[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why Trump Matters (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/29/2015 9:02:51 AM EDT
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game.
I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. |
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Quoted: Trump, if nothing else, has demonstrated that the majority of republicans want nothing to do with amnesty. He brought immigration to the forefront. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? |
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. I suspect you will see a Rubio/Clinton debate instead. |
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. Trump is great at stirring the pot on both sides of the isle thats for sure....glad he did....I don't really want him as POTUS however and would prefer Cruz over all the other "suspects".... 
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Your grandkids will thank you for that once the Supreme Court is completely filled with Democratic picks  Quoted:
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Trump is the murder weapon that we're going to use to kill the GOP. You lost me, Aimless...do you mean the direction it's headed right now? 
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Trump blew up the center pillar of the Bush campaign by proudly rejecting PC and saying what the Republican base was really thinking about immigration, then Bush pissed away vast amounts of time and ammunition counterattacking Trump and accomplished absolutely nothing. Jeb limped away from that fight probably already mortally wounded and made a last ditch attempt to take down Rubio instead, last night he died trying. I credit Trump for saving us from the semi-permanent Bush administration, and probably putting the kibosh on amnesty if any Republican wins.
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You lost me, Aimless...do you mean the direction it's headed right now?
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Trump is the murder weapon that we're going to use to kill the GOP. You lost me, Aimless...do you mean the direction it's headed right now?
What I can only guess he's getting at is that a civil war within the Republican party would at this point secure Democratic control for the foreseeable future, and with a number of SCOTUS vacancies on the horizon would mean a giant shit sandwich for us all to nibble on. |
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I think that's a good point. There is a lot of thought from GOP wonks that the GOP cannot survive in the long run without gaining more hispanic voters, and demographics may bear that out, but there is a disconnect between a lot of GOP primary voters and wonks on throwing in the towel in amnesty in the hopes (I suspect false) of gaining hispanic voters. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? Quoted:
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Trump, if nothing else, has demonstrated that the majority of republicans want nothing to do with amnesty. He brought immigration to the forefront. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? women vote security. fiscal security will come second to physical security. highlighting that we are importing the most violent gangs in central America will resonate. Never mind the fact that fiscal security comes from a healthy economy. fixing voter fraud, illegal immigration and creating jobs will resonate. if it doesn't, well, stick a fork in her boys, we are dead anyway. |
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Your grandkids will thank you for that once the Supreme Court is completely filled with Democratic picks Quoted:
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Trump is the murder weapon that we're going to use to kill the GOP. Well, then the GOP-e should have been better. That's not the failure of trump or the voters, that's the bullshit brought to us by a party that wants to try to force another good ol boy down our throats by manipulation rather than by going after things the voters actually want them to go after. All trump did was bring issues to the forefront while not sounding like another pol gasbag. That's it. If people flock to that, it's a sign that there is a disconnect between the voter and the party. And the system is designed to rely on input from the governed, it is the failure of the party, not the voter. THEY work for US, not the other way around. Nobody is due my vote, they have to earn it. |
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How does Trump not being in the race put Bush above Carson who is polling in 2nd place? Simple. Carson is the outsider foil to Trump. Trump is bombast and the happy warrior and Cason, though measured and reserved, is recognized and respected as the no nonsense genius he is. Were it not for Trump, Carson (as the lone outsider....I don't count that mean woman) would be at the kiddy table or long gone by now. |
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I suspect you will see a Rubio/Clinton debate instead. Quoted:
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. I suspect you will see a Rubio/Clinton debate instead. I think Rubio slit his own throat the other day with his temper tantrum, the fact that he isn't interested in representing his constituants, his dismal attendance/voting record, and his "president or nothing" attitude. |
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women vote security. fiscal security will come second to physical security. highlighting that we are importing the most violent gangs in central America will resonate. Never mind the fact that fiscal security comes from a healthy economy. fixing voter fraud, illegal immigration and creating jobs will resonate. if it doesn't, well, stick a fork in her boys, we are dead anyway. Quoted:
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Trump, if nothing else, has demonstrated that the majority of republicans want nothing to do with amnesty. He brought immigration to the forefront. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? women vote security. fiscal security will come second to physical security. highlighting that we are importing the most violent gangs in central America will resonate. Never mind the fact that fiscal security comes from a healthy economy. fixing voter fraud, illegal immigration and creating jobs will resonate. if it doesn't, well, stick a fork in her boys, we are dead anyway. Agree. One of the things killing the GOP (and the US) is this lame compromise behavior. Mostly when we know we are dealing with psychos that are not in this "game" for coexistence. It's them and their way or highway. The line has been crossed a long time ago. ETA: I'm still voting for Cruz. 
