[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Explain engine tuning to me (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/25/2015 8:55:57 PM EDT
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Ordered a new car recently and am patiently awaiting delivery of it. I've done some reading on "tuning" and how to get more WHP out of the car. I don't feel comfortable bringing my new car to a pro-tuner for work. Is there anything I can do to the car to add more performance? It is my understanding that no matter how much cash I dump into it (buying an aftermarket exhaust, headers, air intake, etc) I would still have to get it tuned to have any realized gains. I am considering picking up a Cobb stage 2 package with Accessport, but will this help me avoid a stranger working on the ECU of my new car? Please school me. |
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Modern engines run damn lean to meet emissions testing.
They also make maximum power to meet advertising demands. If you add parts that will allow more air flow, you need to meet that with more fuel. Horsepower isn't magic, it's fuel burned. That will require a tune to dump more fuel in to take advantage of these new parts. |
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Modern engines run damn lean to meet emissions testing. They also make maximum power to meet advertising demands. If you add parts that will allow more air flow, you need to meet that with more fuel. Horsepower isn't magic, it's fuel burned. That will require a tune to dump more fuel in to take advantage of these new parts. All of this. Plus, some manufacturers like Ford put in bullshit like "Torque Management" that reduces performance for the sake of reducing warranty claims. |
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Quoted: This BUT .. I believe subaru might sell a bunch of factory parts and a tune. Id look into it Quoted: Quoted: A smart man waits until 1) finance company no longer owns it 2) all the warranties have expired This BUT .. I believe subaru might sell a bunch of factory parts and a tune. Id look into it |
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Quoted: Modern engines run damn lean to meet emissions testing. They also make maximum power to meet advertising demands. If you add parts that will allow more air flow, you need to meet that with more fuel. Horsepower isn't magic, it's fuel burned. That will require a tune to dump more fuel in to take advantage of these new parts. Does anyone have any experience with Cobb? |
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You tune an engine to aquire the perfect mixture and amount of air and fuel into the cylinders. The tune should be specific to your exhaust, intake, valves, and cam. |
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They do sell some factory parts. Like a "performance catback exhaust" but they charge $1500 for it. Besides the high price, new pipes would do nothin but make it sound louder. Now if they sold it with headers I'd be interested. Quoted:
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A smart man waits until 1) finance company no longer owns it 2) all the warranties have expired This BUT .. I believe subaru might sell a bunch of factory parts and a tune. Id look into it Depends. Turbo cars with restrictive stock exhaust actually pick up a good amount of power with a catback, intake, and tune. You're going to need a tune regardless, though. Cobb has a good reputation. If you don't mind voiding your warranty, give it a shot. |
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Yes, a tune will be required to get the most out of many things you would bolt on. You should find a website dedicated to the WRX and start reading up, I've read the ft86 website for the BRZ and learned a ton. Some tunes you can do yourself by buying the tools to flash the ECU yourself, and you can probably get some WHP just from the tune.
Myself, I'm not in a hurry to void my warranty just yet. |
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Quoted: They do sell some factory parts. Like a "performance catback exhaust" but they charge $1500 for it. Besides the high price, new pipes would do nothin but make it sound louder. Now if they sold it with headers I'd be interested. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A smart man waits until 1) finance company no longer owns it 2) all the warranties have expired This BUT .. I believe subaru might sell a bunch of factory parts and a tune. Id look into it Do you know for sure that it wouldn't increase power? Larger exhaust on a turbo car can be a huge power maker. |
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You may see some slight HP gains from bolt ons (cold air intake, exhaust) but not much.
