[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Apache NOT destroyed! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/7/2003 7:40:51 AM EDT
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Remember the Apache that crashed early in the war that we had supposedly destroyed so that they couldn't play with it? Well I saw some of the video they had with Saddam doing his walk-about in Baghdad and somewhere in there I saw a clip of a flat bed truck in Baghdad carying the Apache! WTF??? We can't let them (read Russians/Chinese/etc.) get there hands on stuff like this -- we have to destroy it as soon as we know the crew is safe! Also, saw some video with Iraqis dancy on top of an M1A1 that had been destroyed/disabled during one of the excursions into Baghdad --same deal -- destroy the fucker before they can play with it!!! Later, Brian Stirling |
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Lord have mercy on us all! If this is not some serious 'Monday morning' quarterbacking, then I don't know what is! Next time, maybe they should let you handle the mission, eh? Once again, those who never played the game at all, or played it by remote control in a video arcade, are presuming to tell the US Military how to do its job! As if! What a bunch of whining, bitching, moaning nancy boyz our country has produced! Y'all mothers should all try and get a refund on their eggs, 'cause y'all didn't hatch properly! [:D] Thank the Lord, we have men with steel ballz in the Iraqi Theatre and elsewhere! Eric The(Flabbergasted)Hun[>]:)] |
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Lord have mercy on us all! If this is not some serious 'Monday morning' quarterbacking, then I don't know what is! Next time, maybe they should let you handle the mission, eh? Once again, those who never played the game at all, or played it by remote control in a video arcade, are presuming to tell the US Military how to do its job! As if! What a bunch of whining, bitching, moaning nancy boyz our country has produced! Y'all mothers should all try and get a refund on their eggs, 'cause y'all didn't hatch properly! Thank the Lord, we have men with steel ballz in the Iraqi Theatre and elsewhere! Eric The(Flabbergasted)Hun name calling doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a conflict between what we were told and what we see on the idiot box |
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Post from 1_153_370_371_407 - name calling doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a conflict between what we were told and what we see on the idiot box Conflict? I like your use of the word 'seems', for there is no conflict in my mind! But then I don't pay any attention to those naysayers and doomsday predictions that others have made on the idiot box, or on this Board. I trust the US Military a whole lot more than I trust CNN, or any other source, in these matters. I think they have done an admirable job in giving us all the news, both bad and good! Don't you? [:D] BTW, 'name calling' is just one of the little extras that I like to throw in. In Louisiana, we call it 'lagniappe.' Just, 'a little something extra.' Eric The(BigMamou)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: What a bunch of whining, bitching, moaning nancy boyz our country has produced! Y'all mothers should all try and get a refund on their eggs, 'cause y'all didn't hatch properly! Actually, yours was the first post that sounded like it was coming from a whiney, bitchy individual. [:D] |
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I used 'seems' because I too remain unconvinced that there is some conspiracy to give an example of our technology to the commies (they'd just buy it from Israel if they wanted it [:)]). (maybe if klinton were running the show I might think otherwise) assuming for discussion that there actually is footage of an apache on a flatbed truck in Baghdad, I'd guess that either it's not the same one shown in the 'goat farmer with a Mauser' clips, or whoever said it was destroyed just made a mistake. I trust the US Military a whole lot more than I trust CNN, or any other source, in these matters. I think they have done an admirable job in giving us all the news, both bad and good! agreed |
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Gawrsh fellas...you mean the gubmint might not tell us the truth about something?!? I jes dunno what ta think now! I wouldn't be surprised either way (either the military talking head had the story wrong, or the helo is being driven around iraq, what's the difference? Hell under the current watch we flew a friggin SPY PLANE right to a damned Chinese airport, so how much worse can it get! Lol |