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I think Rubio slit his own throat the other day with his temper tantrum, the fact that he isn't interested in representing his constituants, his dismal attendance/voting record, and his "president or nothing" attitude. Quoted:
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. I suspect you will see a Rubio/Clinton debate instead. I think Rubio slit his own throat the other day with his temper tantrum, the fact that he isn't interested in representing his constituants, his dismal attendance/voting record, and his "president or nothing" attitude. Meh. I think the GOP EMS team will go to heroic efforts to patch him up and make it all better. Bush is, or so I think, and I suspect the RNC thinks as well, is not a contender, and they are *not* going to allow one of the outsiders to get the nod, so they have no other option but Rubio. I know it's early days yet, but that's my prediction. If anything, I'm less confident about the second half of my prediction---the DNC has to know how critical women tend to be of other women (not trying to be an ass here, just making an observation,) and has to be feeling at least a little worried about how the 30+ female vote will break with Clinton at the head of the ticket. |
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I think that's a good point. There is a lot of thought from GOP wonks that the GOP cannot survive in the long run without gaining more hispanic voters, and demographics may bear that out, but there is a disconnect between a lot of GOP primary voters and wonks on throwing in the towel in amnesty in the hopes (I suspect false) of gaining hispanic voters. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? Of the four serious Republican contenders two are hispanic, one is black, and the one non-minority is surprisingly popular with blacks. The two serious Democratic contenders are white as snow, both are unpopular with black voters, and neither has an especially close relationship with hispanics. The GOP has the edge on racial identity politics for once with tough, non-token candidates, at least three of whom are capable of destroying the Dem candidate in debates. There's an excellent chance that the next President will be a Republican with a ton of minority appeal which will give the GOP plenty of opportunity to build bridges to the electorate without erasing our borders. |
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. In a prefect world Cruz would be our guy, but I am afraid that the demographics of this nation will no longer allow the election of a conservative. Trump is just so painful to listen too, the man just seems incapable of putting together a string of coherrent thoughts. He says the same things two and three times while responding to a questions. I listened to him answer a few questions from Hannity and it is so painful. |
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In a prefect world Cruz would be our guy, but I am afraid that the demographics of this nation will no longer allow the election of a conservative. Trump is just so painful to listen too, the man just seems incapable of putting together a string of coherrent thoughts. He says the same things two and three times while responding to a questions. I listened to him answer a few questions from Hannity and it is so painful. Quoted:
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. In a prefect world Cruz would be our guy, but I am afraid that the demographics of this nation will no longer allow the election of a conservative. Trump is just so painful to listen too, the man just seems incapable of putting together a string of coherrent thoughts. He says the same things two and three times while responding to a questions. I listened to him answer a few questions from Hannity and it is so painful. he's pitching his message to a very wide audience, 50% of the population has an IQ of <100. This is a very effective way of communicating in a way they understand, their vote matters just as much as yours. Trump didn't get to turn a couple of million into a couple of billion by accident, nor did he do it by investing in cattle futures. |
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Question I have is what effect will Trump have on the other elections and those who would run. Fed, state and local might get interesting.