Turbo motors react very favorably to PCM reprogramming which basically bump up boost and fuel trim, but stock cams valves fuel injectors and fuel pumps can only handle so much. Do a lot of reading and stick with reliable tuners for your car, don't let billy bobs turbo shop go programming on your PCM and then watch the motor grenade. If you are going to keep stock internals, and fuel system you should go with a hand held tuner that is plug and play (you just hook it into the ODB port and upload the tune) and exhaust and intake mods. You really don't need to take it to someone to actually tune it unless you are changing internals/fuel system. I have a new Ecoboost Mustang. I can buy exhaust and cold air intake systems from Ford Performance parts without voiding the warranty, and Ford is working on a tune for it. I'm an ex tech at a Ford dealer and can get it all installed for free with receipts to keep the warranty on it, Subaru may also offer mods that will not void the warranty. |
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Quoted: Ordered a new car recently and am patiently awaiting delivery of it. I've done some reading on "tuning" and how to get more WHP out of the car. I don't feel comfortable bringing my new car to a pro-tuner for work. Is there anything I can do to the car to add more performance? It is my understanding that no matter how much cash I dump into it (buying an aftermarket exhaust, headers, air intake, etc) I would still have to get it tuned to have any realized gains. I am considering picking up a Cobb stage 2 package with Accessport, but will this help me avoid a stranger working on the ECU of my new car? Please school me. |
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Quoted: Yes, a tune will be required to get the most out of many things you would bolt on. You should find a website dedicated to the WRX and start reading up, I've read the ft86 website for the BRZ and learned a ton. Some tunes you can do yourself by buying the tools to flash the ECU yourself, and you can probably get some WHP just from the tune. Myself, I'm not in a hurry to void my warranty just yet. |
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Quoted: Do you know for sure that it wouldn't increase power? Larger exhaust on a turbo car can be a huge power maker. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A smart man waits until 1) finance company no longer owns it 2) all the warranties have expired This BUT .. I believe subaru might sell a bunch of factory parts and a tune. Id look into it Do you know for sure that it wouldn't increase power? Larger exhaust on a turbo car can be a huge power maker. |
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Quoted: Those come from the factory needing a smog pump delete and a tune. The EJ257 isn't the most efficient pancake, and subaru has to do some wonky shit to make emissions. Really lean under boost just after tip in, and a nasty stumble at OL/CL cross over. |
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A smart man waits until 1) finance company no longer owns it 2) all the warranties have expired This BUT .. I believe subaru might sell a bunch of factory parts and a tune. Id look into it Do you know for sure that it wouldn't increase power? Larger exhaust on a turbo car can be a huge power maker. 
It doesn't have to. It's well known that turbo/FI cars benefit from a more free flowing exhaust system. I'm not sure how good the stock exhaust is, but most of the time it's not the greatest for performance. Again, you'll need a tune to make the most of it. |
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My last car was a 2013 WRX. I traded it in on a 2015 Ecoboost Mustang.
When I bought the Subaru, I did a solid bit of research into mods, without ever doing any. That is not the case with the mustang. IMO, Cobb is solid. I won't be using Cobb for my tune, but I will be using their accessport. Reason being, Cobb doesn't seem to have alot of experience with Ford, but the Ford tuners like the accessport. Being a Subaru, I couldn't recommend against a Cobb tune given what I have read. |
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My advice regardless what kind of car you're dealing with.
If you don't feel comfortable with a "pro" working on it, you should see some of the shit I've seen amateurs cause, including and/or especially owners. Any number of shops dealing with your specific vehicle. People who know what they're doing and don't blow people's shit up, don't work cheap. Go to forums and research, talk to other owners, attend events. Don't spend money until you know what you want to do with it; mild, wild or somewhere in between. |
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How much scratch do you have to throw at it? And getting a pro to do it is a damn good idea.
My 06 WRX has a Cobb Accessport and a stage 2 off the shelf tune tune with supporting mods. edited to add. It looks like the Cobb Stage 3 kit, which is about $3700 will get you 24% more horsepower and 40% more torque. You will need to swap injectors and fuel pump, a PITA but not impossible to do yourself. It has an off the shelf map to match the modifications. |
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Modern engines run damn lean to meet emissions testing. They also make maximum power to meet advertising demands. If you add parts that will allow more air flow, you need to meet that with more fuel. Horsepower isn't magic, it's fuel burned. That will require a tune to dump more fuel in to take advantage of these new parts. more air in,more air out....that shits gotta go out a fart box, ya know? |
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Stop the insanity.
You don't even fucking own it and you want to do performance shit to it. 
Here's my advice. Buy the car. Get the car. Break it in. Drive it. Write down what you like and don't like about the car. "It drives great in the parking lot" "When getting on the freeway in second gear and the turbo comes onto boost right when the wastegate shuts there's a stumble" "It seems to run out of power right before redline" Then go to the forums that support your vehicle and go ask the experts that make performance stuff for your car. Go to some autocrosses and talk to the owners of cars like yours and see what they are doing for racing. Make small inexpensive proven mods to your vehicle, one step at a time. OR... Just buy everything in the JC Whitney catalog for your car and have the cheapest mechanic at Walmart install the shit. |
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I've had one for 9 years that has been tuned and have had no issues. Quoted:
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OP needs to get in touch with Chase45 or find his thread about how much it cost him to fix his "tuned" Subaru. It cost him dearly.  I've had one for 9 years that has been tuned and have had no issues. He also had a chick allegedly shit on him. Let's not use chase45 as a metric for normalcy in this world. Cars, or sexual endeavors |
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Okay, so I have owned a WRX for eight years now with a Cobb accessport. I love my stage 2 tune, fattened up the whole powerband and improved the car in every possible way.