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[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=10161[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=10162[/img] Well El Hunbo, I do trust our military more than CNN or Al-Jizzm, etc.... BUT, IIRC, The day the Apache was shown on iraqi tv in the field, reporters were asking why it was not destroyed. The next morning, centcom announced it had been destroyed. My problem is...I SEE it in the field, then I SEE it rolling through baghdad on a flatbed. The time line given by centcom doesn't seem to work out. I think they need to "clarify" what and when things happened. It's not wrong to question our fearless leaders is it ?? |
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To those that think sadam is going to sell the apache to the chi-coms, my question is HOW? Fly it out in a cargo plane. I dont think so. Drive it out through Iran. Im sure the iranians would love to keep it for themselves. Drive it out through syria. Don't we own pretty much every thing west of bagdad. Im sure sadam would love to sell it but there is no way that helo is getting out of bagdad. Wether it is in little burned peices or in the same condition as when it landed, we will get it back. Ben, The_Emu |
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Quoted: Hell under the current watch we flew a friggin SPY PLANE right to a damned Chinese airport, so how much worse can it get! Lol Just a few points about that little incident 1. We were NOT in a declared war or conflict with the Chinese at the time 2. The pilot landed his aircraft AFTER the [s]dink[/s] CHICOM pilot collided with it severly disabling it. 3. Under the international laws at the time landing at the closest non hostile landingstrip was the right thing to do. 4. That plane was SOVERIEGN US TERRITORY. Now bout this whole flatbed Apache thang...time will tell. JMHO |
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Quoted: To those that think sadam is going to sell the apache to the chi-coms, my question is HOW? Fly it out in a cargo plane. I dont think so. Drive it out through Iran. Im sure the iranians would love to keep it for themselves. Drive it out through syria. Don't we own pretty much every thing west of bagdad. Im sure sadam would love to sell it but there is no way that helo is getting out of bagdad. Wether it is in little burned peices or in the same condition as when it landed, we will get it back. Ben, The_Emu How about the Russian "Diplomats" that were leaving Baghdad yesterday.....ohh, wait, they didn't make it. "Iracies" ambushed them..right?????? Makes ya think. |
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Quoted: To those that think sadam is going to sell the apache to the chi-coms, my question is HOW? Fly it out in a cargo plane. I dont think so. Drive it out through Iran. Im sure the iranians would love to keep it for themselves. Drive it out through syria. Don't we own pretty much every thing west of bagdad. Im sure sadam would love to sell it but there is no way that helo is getting out of bagdad. Wether it is in little burned peices or in the same condition as when it landed, we will get it back. Ben, The_Emu When this was taking place, we were not close to baghdad and did not have control of the highways to and from syria and other areas that could be used to transport cargo. Remember, we had proof that syria was trucking in help to baghdad. Whats to stop them from trucking stuff right back out ?? They wouldn't need the whole bird either, just remove the sensetive electronics and systems, crate them up and ship them out. |
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Post from Spectre - Well El Hunbo, I do trust our military more than CNN or Al-Jizzm, etc.... BUT, IIRC, The day the Apache was shown on iraqi tv in the field, reporters were asking why it was not destroyed. The next morning, centcom announced it had been destroyed. Did CentCom say [u]where[/u] it had been destroyed? I don't seem to recall that at all, if they did. My problem is...I SEE it in the field, then I SEE it rolling through baghdad on a flatbed. The time line given by centcom doesn't seem to work out. No, you 'SAW' it in the field, then you 'SAW' it rolling through some city on a flatbed. I don't know what the time frame was for each of those matters. Do you? I think they need to "clarify" what and when things happened. Stop the WAR! Repeat, STOP THE WAR! [b]SPECTRE[/b] NEEDS [u]CLARIFICATION[/u]! It's not wrong to question our fearless leaders is it ?? Is that you asking for 'Baghdad Bob', or is that you asking as [b]SPECTRE[/b]? There's an old adage at law, 'The greater includes the lesser.' When they start unpacking the newly-discovered chemical weapons, and all the other shit that our forces are bound to find eventually, which side will you be on? It's a helluva lot easier to lie about a chopper, than it is to lie about chemical weapons. So, if you are gonna believe the US Military about what it finds and where, regarding chemical, biologocal, etc., weapons, why would you not believe a story about one particular chopper? I guess you and Peter Arnett can both be screaming to the tops of your lungs about it being nothing more than a 'baby milk factory'! The rest of us will be sitting around clucking our tongues. Eric The(OrUlulatingIfWeWereIraqiWomenz)Hun[>]:)] |
