year off sounds like fun, suddenly having 3 kids as a single man does not sound pleasant 
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Nothing funded by tax payers. I worked at a company that provided maternity leave for the moms. Not sure if it was six months or something a bit less. There was a female director that had three kids in three years. She was hardly ever there and when she quit having kids they promoted her to VP.
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I got into it with my little sister last night about this after texting her the Bernie poster cut in half.
It basically degenerated to her saying she was a socialist and thought the govt should either pay or force companies to offer this. I threw some logic her way about govt intervention causing disparities in prices and she said "I can't talk about this I'm getting too emotional"
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I think some of your points are exaggerated but even if they were all 100%gtg, I don't think giving everyone else more government handouts is a good way to help the country. If the middle class isn't working, then who will fund any of it? It seems like the answer to success is less redistribution, not more. Quoted:
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. NO I love that we would complain about something like this but we as a country are ok with giving Chaniqua/Juanita/Cherish the equivalent of 50-60k a year to sit at home with their 4 kids by 4 different fathers. But God fucking forbid we cut working parents a break because if they aren't working who is going to pay for the aforementioned. Add in the fact that 1 out of 2 STEM graduates cannot find a job but we import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do the same jobs on the white collar side and then on the blue collar side allow millions of illegals to work under the table, avoid taxes, no insurance and licensing requirements and the cut them fucking checks for earned income tax credits in the thousands of dollars for their children, nieces, nephews. It's a fucking wonder middle class families have not burned this shit down. I think some of your points are exaggerated but even if they were all 100%gtg, I don't think giving everyone else more government handouts is a good way to help the country. If the middle class isn't working, then who will fund any of it? It seems like the answer to success is less redistribution, not more. Which part was exaggerated? 
Oh and the point I guess lost in my rant was that if wages were not being driven down and then what is actually earned being taxed at confiscatory rates, then we would not need paid maternity/paternity leave. Note: I have completely ignored and should have spent a minute discussing why medical care in this country cost 4-5x as much as equivalent healthcare in other developed countries, essentially another tax. |
| Almost all social programs have good feels about them and benefit somebody. Usually somebody else. And all social programs involve taking my money and redistributing to somebody else. I work and earn money for my living. If I can't afford it, I don't do it or get it. Including my kids. And stuff. Buy your own stuff. Pay for your own kids. If you can't afford them, don't have them. |
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I love that we would complain about something like this but we as a country are ok with giving Chaniqua/Juanita/Cherish the equivalent of 50-60k a year to sit at home with their 4 kids by 4 different fathers. But God fucking forbid we cut working parents a break because if they aren't working who is going to pay for the aforementioned. Add in the fact that 1 out of 2 STEM graduates cannot find a job but we import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do the same jobs on the white collar side and then on the blue collar side allow millions of illegals to work under the table, avoid taxes, no insurance and licensing requirements and the cut them fucking checks for earned income tax credits in the thousands of dollars for their children, nieces, nephews. It's a fucking wonder middle class families have not burned this shit down. Quoted:
Quoted:
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. NO I love that we would complain about something like this but we as a country are ok with giving Chaniqua/Juanita/Cherish the equivalent of 50-60k a year to sit at home with their 4 kids by 4 different fathers. But God fucking forbid we cut working parents a break because if they aren't working who is going to pay for the aforementioned. Add in the fact that 1 out of 2 STEM graduates cannot find a job but we import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do the same jobs on the white collar side and then on the blue collar side allow millions of illegals to work under the table, avoid taxes, no insurance and licensing requirements and the cut them fucking checks for earned income tax credits in the thousands of dollars for their children, nieces, nephews. It's a fucking wonder middle class families have not burned this shit down. Who says I'm okay with giving Juanita 50K? I am not!! |
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. There is nothing wrong with what you've stated. The problem is that women have been sold the notion that you "can have it all". This specific proposed program is like putting a dab of caulk on a leaky dam. Families have to make a choice, either they are going to do what it takes and sacrifice for their family or they are going to sacrifice their family. There is no easy answer and there is no easy way out of the choice. It's not popular and it's not easy to hear, but people have been conditioned to think that it's acceptable to out source the upbringing of their children. It entails changing lifestyle to make it on one income. It means sacrificing having all the neatest new toys for the long term welfare and wellbeing of your family. It means not doing what it takes to keep up with the Jones. It means one of the parents has to stay home and assume a selfless role to raise the children while the other makes a living. |
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. They do? Where are all of those kids in the inner cities, who grow up with only Mothers, with no Father in sight? |
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Want to get paid? Go to work. Want to have a kid? Don't go to work, don't get paid. At my last company we gave maternity and paternity leave to our employees. Of course, it was our choice, it was a benefit we used for recruitment\retention and it never became a hassle for the company. We also never put a time limit on it. It was always an honor system kind of thing. Oddly, the vast majority of fathers always came back long before we expected them. |
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Anything the government involves itself in will be a clusterfuck. It will stifle business growth, especially small businesses. Unintended consequences abound. If you think our problems are bad now, just wait until you see the government's solutions. If the feds were in charge of deserts, there'd be a shortage of sand. True story, the feds couldn't turn a profit at a seized Nevada whorehouse. |
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How in the fuck did our parents and their parents ever do it? My parents drove used cars, lived in a small house, stayed out of debt, and mom stayed him with all 3 of us kids. I only have one kiddo, but my wife won't work until we desperately need the money or my daughter is out of school. I'd rather live on the cheap than have the extra income. |
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Quoted: You realize that declining birth rates in middle class to upper class Americans is one of the reasons why many want more illegal immigration. Quoted: -Why further incentivize having kids? It leaves the whole program open to much abuse. You realize that declining birth rates in middle class to upper class Americans is one of the reasons why many want more illegal immigration. And, since Welfare isn't going anywhere any time soon, this leaves the only people reproducing in good numbers the liberal/entitlement crowd. |
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My company gives 80 hours. I find that extremely generous, because as far as I'm concerned they don't owe me anything. It is, of course, simply one component of a benefits package designed to attract the best quality talent for the lowest possible price. Same with healthcare. But people fixate on these small perks - which, I'll remind you, only exist because we're overtaxing monetary wages so it's far cheaper to get it as a benefit than to pay out of pocket - and extrapolate them into necessities. Fix the fucking taxes, and you won't need a two-income household to raise kids. Just to add emphasis... |
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It is no secret that kids who spend more time with their moms are smarter, healthier, and more well adjusted. Also, a mom who spends more time with her baby initially is very likely to want to be a full time mom instead of leaving her kid in daycare. Anything that encourages people to return to a traditional family is better for the American people and better for the whole country. I personally would be willing to kick in my own money because a little of my own comfort is not as important to me as the quality of life for the whole country, and I want america to be great again. It's an investment, in my own opinion. +1 |