With the repubs push back at the media last night, will it influence other candidates who might not have run knowing how the msm was cheerleader dems, now decide to get into a race? |
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I think that's a good point. There is a lot of thought from GOP wonks that the GOP cannot survive in the long run without gaining more hispanic voters, and demographics may bear that out, but there is a disconnect between a lot of GOP primary voters and wonks on throwing in the towel in amnesty in the hopes (I suspect false) of gaining hispanic voters. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? Quoted:
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Trump, if nothing else, has demonstrated that the majority of republicans want nothing to do with amnesty. He brought immigration to the forefront. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? Don't understand how the dems and media get away with the "white man's" party crap. Dems are showcasing old white people as their only choices. Repubs have variety of background's and color. And I'm not sure I'd call hitlery a woman. It would insult real women and I don't want to do that. |
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And he carries his gun a lot..sometimes. He likes to be unpredictable. Whatever. You have to be one of the elites to get a carry permit there. So he got one. Whatever. If I lived in NYC and knew the right guy, I'd get one, too. I don't really hold that against him considering that a) he didn't make the policies up there and b) everything he has said during this campaign suggests that he wants everyone else to allowed to carry, everywhere. |
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Whatever. If I lived in NYC and knew the right guy, I'd get one, too. I don't really hold that against him considering that a) he didn't make the policies up there and b) everything he has said during this campaign suggests that he wants everyone else to allowed to carry, everywhere. Quoted:
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And he carries his gun a lot..sometimes. He likes to be unpredictable. Whatever. You have to be one of the elites to get a carry permit there. So he got one. Whatever. If I lived in NYC and knew the right guy, I'd get one, too. I don't really hold that against him considering that a) he didn't make the policies up there and b) everything he has said during this campaign suggests that he wants everyone else to allowed to carry, everywhere. Except his properties.
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Except his properties.
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And he carries his gun a lot..sometimes. He likes to be unpredictable. Whatever. You have to be one of the elites to get a carry permit there. So he got one. Whatever. If I lived in NYC and knew the right guy, I'd get one, too. I don't really hold that against him considering that a) he didn't make the policies up there and b) everything he has said during this campaign suggests that he wants everyone else to allowed to carry, everywhere. Except his properties.
Well, some of them anyway. There's Trump winery here in VA, I don't recall seeing or hearing about any "No Guns" signs there. |
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I don't get where this "conservatives can't win" comes from except from Democrat pollsters. Let's look at recent history. 1. 1980. Reagan is our most conservative candidate in recent history and wins. 2. 1984. Reagan again. 3. 1988. Bush I runs as Reagan's third term, wins. 4. 1992. After having governed as a moderate, Bush I loses. 5. 1996. Bob Dole runs as moderate, loses. 6. 2000. Bush II runs as conservative, wins. 7. 2004. Bush II again runs as conservative, wins. 8. 2008. McCain runs as moderate, loses. 9. 2012. Romney runs as moderate, loses. Where are these crushing victories we're supposed to get from running a moderate? |
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Trump is great at stirring the pot on both sides of the isle thats for sure....glad he did....I don't really want him as POTUS however and would prefer Cruz over all the other "suspects"....
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. Trump is great at stirring the pot on both sides of the isle thats for sure....glad he did....I don't really want him as POTUS however and would prefer Cruz over all the other "suspects"....
I don't want to see Trump as POTUS either, but I think he would be one hell of a VP. A loud mouth, in your face, shit talker. But we need a smart, calm, cool headed President to balance him out. Carson/Trump Cruz/Trump |
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Quoted: I don't want to see Trump as POTUS either, but I think he would be one hell of a VP. A loud mouth, in your face, shit talker. But we need a smart, calm, cool headed President to balance him out. Carson/Trump Cruz/Trump Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. Trump is great at stirring the pot on both sides of the isle thats for sure....glad he did....I don't really want him as POTUS however and would prefer Cruz over all the other "suspects".... I don't want to see Trump as POTUS either, but I think he would be one hell of a VP. A loud mouth, in your face, shit talker. But we need a smart, calm, cool headed President to balance him out. Carson/Trump Cruz/Trump |
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I don't get where this "conservatives can't win" comes from except from Democrat pollsters. Let's look at recent history. 1. 1980. Reagan is our most conservative candidate in recent history and wins. 2. 1984. Reagan again. 3. 1988. Bush I runs as Reagan's third term, wins. 4. 1992. After having governed as a moderate, Bush I loses. 5. 1996. Bob Dole runs as moderate, loses. 6. 2000. Bush II runs as conservative, wins. 7. 2004. Bush II again runs as conservative, wins. 8. 2008. McCain runs as moderate, loses. 9. 2012. Romney runs as moderate, loses. Where are these crushing victories we're supposed to get from running a moderate?