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Even if they did have an Apache, BIG WHOOP! there too far gone anyway, its not like they are going to win the war or conquer the rest of the world with a single broken Apache. It does seem like an interesting story, but, we will have to see how it plays out before we all go around speculating and crying SHTF's like a bunch of sissies |
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Well, Eric the(my way or the highway) Hun.....Why do we need the war stopped to get "clarification" ?? I'm just a curious sort I guess, but when they tell me it was blown up and then it shows up rolling down the road, I get a little curious. It may well be that it was destroyed after it was moved, but that was not made clear and to ask for some "clarification" is not a bad thing ...is it ???. If they come out and say as much and give us some cool gun camera footage, then I'll believe them. They sure like to show footage of all kinds of things to prove their point, so why not this ? Also, in no way have I said I would trust the likes of al-jizzm tv, or baghdad bob or peetah ahnet. SPECTRE the (skeptical) SPECTRE [:D] |
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I was wondering the same thing when I saw the footage. Yeah, they didn't say where it was destroyed, but I'd like clarification as well. The Russians probably already stole all the secrets to it from the manufacturers years ago here in the states, so the problem with comprimise is minimal. Codes, software, etc are automatically dumped (and there is no way to recover it) if the aircraft is shot down, crashes, etc. The chance of comprimise of any actual security items is pretty minimal. Hun ranting aside, I think it's worthy of an explanation just to know what the timeline really was when they destroyed it. As a former Army Aviator, I'm VERY interested in what happened from a professional point of view. Another thing to make you think, Greg Kelly filed some footage of them passing Iraqi burning "tanks" a few days ago as well. Guess what, it was a burning M113 and a couple of burnt out Hummvees. There was a friendly fire air attack on US troops that day, and that may be the results, but I'm of the opinion that friendly fire incidents should be the most transparant of all. And before the Hun starts whining again, I do know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. No Monday morning quarterbacking here, been there, done that. Fractricide is somehting that we all try to avoid, and something that happens, but you need the info about it and how it happened to come out in the clear to prevent further fratricide. Those people who lost loved ones deserve no less either. While I can certainly forgive Greg Kelly (not really, he's a former Marine and should know better) for misidentifying the equipment, it was right after the report with the footage of the Apache transport. Things that make you go Hmmmmm..... Ross |
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And to think I believed them rat bastards when they said we were in Baghdad. [whacko] I wouldn't worry too much about the (your boogey man's name here) getting that Apache. I just hope the Marines get it. They can put it on Display at Camp Lejune as a war trophy. That should piss off the Army. [flag] |
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Personally I dont give a rats ass about it. Do you think for a second we dont know exactly were it is? Do you think that all of htose targets on Iraq were just good guesses? We have personel on the ground in and around bagdad, have been there since before day one of the bombings. If it gets out of that town it is because we let it. If it gets into the hands of "evil doers", there is a reason. Unfortunatley, we, here at ARFCOM are not in the intel circle so we can only speculate nad feed off of what the media gives us. Hell its probally a spook driving the damm truck! CH |
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Even though the Longbow is the latest and greatest, it's been in the works since before the first gulf war. Not everything in it is hush-hush secret, and what is hush-hush probably got a visit from Mr Thermite or Willy Pete. It's hard to reverse engineer a metal box with a big hole burnt through it. The MMW eyeball and the hellfires are present, but we have no idea if the guts that make them work is still intact. When the spy plane had to land in China, every piece of secret squirrel issue gear was either tossed overboard or had a hammer taken to it, if not some other form of anti-tamper techniques applied. |
