Posted: 11/20/2015 10:23:18 PM EDT
|
"Anyone who clings to the historically untrue- and thoroughly immoral- doctrine that violence never settles anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forgot this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms." Robert Heinlein
I came upon this while reading this evening. It seems particularly apt right now. I wish it were otherwise. |
|
"You have learned how it was said: 'Eye for eye and tooth for tooth'. But I say to you offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also." M 5.38-9
Had to go find this. This right here animates a lot of what we are seeing played out on the media. |
|
Ghandi never would have convinced daesh of the error of their ways. The only reason Ghandi and M L King were successful in their tactic of non-violence was they were opposing a civilized democracy. The Nazis, the communists, daesh, Al-Queda, all would have ground them into the dirt and not have given a thought about it. |
|
Quoted:
"You have learned how it was said: 'Eye for eye and tooth for tooth'. But I say to you offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also." M 5.38-9 Had to go find this. This right here animates a lot of what we are seeing played out on the media. This has nothing to do with societies defending themselves. This admonishes people to not escalate arguments needlessly. You can avoid pointless fights if you don't worry about saving face. Not sure what you are referring to being played out in the media. Is this in general, or a specific topic? |
|
Quoted:
This has nothing to do with societies defending themselves. This admonishes people to not escalate arguments needlessly. You can avoid pointless fights if you don't worry about saving face. Not sure what you are referring to being played out in the media. Is this in general, or a specific topic? Quoted:
Quoted:
"You have learned how it was said: 'Eye for eye and tooth for tooth'. But I say to you offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also." M 5.38-9 Had to go find this. This right here animates a lot of what we are seeing played out on the media. This has nothing to do with societies defending themselves. This admonishes people to not escalate arguments needlessly. You can avoid pointless fights if you don't worry about saving face. Not sure what you are referring to being played out in the media. Is this in general, or a specific topic? I can see you are right there. I was just referring to the upwelling of pacifism that the Paris attack seems to have given rise to. Not around here, mind you. |
|
Quoted:
This has nothing to do with societies defending themselves. This admonishes people to not escalate arguments needlessly. Quoted:
Quoted:
"You have learned how it was said: 'Eye for eye and tooth for tooth'. But I say to you offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also." M 5.38-9 This has nothing to do with societies defending themselves. This admonishes people to not escalate arguments needlessly. ??? I don't see anything remotely to that effect in the quoted passage. If that's actually what was meant, why isn't that what was said? I find it "interesting" that Christians will say what's written in the Bible is true, then turn around and insist that it doesn't mean what it says. |
|
Quoted:
??? I don't see anything remotely to that effect in the quoted passage. If that's actually what was meant, why isn't that what was said? I find it "interesting" that Christians will say what's written in the Bible is true, then turn around and insist that it doesn't mean what it says. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"You have learned how it was said: 'Eye for eye and tooth for tooth'. But I say to you offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also." M 5.38-9 This has nothing to do with societies defending themselves. This admonishes people to not escalate arguments needlessly. ??? I don't see anything remotely to that effect in the quoted passage. If that's actually what was meant, why isn't that what was said? I find it "interesting" that Christians will say what's written in the Bible is true, then turn around and insist that it doesn't mean what it says. You're probably right. It is all about governments going to war. |
|
Quoted:
You're probably right. It is all about governments going to war. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"You have learned how it was said: 'Eye for eye and tooth for tooth'. But I say to you offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also." M 5.38-9 This has nothing to do with societies defending themselves. This admonishes people to not escalate arguments needlessly. ??? I don't see anything remotely to that effect in the quoted passage. If that's actually what was meant, why isn't that what was said? I find it "interesting" that Christians will say what's written in the Bible is true, then turn around and insist that it doesn't mean what it says. You're probably right. It is all about governments going to war. I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth. |
|
Quoted:
I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"You have learned how it was said: 'Eye for eye and tooth for tooth'. But I say to you offer the wicked man no resistance. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also." M 5.38-9 This has nothing to do with societies defending themselves. This admonishes people to not escalate arguments needlessly. ??? I don't see anything remotely to that effect in the quoted passage. If that's actually what was meant, why isn't that what was said? I find it "interesting" that Christians will say what's written in the Bible is true, then turn around and insist that it doesn't mean what it says. You're probably right. It is all about governments going to war. I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth. From the guy that left out half my quote to change the meaning of what I said. Glad you picked up on my point. Let me break it down for you. The original quote by Heinlen was discussing the merits of violence as a tool of the state, specifically when applied against another state. The bible passage is about petty altercations and how to diffuse them. Take the moral high-ground rather than turn it into something ugly. They guy who originally posted the bible passage readily agreed. I'm not sure if the point was truly lost on you, or if you're searching for an opportunity to start an argument. |
|
Quoted:
Eeehhhh.......reasonable people don't have to resort to violence. Most avoid it like the plague. However, in regards to government, you are correct. Quoted:
Quoted:
Violence settles EVERYTHING. The .gov only exists on threat of violence. Eeehhhh.......reasonable people don't have to resort to violence. Most avoid it like the plague. However, in regards to government, you are correct. Even reasonable people are forced to violence when reason fails, lest they perish. Who's morality is the better to survive otherwise? |