I have some difficulty putting Bush II in the "conservative" category. 
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I think that's a good point. There is a lot of thought from GOP wonks that the GOP cannot survive in the long run without gaining more hispanic voters, and demographics may bear that out, but there is a disconnect between a lot of GOP primary voters and wonks on throwing in the towel in amnesty in the hopes (I suspect false) of gaining hispanic voters. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? Quoted:
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Trump, if nothing else, has demonstrated that the majority of republicans want nothing to do with amnesty. He brought immigration to the forefront. It may be the GOP is just doomed as angry white dudes dominate the primaries in presidential elections but lack the ability to win presidential elections. If the GOP loses most women and pretty much everyone but white guys can they be anything but a permanent minority party? Does that matter if they become "Democrat Lite" in order to stay relevant? The GOP has to appeal to Latino voters if there is to be a future for the GOP...there is no question about that. Despite fantasies to the contrary, there will never be a mass deportation, and we've already reached critical mass regarding the children of illegals and establishing a path to citizenship. Like it, hate it, reality is reality. The error is in just cowtowing to amnesty. Amnesty simply gifts the Dems a ready made voter base, and the media will credit the Dems for it anyways cementing that. The GOP instead should be looking to address it with much more targeted pathways to citizenship (military service and whatnot) and focusing their efforts on swaying Latino voters on fiscal and social issues. Amnesty grants the Dems the voter base THEY want...by a more limited pathway like work visas, military service, whatnot the GOP can refine these new citizens by only allowing the type that will trend GOP...weed out the freeloaders and let in the productive members who will give a shit about their taxes. Rubio touched on it last night...you only want to greenlight people who want to be Americans, not simply be in America. Sorry, just being a realist. ETA: The GOP does a shitty job of marketing. Their emphasis should be on explaining to new latino voters that the Dems represent the policies which made their former homes into the shitholes they fled...conservative values are what made America the capitalist powerhouse they ran to for a new life. Don't help turn it into Mexico, etc. |
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Well, then the GOP-e should have been better. That's not the failure of trump or the voters, that's the bullshit brought to us by a party that wants to try to force another good ol boy down our throats by manipulation rather than by going after things the voters actually want them to go after. All trump did was bring issues to the forefront while not sounding like another pol gasbag. That's it. If people flock to that, it's a sign that there is a disconnect between the voter and the party. And the system is designed to rely on input from the governed, it is the failure of the party, not the voter. THEY work for US, not the other way around. Nobody is due my vote, they have to earn it. Quoted:
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Trump is the murder weapon that we're going to use to kill the GOP. Well, then the GOP-e should have been better. That's not the failure of trump or the voters, that's the bullshit brought to us by a party that wants to try to force another good ol boy down our throats by manipulation rather than by going after things the voters actually want them to go after. All trump did was bring issues to the forefront while not sounding like another pol gasbag. That's it. If people flock to that, it's a sign that there is a disconnect between the voter and the party. And the system is designed to rely on input from the governed, it is the failure of the party, not the voter. THEY work for US, not the other way around. Nobody is due my vote, they have to earn it. BOOM. Right there. Ted Cruz spoke to it well. The GOPe doesn't give a shit what American voters want, and Trump is just speaking to it plainly in an anti-PC way that's resonating with people tired of the bullshit. 
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John Kasich (Who voted for the 1994 Clinton gun ban) was on Fox News this morning attacking Trump and proclaiming no one will ever deport illegal aliens. Who really wants John Kasich (who voted for the 1994 Clinton gun ban) as our next president?