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Post from Ross - Hun ranting aside, I think it's worthy of an explanation just to know what the timeline really was when they destroyed it. Great! When the War is concluded, I am certain we'll all get the entire scoop! Can you wait for, say, 20 or 30 minutes? [:D] As a former Army Aviator, I'm VERY interested in what happened from a professional point of view. That's very laudable. Now, from a professional point of view, do you have any reason to believe that the two US Servicemen aboard the chopper did [u]not[/u] execute their orders to destroy sensitive electronic equipment if threatened with capture? Any reason at all? That, and that alone, would be the only reason for fearing that the chopper fell into Iraqi hands! Whether the US Military lied to us will not be a matter which we will likely be able to agree upon anytime in the near future. Eric The(SkepticalOfSkeptics)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: Ok, I have seen the light....I will never question what our government says again. I will tow the party line and cheer as the information is presented. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....he's your friend. I didn't believe you could be so easily turned! Don't cash that check yet! Your handlers might decide to make it for a smaller amount. Eric The(Sassier'N'Hell)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: Remember the Apache that crashed early in the war that we had supposedly destroyed so that they couldn't play with it? Well I saw some of the video they had with Saddam doing his walk-about in Baghdad and somewhere in there I saw a clip of a flat bed truck in Baghdad carying the Apache! WTF??? Later, Brian Stirling Hmm....that would be proof that saddam is in fact alive and kickin'. Wonder how Command missed that one ??!?? |
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Quoted: Post from Ross - Hun ranting aside, I think it's worthy of an explanation just to know what the timeline really was when they destroyed it. Great! When the War is concluded, I am certain we'll all get the entire scoop! Can you wait for, say, 20 or 30 minutes? [:D] As a former Army Aviator, I'm VERY interested in what happened from a professional point of view. That's very laudable. Now, from a professional point of view, do you have any reason to believe that the two US Servicemen aboard the chopper did [u]not[/u] execute their orders to destroy sensitive electronic equipment if threatened with capture? Any reason at all? That, and that alone, would be the only reason for fearing that the chopper fell into Iraqi hands! Whether the US Military lied to us will not be a matter which we will likely be able to agree upon anytime in the near future. Eric The(SkepticalOfSkeptics)Hun[>]:)] I can actually wait a couple years to find out. As I pointed out in my original post, there's no way that they could have gotten anything truly sensitive out of the aircraft, but I guess you just missed that[;)] As far as the aircrew goes, I can probably tell you EXACTLY what they did, but I'm sure not going to do that as alot of it's classified. Suffice to say, (as I said in my first post, which you have obivously not read properly) -"Codes, software, etc are automatically dumped (and there is no way to recover it) if the aircraft is shot down, crashes, etc. The chance of comprimise of any actual security items is pretty minimal" - I'm not getting more sepcific than that, sorry. Some things even a lawyer doesn't have a need to know [:)] What's with all the ranting Hun? I think it's a pretty valid question. I never said I need an answer now. Though after being in the military for ten years, I'm not going just swallow everything they say automatically at face value as you seem to be willing to. While Baghdad Bob is spewing more spin than a gyroscope, I'm not going to blindly believe the US govt either. But that's the beauty of living here. I don't need to worry about it. I noticed in the first Gulf War at the Battle of Kaffji, the military touted several burnt out armoured cars as "Iraqi armored vehciles" when it was plain to me that they were V150s from the Royal Saudi forces. Again, maybe simple misidentification, but it should make you think at least. Ross (the truth is out there) of VA |
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Quoted: SPECTRE, glad to see you've been indoctrinated to never, ever question authority ever again. Even certain mods. Yes. A lot of folks need to learn that lesson [:)] The brownshirt meetings begin next month. I am certain that you wouldn't miss them for the world, or, der ganzen Welt, if you please! If you can't stand the heat.... Eric The(Etc.,Etc.,Etc.)Hun[>]:)] |
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It seems to me to be two different Apaches. In one frame you have a Apache with the Rotors deployed on a flatbed turning a corner, the next frame shows a flatbed driving away, [b]and the Apache has its rotors in the STORED position, like they do when they are transported by ship.[/b] I bet that these are pics of Apaches being transported from the docks and the Iraqi's got a hold of them and are using them as propaganda. Seem to work as a bunch of ya'll fell for it hook, line and sinker. Just my .02 |