They're quite reputable, since your engine hasn't changed much in 12 years there's a ton of testing that's been done and Cobb revises maps pretty regularly. The tunes are very conservative, meaning you're going to be leaving some power on the table, but they're very reliable. EJ engines like ours don't really take any reliability, longevity or driveability hit unless you go past stage 2. Their maps for my car had been revised four times already before I flashed my '02. The Cobb downpipe is nice too. You might want to wait until you're out of warranty, to be safe. I run euro-spec 0w40 synthetic M1, I'd recommend against running energy conserving 5w30 oil in your Sti. See what you can get away with without voiding your warranty though. 'Gratz on the Sti. I've often wished they'd offered the Sti bugeye wagons in the US, that's my grail. |
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I'd rather have a professional that knows what they're doing if somebody is going to start fucking with my engine. Too easy to set one thing wrong and kablooie.
The only thing I'd change with my '16 WRX is the damn rev hanging. Almost fucking impossible to get first to second right when you're taking it easy, so FUCK YOU CLUTCH LOLOLOL. 
...And maybe a Borla catback. |
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The sti is a pretty stout car. Do what these other fellas are suggesting, plus: Ditch the rear seats, upholstery, radio, a/c Stiffen everything Put the name Petter Solberg on the rear windows You'll have a winner. At which point you should have just bought an old one and built it from the ground up anyways, since it'll be damn useless for anything involving day-to-day life. |
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He also had a chick allegedly shit on him. Let's not use chase45 as a metric for normalcy in this world. Cars, or sexual endeavors Quoted:
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OP needs to get in touch with Chase45 or find his thread about how much it cost him to fix his "tuned" Subaru. It cost him dearly. I've had one for 9 years that has been tuned and have had no issues. He also had a chick allegedly shit on him. Let's not use chase45 as a metric for normalcy in this world. Cars, or sexual endeavors LOL, you have a point there. |
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At which point you should have just bought an old one and built it from the ground up anyways, since it'll be damn useless for anything involving day-to-day life. Quoted:
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The sti is a pretty stout car. Do what these other fellas are suggesting, plus: Ditch the rear seats, upholstery, radio, a/c Stiffen everything Put the name Petter Solberg on the rear windows You'll have a winner. At which point you should have just bought an old one and built it from the ground up anyways, since it'll be damn useless for anything involving day-to-day life. You're missing the point of a rally car, mang. |
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Just about anything worth doing is going to require a tune, and altering the factory calibration will void your powertrain warranty so keep that in mind. I have no problem with it will mod right away, but if it breaks I can afford to fix it.
If you are concerned about warranty issues see what the manufacturer has to offer that will leave you covered. |
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So far nobody has mentioned timing. Timing has a lot to do with power. Timing is part of the map, whole thread is about remapping the car. What happened to Chase45 had nothing to do with an OTS map and appropriate supporting mods. OP, I'd leave it alone under warranty myself, Cobb isn't going to hurt anything but you might get a warranty claim denied if there's an issue and your ECU shows a reflash. |
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You're missing the point of a rally car, mang. Quoted:
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The sti is a pretty stout car. Do what these other fellas are suggesting, plus: Ditch the rear seats, upholstery, radio, a/c Stiffen everything Put the name Petter Solberg on the rear windows You'll have a winner. At which point you should have just bought an old one and built it from the ground up anyways, since it'll be damn useless for anything involving day-to-day life. You're missing the point of a rally car, mang. Well I know the point of a rally car is to have fun in the dirt, but OP is talking about a brand new STi. 
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I get that logic, it checks out. Does anyone have any experience with Cobb? Quoted:
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Modern engines run damn lean to meet emissions testing. They also make maximum power to meet advertising demands. If you add parts that will allow more air flow, you need to meet that with more fuel. Horsepower isn't magic, it's fuel burned. That will require a tune to dump more fuel in to take advantage of these new parts. Does anyone have any experience with Cobb? I may or may not have a Focus ST tuned on a Cobb AP. Dollar for dollar, it was the best performance upgrade I've done. It was a pretty noticeable difference. Err... would have been, had I done it. Yeah, definitely haven't done that, Ford. Nothing to see here. |