Or Chris Christie? Who started his first political campaign by vowing to pass a gun ban? Or Ben Carson, who only thinks you should own a gun if you live in a rural area? |
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In a prefect world Cruz would be our guy, but I am afraid that the demographics of this nation will no longer allow the election of a conservative. Trump is just so painful to listen too, the man just seems incapable of putting together a string of coherrent thoughts. He says the same things two and three times while responding to a questions. I listened to him answer a few questions from Hannity and it is so painful. Quoted:
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. In a prefect world Cruz would be our guy, but I am afraid that the demographics of this nation will no longer allow the election of a conservative. Trump is just so painful to listen too, the man just seems incapable of putting together a string of coherrent thoughts. He says the same things two and three times while responding to a questions. I listened to him answer a few questions from Hannity and it is so painful. That's Trump's weakness, IMO.... his "stream of consciousness" speaking style. Granted he brings up some very important issues, but he needs to follow through on the initial thoughts a bit. Like exactly how he will make Mexico pay for the border wall. Sounds good. How you going to do it, especially without Congressional support? |
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I have some difficulty putting Bush II in the "conservative" category. Quoted:
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I don't get where this "conservatives can't win" comes from except from Democrat pollsters. Let's look at recent history. 1. 1980. Reagan is our most conservative candidate in recent history and wins. 2. 1984. Reagan again. 3. 1988. Bush I runs as Reagan's third term, wins. 4. 1992. After having governed as a moderate, Bush I loses. 5. 1996. Bob Dole runs as moderate, loses. 6. 2000. Bush II runs as conservative, wins. 7. 2004. Bush II again runs as conservative, wins. 8. 2008. McCain runs as moderate, loses. 9. 2012. Romney runs as moderate, loses. Where are these crushing victories we're supposed to get from running a moderate?
I have some difficulty putting Bush II in the "conservative" category. Ran as a conservative. Governed as a ridiculously big-spending, big government moderate. |
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We've been calling for a candidate to challenge the good old boy GOPe cabal for years. Someone finally come along amd does just that, and for GD, he's just not perfect enough.
For me, it's enough to see the GOPe squealing and squirming. Non-career politican candidates are garnering over half the primary vote (~55% right now), that's significant. Fuck.them.all. |
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That's Trump's weakness, IMO.... his "stream of consciousness" speaking style. Granted he brings up some very important issues, but he needs to follow through on the initial thoughts a bit. Like exactly how he will make Mexico pay for the border wall. Sounds good. How you going to do it, especially without Congressional support? That's his weakness for people that pay enough attention to politics, which is a small minority of people. For "everybody else", they don't care - it's about 'What can you do for me, and spare me the boring details?'. If Trump loses, I think it will be because "everybody else" gets bored with him. If you're going to ride the populist highway to the White House, you have to keep the interest level up. His speeches, though, are mostly the same things we've been hearing since August, which he readily admits from time to time. To use a reality show metaphor: Trump is playing re-runs of Season 1 of his campaign, and people will lose interest unless he starts up Season 2. |
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Would Trump take the VP spot? Quoted:
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If he were not in the race, Bush would be in his place on the top; withTrump in Bush stays where he is. Because of him we get to hear from all of the rest of the candidates; it is clear to anyone with any intellect whatsoever that our lower tier candidates are far superior to any thing the left has in the game. I pray that I get to see a Cruz/Hilary debate. Trump is great at stirring the pot on both sides of the isle thats for sure....glad he did....I don't really want him as POTUS however and would prefer Cruz over all the other "suspects"....
I don't want to see Trump as POTUS either, but I think he would be one hell of a VP. A loud mouth, in your face, shit talker. But we need a smart, calm, cool headed President to balance him out. Carson/Trump Cruz/Trump Never. And no other candidate would be crazy enough to pick him as VP. |
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We've been calling for a candidate to challenge the good old boy GOPe cabal for years. Someone finally come along amd does just that, and for GD, he's just not perfect enough. For me, it's enough to see the GOPe squealing and squirming. Non-career politican candidates are garnering over half the primary vote (~55% right now), that's significant. Fuck.them.all. Not only that he has caused Bush to implode. He's pretty much on a death watch now after last evening. |