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Post from Ross - I'm not getting more sepcific than that, sorry. Some things even a lawyer doesn't have a need to know I don't need anything more specific than this, my dear man, I firmly believe that the crew aboard the Apache did what duty required them to do. Nothing could make me doubt that for a minute. What's with all the ranting Hun? When others rant, I rant back. Is that simple enough? When others imply that the US Military is bald-faced lying, I am the one that gives them the benefit of the doubt. And in every case so far, the other side has fallen flat on its face! There is no reason to believe that this story has anything other than a similar, satisfying denoument! I think it's a pretty valid question. I never said I need an answer now. Though after being in the military for ten years, I'm not going just swallow everything they say automatically at face value as you seem to be willing to. I seem to be willing to give the US Military the benefit of the doubt. Why not? If [u]you[/u] want to swallow something else, go right ahead, but consider the source. While Baghdad Bob is spewing more spin than a gyroscope, I'm not going to blindly believe the US govt either. But that's the beauty of living here. I don't need to worry about it. You don't have to believe the 'US govt' lot, stock, and barrel, either. Just believe that the US Military is taking care of business in Iraq. Period. If an Apache Longbow helicopter is reported downed on March 23, and on March 26, the Pentagon says that 'Coalition forces' destroyed the helicopter 'overnight', I would tend to think that the helicopter [u]was[/u] destroyed wherever it happened to be located more than 48 hours later! Why? Because there would be no reason for the US Military, or 'Coalition forces', not to have destroyed it within that time period! But if you are cool with the idea that we are continuing to stumble along, bumbling, in the conduct of this War, and then lying about it, then that's certainly your right! Eric The(AsIt'sMineToThinkOtherwise)Hun[>]:)] |
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The Keyhole sitting above Iraq would have watched the whole event down to the quality of the man driving the truck's shave. If we wanted it gone, it's gone. If we wanted it taken to some research facility it was tracked - an electronic trojan horse possibly? The Iraqi military were the electronic idiots who operated high speed copy machines that emailed their GPS location home for later bombing ... and a few other things possibly? |
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Quoted: It seems to me to be two different Apaches. In one frame you have a Apache with the Rotors deployed on a flatbed turning a corner, the next frame shows a flatbed driving away, [b]and the Apache has its rotors in the STORED position, like they do when they are transported by ship.[/b] I bet that these are pics of Apaches being transported from the docks and the Iraqi's got a hold of them and are using them as propaganda. Seem to work as a bunch of ya'll fell for it hook, line and sinker. Just my .02 No, I'm pretty sure it's the same aircraft. Same markings. Also the blades fold for transport by simply pulling out one pin, and folding them back. That's part of the design and it's pretty common knowledge to other nation's militaries. I was not suprised to see it in that configuration. If they didn't know it, they could have easily gotten the info from the Russian military attache. It's certainly NOT a picture of one of ours at a port. We actually transport them with the blades off to prevent damage. When you fold the blades back the hinge takes too much stress and fails. We had a kit that supported the blade tips over the tail boom. When you use it, you fold all four blades, not just two as shown in the footage. The kit itself was junk and thrown away long ago as it put too much weight over the tail boom and caused cracks. When the Army transports them, we just take the four blades off, and strap them to the sides of the aircraft. It certainly isn't a picture of us transporting the aircraft. Ross |
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Quoted: The Keyhole sitting above Iraq would have watched the whole event down to the quality of the man driving the truck's shave. If we wanted it gone, it's gone. If we wanted it taken to some research facility it was tracked - an electronic trojan horse possibly? The Iraqi military were the electronic idiots who operated high speed copy machines that emailed their GPS location home for later bombing ... and a few other things possibly? See? Now that's the answer of someone who knows whereof he speaks. The photos taken of the movement of that Apache helicopter were taken from a Russian website. If the Russkis knew where it was, we sure as hell knew where it was! Sometimes y'all just need to be reminded of such things. Eric The(Thankful)Hun[>]:)] |